Monday, August 07, 2006

The Man


I have a theory that there are two major forces in life. Thrusting and sucking. These two seem to be required to propel us through the passageway from birth to death. It starts with our breathing pattern, rules our digestion, and certainly dominates procreation.
There's a lot of talk about men's power over women these days, and I've wondered about all of this. In the dance of creation, man thrusts his seed in an arc that's visible. His glory revealed. Woman releases hers invisibly. Her magnificence hidden. But who's to say which one has the most thrust and strength? Who knows what potency it takes to get the egg out from it's holder. So I've reserved my decision.
There is an element of fear of annihilation in these actions between the sexes. Women fear thrust and death by penetration, men fear sucking and suffocation. So who dominates? You tell me.
I think the sexes are the same with minor variations.

28 Comments:

Anonymous Juno Jones said...

I'm with ya, jm, the differences between men and women are highly overstated and reinforced artificially by culture...the old 'divide-n-conquer' maybe? I find it highly funny that despite the dicovery of the egg in the last century or so, religious (and sadly some spiritual) dogma has marched right along as if sperm homunculuii never went out of style. I take especial delight in studying philosophies forbidden to women in the past (kabbalah, etc) we'll see whose head explodes first!:) Ahh give me a new frontier with an equal and partner any day. Here's to our tough frontier grannies who have passed on a legacy of respect and pride....J

7/8/06 10:12 AM  
Anonymous Juno Jones said...

eek, I don't know how that dropped out...equal and liberated partner, is what I meant to say. I have always gone for guys who can relate to their feminine side as well as masculine, macho turns me off...
Also re: the cosmic joke, I think of it as an 'in' joke, you have to gain a certain amount of knowledge to see it...and once you do, you discover that it is an interaction and not just a one-way street...just my 2 cents....Take care, J

7/8/06 10:19 AM  
Anonymous Joe said...

That's why the notion of immutable, binary gender is so ridiculous. The third sex, the two spirits, are the fluid, slippery space in the continuum of female and male. Without their mediating influence, humanity is pretty much confined to a sort of cultural missionary position.

A great book on this topic is Another Mother Tongue by Judy Grahn. It's just full of historical information. For example, did you know that gay people used to be called Uranians? Apparently Uranus was/is the ruling planet of the third sex.

7/8/06 2:16 PM  
Blogger jm said...

the differences between men and women are highly overstated and reinforced artificially by culture...the old 'divide-n-conquer' maybe?

Absolutely. I raised myself, as my mother was preoccupied. Maybe that's why I don't cling to the usual female identity. My mother was atypical, herself, so I was free all the way around from stereotypes. But it could explain my difficulty in fitting in nicely with society.

The third sex, the two spirits, are the fluid, slippery space in the continuum of female and male. Without their mediating influence, humanity is pretty much confined to a sort of cultural missionary position.

Very very well put.

I was taught that Uranus ruled sexual deviation from society's norm. I DID NOT know that gays were called Uranians. Thank you so much joe for that info.

Uranus aspects almost every planet in my chart. Like you, joe, I have Mars and Venus in close aspect, ruling our close relationships and our way of expressing love, intimacy, and sexuality.

Uranus is the definite ruler of deviation. It spins on its side, while the others go up and down. It is also the only planet named after a Greek god. The others are Roman. Uranians must express their eccentricity, and even the way that's done is entirely unpredictable.

We have a Full Moon in Aquarius coming right up to remind us of our uniqueness, and ability to belong regardless.

7/8/06 2:58 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Also re: the cosmic joke, I think of it as an 'in' joke, you have to gain a certain amount of knowledge to see it...and once you do, you discover that it is an interaction and not just a one-way street

Another one of my crusades, which is why I had so much trouble with the constant whining about others in the government as if the rulers came from some alien place to torture them. A little too egocentric, I think. I was extremely uncomfortable the whole time since the last election participating in the mega mega blame of others. The whole victimization by authorities stance has never resonated with me. All the while I wanted to laugh and play with the gods, not fear them. Granted they do some scary things, but the 'in joke' is the clue. The gods would never give up their chuckling audience. The ones who see through their dramas.

