Victory!!!
In myth, Pluto was the ruler of the underworld, where gods and men went from the surface of the earth permanently. Only Mercury could come and go at will. Others were occasionally allowed back up according to Pluto's will. To enter his domain, life on earth must be sacrificed, but in this world lie the Elysian Fields......paradise.
Pluto has always evoked tremendous fear, holding knowledge of the ugly truths of human behavior, not willingly faced. The ex-planet is now at the center of our Milky Way galaxy where a black hole lies in waiting to suck the waste matter left from stellar activity. Pluto is the cosmic plumber, removing what is no longer needed and in passing this hole, he eliminated himself. Gone back home underground. His job done.
He normally wears a mask when on earth to appear invisible. It seems that in his journey through Sagittarius, the mask was momentarily removed, and mankind saw the dark side revealed. With the return of Pluto to his domain and the diminishing of his overpowerful status, I think there will be a similar diminishing of fear. The War on Terror has been won.
The planet's discovery in 1930 heralded the rise of Hitler, plutonium and nuclear power, and the awareness of the destructive potential of man. The world has been terrified ever since. But now I think we are ready to move on with this knowledge and put the omnipotent fear of Pluto in perspective. This election cycle should reveal if this is so and terror no longer the manipulative tool it was.
These are some of the possibilities:
1. The taboos associated with Pluto surfaced these last years when we saw torture and other deviant behaviors under the magnifying glass. These things are always going on and there is nothing that can be done to stop them entirely. Perhaps they will return to their hidden place to some extent now that we have seen enough.
2. The devastation wrought by Katrina and the human sewage revealed could have awakened this country and made it more able to see the decay in its structures and access it for repair or removal when Pluto transits Capricorn.
3. Maybe we won't shake in fear so much every time a person says his sign is SCORPIO!
4. The wealthy plutocracy could be destined for restraint. Already the money in the Scorpio Moon elitest Republican Party is leaving. The distribution of power should slowly become more equitable.
5. Fear and mind control used for the purpose of gaining political power should eventually be curtailed.
6. A new awareness of the dying process as organizations like Hospice gain status and help us confront this inevitable end to every living creature's life. Less fear of dying would mean less fear of living.
7. Astrolgers will continue to read Pluto as normal, but with a lessening of superstition. Pluto is not the great destroyer some say. He can be extremely subtle. He is the most erratic of the planets, sometimes orbiting sideways, sometimes up and down, and sometimes coming closer than Neptune. He is not what he appears to be, and could be the biggest magician of them all. He certainly surprised us just now.
There is no way of predicting but the symbolism is hard to ignore. Jupiter has been in mutual reception with Pluto and will soon be leaving Scorpio. Then Jupiter will cross Sagittarius and meet his brother, maybe to cut a deal for equal power. We shall see, as Pluto takes his bow, his newly dwarfed status, and goes home, waiting like a gentleman to receive us in due time.
Illustration by Tricia Newell from The Mythic Tarot by Juliet Sharman-Burke and Liz Greene
posted by jm at 7:22 PM
118 Comments:
3.Maybe we won't shake in fear so much every time a person says his sign is SCORPIO!
*cue wicked laughter* Too right!
Seriously, I had not thought of the "War on Terror" quite like this. It's a war on fear, not "terrorism." Brilliant, jm!
Another interpretation crossed my mind, though, namely that removing Pluto's status was another attempt by the PTB to sanitize everything, to deny the dark side of human nature, etc.
But I like your reasoning better.
3.Maybe we won't shake in fear so much every time a person says his sign is SCORPIO!
Ditto...lol. That cracked me up too!
Interesting blogging. My fear is that he just went subterranean again.
