Meat Me in the Bean Patch
An interesting news item appeared in my paper today: Sons born to women who ate a lot of beef during their pregnancies have a 25% below-normal sperm count and three times the normal risk of fertility problems. The problem might be due to anabolic steroids used in the US to fatten cattle. It could also be due to pesticides and other environmental contaminants. In daughters of the beef-eaters, those same hormones could alter the incidence of polycistic ovarian syndrome, the age of puberty, and the postnatal growth rate.
Six growth-producing hormones are routinely used in cattle production here and in canada. [All you Canadian beauties up there are out of luck too!] The hormones used are: estradiol, testosterone, progesterone, zeranol, trenbolone acetate, and melengestrol acetate. Does not sound appetizing.
I have always been leery of these hormones. I became a vegetarian 25 years ago because of this and many other reasons. Food intake is of such great importance, and it does seem that more awareness is developing.
The only plus is the reduced population. There's always a silver lining, is there not?
Pass the peas and beans, please.
posted by jm at 5:36 PM
81 Comments:
Five years ago, I'd have agreed with you on this. Funny how perspectives change. :o)
I'm not talking about eating meat, joe. That's just my decision. I'm talking about the chemicals. If we eat organic free range meat...different story.
My first reason was my love of animals, and their ability to feel pain. The violence, fear, and bloodshed. I felt like I was ingesting those emotions. The other reasons are secondary.
I don't speak about this often, since it is a personal decision, and I don't criticize anyone for ingesting animals. I do criticize the industry.
I suspect, however, that we will evolve toward eating what's appropriate for the environment, so more vegetarianism in the lower latitudes, where other things can grow, and this will be more efficient and cost effective.
There are always pros and cons. One important amino acid is missing without meat.
One of the reasons I moved to Colorado was an article in Esquire magazine many many years ago about a commune here called Libre.
They described the diet which included wild animals. They had a ritual in which they asked for the animal to appear who was ready to leave the material plane. They were then killed instantly. I don't know how pure these spiritual rituals were, but I was so moved, I MOVED here.
That and the only good astrological reading I've ever had. He told me...Rocky Mountains. And that I was a musician. This was after the article and I knew he was right.
Grass-fed beef if you can afford it.
That was the problem, acousticgod. On my artist's budget I couldn't afford it.
The trend is increasing, and I'm glad. Hormones shouldn't be played with.
I can't typically afford it either, and I've replaced most of my ground beef with ground turkey at this point.
I have to admit, I am a beef eater. I prefer it over pork or chicken any day.
Hey, Psst! jm! Here's a nugget!
Sat/nep, indeed...from a washington post editorial...
"...The third (reason for the republican's problems)is that the alternative reality conveyed by the Republican media -- Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and their ilk -- has created a Republican activist base that is genuinely not reality-based, and from which the current generation of Republican pols is disproportionately drawn...."
I am Happy to be proven to have dwelled in reality these many years! there was times I doubted it myself :)!
I told you I felt a Saturn return in this...I haven't an exact date, but I found something...one of those overlooked details that prove interesting only ib retrospect... Bush1 in his CIA days set up something that circa 1976-77 (sat in leo...)was called the safari club. It was an actual restaurant with a 'private' club for spooks beneath. Anyways, it's prime goal was to hook up with 1) the mujahadeen in the middle east to destabilize the place...(I suspect that,as CIA, he was able to misinform Carter, thus the failure of the 'rescue mission' in Iran at the time and the percieved weakness of the democrats...? is that too weird?...and 2) hook up with the cocaine cartels in SA.
These forces, ie: money, oil and guns, have shaped the last thirty years, and we are certainly seeing a checkpoint...and at the same time as this sat/nep? A major reality check. They have spun this fantasy wsince when they got Nixon in sat/nep '68. The damn players are the same all the way down to K Rove as the college republican cheerleader/acolyte. 76-77 they consolidate power with sat in leo, but now BOTH patterns are cycling at the same time! You probably have insight, I was alive then, but pretty young (but I remember being pissed about watergate. I've voted D ever since...) Hope you're awake tonight, I've got tea going... otherwise take care, Juno
Interesting stuff Juno.