7/8/06 3:10 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

OK - I believe it's mostly a plumbing thing . . . :-) Waaaay to much time is taken up fussing about the differences. All the major religions attach way too much significance to gender roles. IMO, it has to do with inheritance, power, & money. When the males decided they wanted to know which child was theirs, it all went to hell in a hand basket!

Without their mediating influence, humanity is pretty much confined to a sort of cultural missionary position.
LOL!!! :-)

7/8/06 3:14 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It IS all about inheritance, exacerbated by the advent of agriculture when we started collecting things. I wonder what the hunters and gatherers did about this.

Good point about the male identification with the child. Maybe that has something to do with the alpha male in the group who wants to make sure his extra procreative potency is maintained for the survival of the whole. I know delineation of all kinds has been one of man's greatest pastimes. Analysis, and supposedly then, synthesis. Where is the synthesis? Male and female couldn't just come together, as it were, only in sexual intercourse.

I also wonder if the less sexually potent are more potent in other ways.

7/8/06 3:27 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It also occurred to me that we have an instinctual urge to polarize. All electrical flow is based on the pos/neg differentiation. Do we create these difference to increase the desire to come together? To increase attraction? Ensure the big bang.

I wonder if in same sex relationships, the polarity is established along similar lines. That would prove it's intrinsic lack of separation underneath, or at least our creative hand in it.

7/8/06 4:10 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

I never noticed that about Uranus being the only Greek in our planetary pantheon! I wonder what prompted astronomers to name them after the Roman style? Were Roman myths more familiar than Greek? Anyone know?

Neith said: IMO, it has to do with inheritance, power, & money. When the males decided they wanted to know which child was theirs,

Too right. The joke was on them, because for the longest time, no one knew that we all start out female while in utero, until our XX or XY genes kick in. What conceit!

Female is the default, the basis, the matrix (from which the words maternal, matrilineal, etc. come), and male is simply a mutation of female, for the purpose of sexual reproduction. And then you have animals that change gender, and organisms that reproduce by asexual means or parthenogenesis, on and on.

I'm sorry, the last thing I want is to sound like a know-it-all but it's so nice to be around people who are interested in the same things I am!!! :o)

7/8/06 4:14 PM  
Blogger jm said...

the last thing I want is to sound like a know-it-all but it's so nice to be around people who are interested in the same things I am!!! :o)

Omigod! This brings to mind another one of my peeves. This ridiculous groupthink crap.

I LOVE KNOW-IT-ALLS!!

It beats the hell out of know nothings. I don't care what mystical shit is perpetrated about not knowing, I will always love people who are packed to the gills with information and knowledge, and the confidence to take pride in them and disseminate the jewels.

I must find the answer to the Roman/Greek astro mystery.

Female is the default, the basis, the matrix (from which the words maternal, matrilineal, etc. come), and male is simply a mutation of female, for the purpose of sexual reproduction.

Very very very interesting.

Do we all want to be female? To be home with the matrix mother. Is the intersex merging an attempt by the male to get back home? Does he feel especially insecure being left out in the cold in the male incarnation?

7/8/06 4:24 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Thanks, jm. i will remember that about know-it-all-ism. BTW, you said "gills" and it made me laugh right out loud, because we have primitive gills while in utero! Was that an intentional word choice on your part? :o)

Hermaphrodites have always been around in some form or another. It's just not always obvious, or when it is, it's deemed pathological and surgically corrected in babies.

I dunno if it's a case of wanting to be female so much as that when you reach the basis of everything with gender, femaleness can't be erased. Maybe it's an inherent quality of our planet, our dimension, or something.

7/8/06 4:36 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I wonder when the sex organs develop in utero? And if we are the same until then, and this is the primary difference. Then as the sex organs mature the differentiation becomes more pronounced to ensure mating.

Have all of our differences, which could have been used for fun and variation become such a serious thing that man has turned to destroying the differences literally? Are we not getting it right?

Mercury in astrology represents the thinking process and hermaphrodites. So does this indicate that we really think the same, but only act out the differences for reproductive reasons?

It's interesting in mythology that the earth(female) mated with her son, Uranus(male), but almost nothing is known about him. He's a huge blank in an otherwise elaborate cast of characters with long stories. The unknown father of the universe.

7/8/06 4:48 PM  
Blogger jm said...