Excellent JM!
i have been thinking along these lines as well. Pluto is in the Galactic Center. This is the "Road of Hel" from the Sagas. In many ways Hel is the scandinavian myth version of Pluto she carries souls into the underground but her home has a sumptuous table, -Hel means whole, healed. Life and death merge, Hel is the union of completments masc/fem etc. When Pluto got to the road of Hel, we acknowledged Charon, Pluto's binary mate but failed to recognize their union. I think this is very telling about the next step of humanity. Hel(asteroid 949) has been travelling with the Nodes since the summer solstice over the Aries point suggesting a new era.) We find that Charon is equal and binary to Pluto, why was it so hard for us to accept this union? (ps Hel and the Nodes are square Pluto now)
2. Dwarf planet, dwarves are of the dark underworld, Pluto belongs to them, Ceres now that feels wrong to me to find her among such entities.
3. From laws of dilution in homeopathy, the greater the attneuation, ie. the more dilute, the remedy the more powerful, deeper acting. The material dose is physical and apparent, the dilute attenuation can be but it reaches more deeply, beyond the current moment to our collective past; our miasms, dyscrasias. This is Pluto. It seems correct to identify and define the potency of the stimulus, and astrology has done this by separating the effects of the inner and outer planets.
My hope is that the astrological community will arrive at a different naming (not dwarf)of the smaller outer planets and bodies, the infinitisimal dose, therein, lies the power to cure.
Something else i have been pondering is this little factoid: Jupitier conjoins Pluto 12 December 2007. The Namnsdag (named energy) of 12 December is: Alexander= al (one) Lexi(lesson) ander(spirit) One Lesson of the Spirit. It correlates to 19-20 degrees of Sagitarius the Asc of USA.
From approximately 15 degrees of Sagittarius to first degree of Capricorn is Hel's home they say she came from Sirius the source of wisdom. You don't mess with her....She is the Whole and trumps everybody.
Very interesting comments. Something is up.
It's a war on fear
I've always perceived it that way joe. The naming was odd to me and I've always had a strange mixture of anger at the manipulation and relief at the prospect.
My fear is that he just went subterranean again.
He's still here no doubt. But subterranean is where he's at his best.
Tseka, as usual, fascinating input. Hel and the nodes is so interesting. The NN in Pisces is about an ending of some kind to allow for the new era to fully manifest. An ending that is actually part of a beginning. Charon it seems has just been raised in status. I feel good about this. Charon has appeared in my songs and I feel he is an important link to our subconscious and deepest pleasure, with the knowledge that the Elysian Fields are there. He has to be paid first.
Charon is equal and binary to Pluto, why was it so hard for us to accept this union?
I have been thinking about this. It could be that the payment of Charon indicates that death is a reward that we earn. It really does coincide with Christian thinking in its purity but still the concept is hard to accept. it demands the letting go of fear, which is what it's all about. The fear of death is also the fear of life. maybe the death dilemma has to be faced first.
Dwarf planet, dwarves are of the dark underworld, Pluto belongs to them, Ceres now that feels wrong to me to find her among such entities.
Very very interesting about the dwarves. I'm going to study Ceres. She is also interesting. There is a reason she goes down. She does show us the balance between the light and dark worlds which we still need to know.
the more dilute, the remedy the more powerful, deeper acting.
Didn't know that. Your reasoned connection is excellent. This especially:
the dilute attenuation can be but it reaches more deeply, beyond the current moment to our collective past
The dwarfing is the diluting apparently and the curative power you mention. I do think he needed to be reduced in obvious brute strength.
Alexander= al (one) Lexi(lesson) ander(spirit) One Lesson of the Spirit. It correlates to 19-20 degrees of Sagitarius the Asc of USA.
My Jupiter is 20, my Moon 22.
Hel and the wholeness is fantastic. No mistake that Pluto is associated with 'Hell'. One day we must integrate the underworld with the upper and this could be part of it as Pluto passes the GC this time around.
I'm excited by the developments.
Although Pluto was accorded less status than than Jupiter, he possessed the greater power, because his law was irrevocable.
I think this is what is going on with Jupiter now, this age old sibling rivalry, esp. with Jupiter in mutual reception and conjoining in Sag next.
The permanence of Plutonian experience seems to be what frightens us. It is terrifying to drop something knowing you can never retrieve it. Even if its growth and joy ahead, the letting go is hard. We always reach and grasp, but I think letting go is the most pleasurable. The scenario is repeated every day in our eating and elimination.