Hi acousticgod...just been doing some history digging on Democratic Underground with astrology in mind. I've been keeping an eye on the current transit for awhile now, like any astrologer, I'm scrounging for proof of my hypothesis, lol!
juno! It's happening just like we talked about! Pelosi's doing great.
This is amazing! I just logged on. Tea's hissing right now!
I'm getting excited all over again.
Juno, you must check out the talk tseka and I had about this last week-end. I'll post the thread as soon as I get settled.
It's a tangled web. it goes back to the Yale days and the Kennedy/Kerry faction and the Bushs. Kerry comes from better pedigree, and he was an intellectual. Bush was out of the game. They have no class. Always a problem. Bush hated Kerry then.
So when Kerry almost nailed them with BCCI, they came back with a vengeance. Big mistake. They should have taken the money and run.
This is why they went after Kerry so hard. Now he is back correcting the big thing they did wrong. Maligning combat veterans. This is a definite no-no. Very very bad. Very bad.
You can't do that. Send that message to society. What if one day we have a real conflict?
This among so many mistakes they've made. It's exactly time, and now to top it all off, women are really on the rise. Strong, capable women. It's happening just according to destiny. I'm beginning to feel pride in my country again.
Republicans do like to follow an authoritarian character, and it doesn't matter how much factual basis there is to their leader's rants as long as they sound plausible. I've seen it with the usual suspects Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, etc., and I've also seen it on a small scale in a private setting. It's ironic, because they think Democrats are the ones having their opinions handed to them not realizing they're being programmed every time they tune into the news.
Yeah, women have been a big theme...I remember Barbara Hand Clow talking a lot about the possibilities for this spring...so much feminine energy!
Here's another amazing bit...the reference to "gyre' reminds me of astrological cycles...
..."But history doesn't repeat itself, not really. It is a more like a gyre (W.B. Yeats' metaphor) with repeating themes, giving us repeated opportunities to solve certain problems in the human spirit. What would Yeats--an Irish rebel--think of the startling peace accord we saw the other day, between the Protestants and the Catholics in Northern Ireland? The end of a 500 year war. The human race, on the whole, is on an upward progressive trend. And, if we don't destroy our planet--which I think may depend on restoration of democracy in the US--we are headed toward a better world, as to human progressive values (equality, social justice, higher consciousness). Our biggest problem is our very success as a species--too many people for earth's limited resources, given the global corporate predator organization of the exploitation of resources for the profit of the few. This problem--the biggest crisis that the human race has ever encountered--may override and completely smother both the many scandals of the Bushites AND the efforts of the corporate rulers to limit the damage. The biggest scandal of all may be what the Bush Junta and its corporate ruler puppetmasters have NOT DONE to prevent the loss of our planet."....
Also have seen editorial references to 'self-inflicted wounds' and unhealable wounds of various kinds...I've never really checked out where chiron is visa vis the US chart.
Thank you for the insight on the Kerry thing...god, I had no idea how "Personal" it all was. Wow.
....Hmmm tea....
Republicans do like to follow an authoritarian character
Absolutely true. They lack confidence. Full of fear.
Dems are criticized for being all over the place, but this is exactly what's good about them. They never caved into party line, and I'm so glad. Dems are not all that fond of strong leadership. They seem to be slightly more in synch with this country's personality.
I love Yeats and didn't know this phrase. thanks juno!
with repeating themes, giving us repeated opportunities to solve certain problems in the human spirit.
Yes!!! The Saturn-Uranus-Neptune theme is being repeated now. There seems to be an uptick in combining some slight spiritual aspiration with politics and society. The ongoing struggle that will never cease. But some progress has just been made.
Islam was started under a Saturn-Neptune opposition. Some interesting things are going down right now as the transit finishes.
The human race, on the whole, is on an upward progressive trend.
This is absolutely true.
too many people for earth's limited resources, given the global corporate predator organization of the exploitation of resources for the profit of the few. This problem--the biggest crisis that the human race has ever encountered--may override and completely smother both the many scandals of the Bushites AND the efforts of the corporate rulers to limit the damage.