All of this points to the possibility that the male feels marginalized in the big scheme of things and thus his over emphasis of the power search. I would want to refrain from trying to dominate him but instead try to encourage him to find his real strength and confidence.
Even when wealth went from matrilineal to patrilineal control, this didn't seem to do the trick, as we are seeing right now with fellows in rulership who can't get enough. The oil spigot is one of those places where we are seeing it all. Black Gold, Mother Earth, and Man.

7/8/06 5:02 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

OMG, we're on a roll and a half!

It's interesting in mythology that the earth(female) mated with her son, Uranus(male), but almost nothing is known about him. Shades of Inanna and Dumuzi, Ishtar and Tammuz, Isis and Osiris! I forgot that one. The Divine Mother and Son seems to be a constant thread everywhere, at least in Indo-European parts of the world.

He's a huge blank in an otherwise elaborate cast of characters with long stories. The unknown father of the universe.

I think you put your finger right on the gaping wound, jm. There is a HUGE father-shaped hole in the national psyche, perhaps in the collective psyche of the species. Why? When I attended a primarily GLBT church for a time, they once had a special Father's Day service to honor our fathers. Whereas Mother's Day would have been sentimental and positive, the church that morning was somber, sad, grieving, and tearful. Everyone there had a wound that bled that morning, myself included.

All of this points to the possibility that the male feels marginalized in the big scheme of things and thus his over emphasis of the power search.

Bingo. You got it. I've long said that warfare is same-sex attraction gone feral and destructive.

7/8/06 5:19 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Let me amend that. I think if it were socially acceptable for men to be tender, loving and sexual with each other, war would be unknown. Like I said, it's same-sex attraction turned inward and destructive because it has no outlet.

7/8/06 5:22 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The Fathers Day story resonates, joe. I know there was much more sadness for me around my father's death than my mother's, as though he had missed something.

I've long said that warfare is same-sex attraction gone feral and destructive.

One of my favorite topics. The whole activity with its thrust and penetration, and misplaced intimacy. I also think that the male bloodletting in warfare is the equivalent of female menstruation. The need to see blood flow out of the body is so powerful and universal. Just observe this country watching this every night now on their screens, then reliving it every day on the the forums. Over and over, with no satisfaction or resolution.

This is why I know I can't control this ancient ritual with roots so deep, and desires I can't fathom. How women and children got implicated I don't know, but this is where we are now. As usual, my solution is understanding first.

7/8/06 5:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There was along period of peace in the Athenian empire days when homosexuality was accepted completely, I think under Pericles. After his rule, taboos were reinstated, the Golden Age ended, warfare again rose. When men were allowed to love freely, the arts and the intellect flourished.

7/8/06 5:36 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

This is such a fascinating discussion, I just have to take a minute to add a thought i had . . .

I don't believe where we loved gained any importance as long as we were matriarchal. It seems to have become important with the shift to the patriarchal systems. It's where the sperm goes that counts . . . nothing to do with loving feelings, even when the receptacle was female (who may or may not have welcomed males as lovers . . .)

I have a few thoughts on what makes a parent too . . :-) later!

7/8/06 5:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That's a big one neith. About the patriarchal shift. Very big. I'd like to pursue it. I wonder about sexuality being mixed with love altogether as a subject.

Another thing about Athens and the freedom to express intimacy among men was the search for the ideal male, expressed in all the literature and art. Maybe the sexual freedom gave the search for identity fuel, as the common understanding and merging was used to try to be the best model of manhood they could build. I will have to look at the astro factors of this time.

7/8/06 5:53 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

jm, one disagreement I have with the Athenian male ideal you mention: it left Greek women in the dust--again. They were unimportant and had few civil rights, as I recall, although I freely admit I could be mistaken on that.

I keep thinking of the Iroquois, who had a council of women who kept the men from running wild. The remnant indigenous people of the Northeast US are still either matriarchal or egalitarian. I saw a reality show once which retraced the European settlers' lives in the New Hampshire area, and the participants lived as the colonists would have, complete with animals, plows, scarce food, etc. The producers brought in the local Native population and the two sides recreated the first meeting. Emotions were high, especially among the men, and one of the Indian warriors did something rather rash, leading to discipline from the women's council.

Anyway I digress. But it's clear we've struck a... heh... mother lode of something powerful.