Ceres, however, points out that it is possible to go back. Maybe we have to fully let go to realize this.
I also feel that Pluto was behind this, not the scientists or the rulers.
I have found that people die when the others they are leaving are ready to let go and carry on without them.
So I feel thet Pluto is telling us that we have learned our lesson well and he can move on, and so can we, having faced the image of total annihilation as a species.
"I have found that people die when the others they are leaving are ready to let go and carry on without them."
Totally agree with this. (nods head vigourously)
Great observations all around, Tseka! Could it be, also, that Pluto, being the outermost planet, connects to Hel because Pluto is furthest from the source of light and heat? Some theologies refer to hell as a dark and cold place, not a hot, burning place. And both Tseka and jm, great observations about Charon.
When I was very young, I received for Christmas a large, heavy hardbound book called Our Universe by Roy something or other. Celestial phenomena from the Sun to the nine known planets, and asteroids and comets, to the workings of our own planet, are laid out in color and detail. Each planet's mythological associations are given in each chapter, along with artist's paintings of what the planet looks like in its area of the solar system. The chapter on Pluto shows a pinpoint Sun barely illuminating Pluto from the side, and his very large satellite, Charon, is shown as well.
Even so young, I thought it odd that a planet would have such a large moon. Maybe I sensed that binary nature of Pluto/Charon, somehow.
Casey, you would know. I was struck by your story and the way your father died when you were so young. How do you see this applying. And to your latest death?
Joe, that is odd, but I think people like us who are seeking knowledge and are advanced have been that way since birth.
I will have to give this binary factor a lot of thought. There is some duality about Pluto waiting to be grasped.
Pluto is furthest from the source of light and heat? Some theologies refer to hell as a dark and cold place, not a hot, burning place.
Maybe this why we understand so little about his nature being so far from conscious light. All if it indicates speculation about what death is like.
Maybe this event is bringing us closer to understanding as we take a new look at Pluto.
I'm in heaven speaking of Hell. The other sites have made this a fearful event blaming the scientists, too quickly rushing to judgement, and you are wonderful! This is what it's all about. I see exactly why I had to get going in my own sphere. Pluto is bumped as a planet, and many immediately think it's a conspiracy or they are victims once again. This is part of the Plutonian lesson. Understanding our psyches and subconscious motives, that we are architects of our destiny. The victim/perpetrator relationship being such a big one. I have theories about the Iraq war which I would like to pursue from this perspective.
Hi all - Great post, jm & all the comments just add to the whole experience. Wow!!
He normally wears a mask when on earth to appear invisible. It seems that in his journey through Sagittarius, the mask was momentarily removed, and mankind saw the dark side revealed.
Personally, I don't think Pluto's power will be diminished . . . just going back to being hidden. Considering that most Pluto transits can last up to 4 yrs as he wanders back & forth across one segment of the zodiac, his effects have always been subtle. We who have delved into his effects see them as more dramatic than most others. Besides humankind as a whole is very, very good at denial . . . I've seen people time and again nod their heads up & down, and say, oh yes, you are so right! And go back to their old behaviors so fast it can make one's head spin.
Could it be now that Pluto has slipped his helmet back on, that the separation widening between those he has awoken & those still asleep will grow?
I most sincerely hope that Fear will lessen too . . . doubt it, but remain hopeful . . :-)
Lots more great insights into hel, Charon, etc that are feeding my heart . . . later, folks, now the dang lawn mower is calling!~
I've seen people time and again nod their heads up & down, and say, oh yes, you are so right! And go back to their old behaviors so fast it can make one's head spin.
That's why I got out of counseling. But I have to understand the hard task of letting go. The SN is involved in this.
I do know that people cling to what they still need for as long as required and there is absolutely no one, therapist, astrologer, spouse, anyone that can determine the timing. Even transits won't tell. And most importantly, we don't know if negative behavior is necessary to get to a better place. Not a good idea to force it to stop in another unless that's what they want. Outside push. We have to be clear.