Very very good point. I do believe it's happening. No surprise that the Kerrys' beautiful new book on the environment just came out and is selling wildly.
The personal game goes on. And the winner???????
Heheh!
The biggest scandal of all may be what the Bush Junta and its corporate ruler puppetmasters have NOT DONE to prevent the loss of our planet."....
This is a fabulous statement juno.
This is the link to our cycle talk. It's wonderful. Tseka came up with some fascinating numbers.
Cycles, History, and Now
Our biggest problem is our very success as a species--too many people for earth's limited resources
This is the real story just about to unfold. The old resources are archaic. The swan song is represented by the Bushies. The new is in the wings, and hemp is the savior! You can eat it, wear it, write on it, burn it, build homes with it, and if all else fails, just smoke it and forget about it all!
reading thru your thread right now...smoking virgos LOL, one of my best freinds is virgo (29 degrees, hit by these eclipes. She left for france on the day of the last one, I half expect she'll stay.) and what she smokes are handrolled cigarettes that are half organic tobacco and half herbal (mullien sage etc) and are so good I almost want to take up smoking again...go figure...
HEMP FOR VICTORY!
Bush has the SN in Sagittarius, and Jupiter is right there now. Pluto on his ASC led me to believe he came on board to destroy the Bush legacy. He's done a good job. it's almost complete.
At the same time we had our first Pluto transit of the USA ASC. We've been reborn, with SN Sag Bush lead us away from what we don't want to be.
This is a good time for this country, and I always thought so. Now with strong women coming into leadership we will be even better. The Equal Rights Amendment is coming back in. Barbara Boxer is reintroducing it apparently.
So we had to have Bush, and in restrospect it will be clear. He hates his family as much as we do. His 12th house cancer heavy karma did the trick. And he's simply mentally ill.
Yes! ERA! I am so happy! My mother campaigned for that back in the day...just let the assholes pull that "OHMIGOD, UNISEX BATHROOMS!" stuff agin..I mean, they happened anyway without legislation...:)
what she smokes are handrolled cigarettes that are half organic tobacco and half herbal (mullien sage etc) and are so good I almost want to take up smoking again...go figure...
Sounds great! Man has been smoking since the cave days, and he will not quit. Some people can process it. Lot's of Virgos smoke because of their nervousness. I don't have a problem with it.
I quit about 4 years ago, but I still smoke when I party. Had a few two weeks ago, and they were delish. Good party.
UNISEX BATHROOMS! Their time has come!
I'm very curious about next Dec when Jup and Pluto meet.
Me too.
...Me too....
Yes hemp! You can probably feed it to your pets, too! Then the dog food in one grocery store aisle could be sent to feed a poor third world family for a year!
We can work it out.
Very interesting.
next December, jupiter will be leaving right after the conjunction for Capricorn. Then the NN will go right onto Aquarius. Then Pluto into Capricorn.
Big changes. Saturn in Virgo. All that earth and then the air Node. Logic, government, end of hilarious Sagittarius party.
Interesting to guess what that conjunction will bring, but it's something serious. And connected to our future. Something to do with our next pres.
Wow, your thread with Tseka is fascinating...not quite done, and I will certainly go back, you're right, some heavy numbers there....
wowowowowowowow!
Yes, I feel the heaviness...It 'bodes'...I think the trick is going to be keeping the minset about saturn we've relearned all these years...he's not bad, he's constructive..time to work, as a sag I'm sorry to see the party go, but my cap planets are aching to really be practical, channeling this into constructive energy is important...
..."The oil life in the car has just been changed from an oil change every 3,000 miles to 7,500 MILES!+...
Oh thank god, I never change my oil when I 'should'...:)
I know. We really hit it. Inspired to the max.
I feel this so much with all my Sag, and the overall thing that is going on right now is revolution in the churches. the Catholic Church is finished, powerwise, and now Islam is reforming. So Pluto has done the job.
I can already feel the turn of events away from the Middle East and home to our changing political lanscape. being in the West, where the demographic is changing so dramatically, I feel it strongly. Colorado is entirely Democratic now, and the other states will follow. Look at John Tester! You'll see a bit of our future there.