7/8/06 6:39 PM  
Anonymous Juno Jones said...

"Without their mediating influence, humanity is pretty much confined to a sort of cultural missionary position." LOL! I'll be cleaning soda water off the keyboard for awhile after THAT one...Good one, Joe!

My theory on the Greek and Roman thing is that the language of science, in fact all learning for awhile, was of course,Latin. Thus they became standardized as Roman gods in western culture. Maybe there was no Roman equivalent to Uranus, and there's a good chance that it's atypical naming might have to do with the fact that it is one of the 'modern' planets as opposed to a 'classical' one. But I sure hadn't thought of that before...would be interesting to know what the Greeks called the planets...or any other culture for that matter, I know Venus has always tended to be Goddesses, I seem to remember that she is also equated with Innana and Ishtar...

My parents were atypical too, jm, I was encouraged to play dress-up AND help change the oil on the car...

7/8/06 6:47 PM  
Anonymous Juno Jones said...

"it left Greek women in the dust--again. They were unimportant and had few civil rights, as I recall"

Unfortunately true.

7/8/06 6:53 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

I keep thinking of the Iroquois, who had a council of women who kept the men from running wild. The remnant indigenous people of the Northeast US are still either matriarchal or egalitarian.

I believe most of the Native peoples leaned in the above directions, usually with fairly clearly defined roles for the genders. But with such a small homogeneous group, it was easier to make adjustments for those who had different natures. After all, they usually needed all the hands they could get to keep everyone clothed, sheltered & fed. The Northwest coast peoples had a better darn good food supply that allowed them time to develop most stationary art forms . . . like totem poles. Most hunter/gather peoples were ultimately very pragmatic - adapt or starve.

heh - we may get to that point yet w/all that's going on in the world today . . .

7/8/06 7:15 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

My parents were atypical too, jm, I was encouraged to play dress-up AND help change the oil on the car...

mine too . . . :-) plus a few more tasks usually delegated to guys.

7/8/06 7:16 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Absolutely true about women in Athens. but it makes me wonder about the motivations for war. People seem to assume that if women were in obvious power, war would diminish, which I've never believed. During the Periclean era there was peace and also the 100 year Pax Romana of the Roman Empire. I don't think its gender, so I wonder what it is that removes the desire to steal, rape, plunder, and murder.

7/8/06 8:06 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There are so many factors determining the social order, geography, I think, being paramount in importance. I thought that hunter/gatherers were more egalitarian. In agricultural societies, the division of labor must have become much more complex, and ownership required someone there to protect the assets, care for the animals, etc., while men were off to war to increase the assets even more.

Women now feel victimized by men, but somehow I think they are complicit in the roles they've assumed. Maybe they purposely shrunk from the battlefield by playing a less aggressive role, for protection of the young. Then things got out of whack, and women became prisoners in perception. The simplistic view of men's power irritates me to no end as does the denial of women's hidden power.

7/8/06 8:13 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

The simplistic view of men's power irritates me to no end as does the denial of women's hidden power.

Oh yah . . . or not so hidden power as the case may be! Reviewing those women who post here, I'd most of us were encouraged by our families to not follow "traditional" female roles. It was really when we hit puberty (which for me was almost 16) that we got confused by conflicting demands from peers, teachers, etc. Perhaps we are better served to just step aside from the roles commonly presented altogether. Have we not found a community where we are accepted as we stand? The Full Moon in Aquarius is rolling up & encouraging all intelligent, caring thoughtful beings to take the long view. :-)

If you haven't taken the time to read up on this full moon, please do so! This one is a major event, especially for those with planets, angles in the mid-degrees of the fixed signs.

7/8/06 9:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Perhaps we are better served to just step aside from the roles commonly presented altogether.

I think we've all come to that conclusion which is why the sense of community is so strong. I also think when we act from our unique source, we know it's right but encounter strange sometimes indecipherable responses from society. Well, to hell with'em if they can't take a joke, so the saying goes.

neith, you are so right about this Aquarian Moon. I love the Aquarian energy anyway but this one is special. The first in this nascent little social construct.

With our composite Aquarius rising, I feel we are home. Moonshine on this cottage back door step! I think I'll drink up.

7/8/06 9:50 PM  

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