There is excitement in Colorado all the way around. Even among Republicans.
I think the trick is going to be keeping the minset about saturn we've relearned all these years...he's not bad, he's constructive
I feel safe with Saturn around. I trust him. I think we're all ready for him now.
I also hate to see the party diminish, but we'll find a way. Sadges will celebrate their own deaths!
Just think how sweet the parties will be in our Saturnine grown up country.
Love this thread, thank you.
I
That oil change thingy is really intersting. The drop in oil sales? Something's almost on board.
Chrispi! Meet juno! She's tops.
Hi Chrispito!
Wow! I missed a lot, even a Virgo conjuncting my Moon at 29 degrees.
Chrispito's a Sagittarius rising, juno. Grand fire trine. No wonder.
The reality is, is that the pendulum is now swinging back in the beautiful rhythm it always has. What I'd like to see this time, though, is that serious debate we were talking about and participaion by everyone from all sides in restructuring our government.
I want good city planning, safe streets, clean towns, and a great environment. we can do that.
That is something amazing. 29 Virgo. If anyone can clean up this act, it's you acousticgod!!!
My Neptune needs it.
:)
your arrival tonight, juno, was perfectly timed. A major important event occurred today, and this is my turning point. I feel it's the country's as well.
Next week I'm going out for a night on the town. Something I haven't felt like doing for awhile. I expect things to improve on the streets, the fear to lift, being far enough away from 9/11, and I'm getting ready to participate. I will also be going to the Art District party Fri night. Will report back on how the knuckleheads are all doing.
And......
It looks like the Sequoia Adams Performance Project started right on time!!!!!!
SAPP!
Cool! This weekend I'll be participating in the "ship of fools show" which is a political art show that is hosted by a local (my building manager!) artist and gallery owner. Then we have the kick off to the gallery season with the downtown art walk. We usually do well at those events, we need it right now...
I've been playing really low stakes poker online lately, and I'm really surprised that I'm being consistent in my winning.
Fantastic!!! This makes me feel so good.
If the finances aren't doing so hot, they'll swing up when they will. The artist's life. And choice. Could be hard for a SN in Capricorn to let it slide the way it does, but then there's energy
for other things. That's one thing about our country and our good fortune. Lots of opportunity. We do well.
I LOVE that title. Ship of Fools.
We'll see. The mega rich have made their killing and have had their orgy. There should be other things happening up ahead. I can't imagine what the new complaints will be.
Ok, my post looks terribly random. Sorry. Just venting my success while bored. I've been reading about ADD lately, and I think I definitely fit the bill. I'm watching Colbert Report, playing poker, typing here, and checking my other forum. How's that for Mutable?
I am buoyed up by the new information (pew surveys)that shows that we have steadily become more progressive as a culture for the last twenty years...with a definite spike in the last five or so...gives me hope...
I've always pitied the rich, but then I don't aspire to their status like most.
But to have so much and still be emtpy, I can't imagine that. Tragic. The void that motivates them. The lust for power that covers such fear and insignificance. No thanks.
I see than all the time, well heeled and perfectly coiffed, and still, they make me sad.
Really ag? ADD. Not severe though.
I love mutable! I've got 4.
we have steadily become more progressive as a culture for the last twenty years...with a definite spike in the last five or so..
Really really really?????
I believe it, with the Uranus Neptune mutual reception going on all along. And my town has obviously gone that route.
Little things point this out. They have many many more gay couples pictured in the paper. it's accepted now.
It seems to me progress can't be stopped. look at the whole picture and how we've moved. The downturns are temporary.
Uranus in Aries is about as progressive as it gets, so I expect no turning back now. This research makes complete sense.
Yeah, progress is inevitable. It's weird for me to watch Republicans slowly come onboard with Progressive thoughts as they become more fashionable.
YAY! I feel much better, I needed a chat here...:)! I'm feeling the call of bed but I thank you for your insight...I'll be combing back thru that thread for some numbers...some amazing stuff there! Well goodnight all! May we have far better dreams tonite than we have dared to dream in these dark years....Love, Juno
Have a good night Juno!
I'll take those far better dreams juno!
It was wonderful to chat with you. Check out the stuff on the movie, The Clay Bird, on that thread.
Better times are here. Sagittarius is like that, and Pluto is delivering. Come back as soon as you can. You lift everyone's spirits.
thanks!, you too...:)
I just read your Nancy Pelosi article. Good stuff. I especially enjoyed the analysis of Bush's chart. I haven't looked at it much previously. Good call on the Libra Moon, and I definitely see that in him. Hence all the opinions that he's a puppet.
And now Pelosi and the President are in the news. Pelosi said that Bush should calm down after he defiantly said he'd veto the spending bills if they came to him.
Good news ag. Glad you got to it. That's really true about the Libra Moon. Also, many Libra Moons are partners of the mother rather than the father taking that role.
This is what I love about astrology. People are never what they seem, but the chart reveals a lot.
There are all kinds of things in his chart I've talked about that no one else has, so maybe in time I'll review some of it.
His learning disabilities and problems with language, for example. He never was the power that others made him out to be. Puppet, definitely.
The interesting part is his NN in Gemini in the 11th indicating a good collective destiny. In the end, I think this will be true, albeit not conscious. But I think we have evolved as a society from the whole experience. And communication among us...Gemini 11th...has really developed during these years. It all works out.
loved that!!!!! Oh how I loved that!!! So much in command of herself, and him, the little boy. Perfect. She's really doing it, and all women are going to benefit.
I knew she'd do it.
It also serves his 12th house need for punishment, so he's happy. No one else could take charge like her. Fearless Aries. She has great leadership skills, just what the time ahead is calling for.
It's weird for me to watch Republicans slowly come onboard with Progressive thoughts as they become more fashionable.
True, and an interesting statement. Exactly what's happening.
JM,
Of course things are changing, I came here yesterday, did I not? Remember back, and think about how something big has happened each time I show up here. If you remember, I come here and take a respite from my massive blogging adventures. I wait till the big one drops, and then the Marine is off to fight another battle while filled with the goodness and love of those here.
I am waiting for something big to happen now. I am getting replenished and rested for a big fight soon. You know my sign, so check it out and tell me what you see. BTW, how did you enjoy the peace filled sleep you so much needed?
If you want a funny version of it, I fight the neocons there, so you don't have to fight them here. Bwahahaha! So now I am going to find me a corner here to lick my wounds. Those SOB's sure do scratch hard these days.
Oh, I wish I didn't have to go to bed early yesterday and miss the chatting but alas, I did!
I am always interested in politics, but as the government structure in the USA is so different than in Canada, I get lost.
It's awesome to hear of events in relation to astrology, thanks Juno et all. Sometimes I forget how deep these things go.
BTW, how did you enjoy the peace filled sleep you so much needed?
Yes! And thank you donnie! And thank you for fighting the neocons. They certainly are disgusting. I don't know how you can look at them. You marines are tough. No doubt.
Chrispi, I love the political discussions with juno, since she has metaphysical knowledge. Glad you enjoy them.
I love that word, disgusting. Sometimes I watch politicians in action and I have to pinch myself. It's unbelievable what bile comes out of people...
On another note, I got accepted into art school today! Hoooooray! I'm really excited as the college I am going to is really affordable, and it has TONS of free material and equipment to use! I can't wait to melt down my copper mugs and make armour for the SAPP! Hee hee!
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SAPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes I watch politicians in action and I have to pinch myself. It's unbelievable what bile comes out of people
Ain't it the truth? Art school to the rescue!
Well you know, Donnie, the Neanderthal's were amongst the first to have elaborate burials for their people...hmmm..!
I know, art school, huh! It is kind of funny because I have spent more than half my life working, working, working and having my SR in Leo finally helped me bust out of my Sun-square-Saturn trap of "never gonna do well."
I am creative, and come from a long line of worker-bees who painted/sewed/crocheted/drew/sculpted on the side.
My mother taught me that art was therapy. No one "proper therapy" never worked for her. I am sure if she was born in another time and place she would've made a life out of art. Although, really, I guess she did.
As for politicians...I am trying to envision what the future looks like. The political landscape, specifically. Trying to inspire myself to envision something I can bring into being, myself.
"No wonder 'proper therapy' did not work for her"
that's what I meant!
I'd like to chime in on some of this political future a little later. We have some say in shaping it, neanderthal knuckle draggers be damned!!
Jm, this reminds me of an example of what the city did here a few years ago. Loads of cyclists take Windsor St, okay? And it isn't a 'bike route' proper, it just worked really well. Cyclists know it for it's easy hills, it's pedestrian-controlled crosswalks at major streets, low traffic, etc.
What does the city do? Spends a ton of money making it a bike route proper. Then blows its horn. The perfect example of the people just choosing a good path and the politicians following. I'd like to remember that, so I never feel like I am following them!
The perfect example of the people just choosing a good path and the politicians following. I'd like to remember that, so I never feel like I am following them!
I think this is true which is what always heartens me. It might not appear that way, but I think the leadership is an organic outgrowth of the society. The whole collective rules. I wish people would understand that, instead of feeling victimized by government. It's just not so.
Oh, I totally agree! I get so sick and tired of people saying "screw the system." We ARE the system! And it's more than many people realize!
We have so much power, collectively, just through creative force. I mean, millions of people follow fashion trends and hair trends (hello, backcombed hair and stirrup pants)?
Why is it so farfetched to some that we can't influence our government in a moe creative way than just complaining and then voting 'safely' at the last second?
Um, and yes I advocate civil disobedience, as long as it is non-violent and doesn't interfere with another human's dignity, livelihood, or property.
I'm thinking of becoming a guerella gardener. I don't want to do it alone, though.
Good night, Jm et all. I highly enjoy your company but my bed is calling me!
Yes, the collective, exactly!!
ok, g'night :)
I love the space you provide. 'Tis awesome!
Your last post was wonderful Chrispi.
get so sick and tired of people saying "screw the system." We ARE the system!
Absolutely!
So glad you found us.
Fascinating dietary, historical, political discussion in the first part of this thread.
I've been wrestling with what seems a complicated emotional/physical problem involving low energy level lately, marginal anemia diagnosis, acid reflux. This discussion helps a bit.
I also noticed the statement Islam was started under a Saturn-Neptune opposition. That may be true -- I'll have to check on that (I put together an extensive timeline on my astrohistory site that I closed up in '01) -- but what I do recall is the beginnings of Islam under an Uranus-Neptune conjunction, in Virgo, I believe.
Perhaps I can gain more insights if I go to any more of the Arab film festival that started last night, within easy walking distance of my house.
I do recall is the beginnings of Islam under an Uranus-Neptune conjunction, in Virgo
Yes, pd. That's what we were talking about on a fascinating thread, which I'll post under this comment
I know people who've battled with acid reflux... it's worse than what others know. Most of them have healed over time. Neptune can do this to the body. Sap vitality. But what you descibed can be managed and corrected.
I consulted a naturopath for an ailment recently and she was wonderful. I have some good books on metaphysical causation and they guide me through all my sickneses. It's largely the body trying to find equilibrium, and the side benefit are the psychological cues.
I've noticed with so many diseases that they seem to have a life of their own, coming and going when they're ready. I'll consult my books and see what's there.
I've always thought, since acid reflux is something going in the wrong direction, that this was the clue.
Here's the link. A fantastic discussion tseka and I had recently. And a movie I recommend for those interested in the Islamic situation. Very complex and interesting.
Fascinating
Pd caught the anemia mild can probably be fixed up just as well with green leafy veggies (as opposed to the beef suggestion)blackstrap molasses is the old remedy and a good multi-vitamin. I was chronically anemic when i was younger, sometimes seriously so, it can be danged wearing.
Acid-reflux....stress? Nux Vomica 6x can work wonders better than beta blockers has been what i've observed -go check it out- This is a homeopathic remedy good for folk under stress, keeping a job together- especially where there is high managerial aspect to it.
I would be very interested in you posting your info on the birth of Islam. There are several possibilities. Virgo is very strong in many. I look forward to this.
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