Could it be now that Pluto has slipped his helmet back on, that the separation widening between those he has awoken & those still asleep will grow?
Maybe. And could it be that those awakened will be more abvious as a beacon to the others?
This conversation is amazing. It proves that the desire to understand is sincerely about.
I agree, Neith, fear remains. It's just the overpowering manipulation that might get adjustment. That's what the war on terror was all about and the symbolism of 9/11 with it's accompnying fear game was beyond the actual event called for I thought. Remember that Pluto was exactly on the USA ASC.
Pluto is unpredictable. Totally. That's why when an astrologer sees him and immediately panics, she is misreading. Now he has confused the astrologers in his unpredictable way. It's not his power that will be diminished in my view, but this habitual fear reaction.
I am living proof of his subtlety. Pluto passed the conjunction to my Moon/Jupiter, and is now stationing opposite Venus. This has been years of heavy Pluto. It has been deep, slow, and nondramatic most of the time. Pluto conjunct my Mars years ago was violent and dramatic. No way of knowing what will happen. The lesson is to not fear transformation but welcome it. Death included. Something tells me that at the very end we do go willingly.
But what's really interesting is three physical problems I've had going during the transit, and I couldn't shake them. Last week I had a climax of pain, and just in the last couple of days....poof!...they're all gone. Something tells me, since I am so heavily affected by Pluto now, that this is connected.
Well, my dad was a Scorpio...and, strange to think, five years younger than I am now. I had not worked through my youthful rebellion and was hard at work proving myself to be every ugly name he called me. (I did say he was a Scorpio...they can have brutal tongues.) So I am very careful about labeling people, firmly believing that children become what you label them as. Why is it, that every childhood sports event the fathers are on the sidelines screaming invectives at their children, while the mothers are over there yelling, "good job! That was great!"? Fathers think they are "toughening" the kid up for real life when they're just creating huge gaping wounds that will be needed to be dealt with eventually. (Like the commercial for the VW Passat where all the sports car people have big bullhorns, yelling "cuz Daddy never hugged me", etc.
My stepfather Bud was an Aquarian and very into meditating and the A.R.E. (you guys familiar with Edgar Cayce?)...he made my mom happy and was a good parent to a grown but still extremely screwed-up 20s-year-old. And 30s.
My last stepfather Tom was a Libra and a more charming, fun-loving, Irish guy you couldn't hope to meet. We all loved him immediately though it was strange for my almost-reclusive, shy, self-contained self to deal with the huge family gatherings. (I still can't all the names straight.)
ummmm...what was the question? Oh, yes, Pluto's sojourns and how it's affected my brushes with death. Well, obviously, my father was ruled by Pluto in that Scorpio way. He must have had some Libra too because he could be SO charming. But he certainly scared me off Scorpios . For the first 4 decades of my life, I only dated Leos, Sags, & fellow Pisces. And now, I suspect that only another Pisces would really understand me. If I ever wanted to face that again, which at the moment, I don't.
The odd thing about my father's death was that it wasn't a stormy day. It was a bit overcast. He had already played a round of gold and was approached by a complete stranger -- a woman -- who asked if he would partner her. She was knocked across the hole, but not hurt. It was also a course he never played at. Where's that ephemeris when you need one? Because that sounds like a Pluto-Uranus to me!
Why is it, that every childhood sports event the fathers are on the sidelines screaming invectives at their children, while the mothers are over there yelling, "good job! That was great!"? Fathers think they are "toughening" the kid up for real life when they're just creating huge gaping wounds that will be needed to be dealt with
So well put, Casey. I always think about this association with brutality and suffering, getting knocked about as hard as possible, with achievement.
That is intriguing about your father. I was wondering how the suddenness affected you and how you let go in terms of the fact that they leave when we are ready whether we know it or not.
Jm, i leave this for you, the new day that dawned with the exact hit of Pluto on USA asc....11 September namnsdag: Dagny = new day.
Here's another theory.
In our fear of death and Plutonian elimination, maybe we create these harrowing experiences believing that they will prepare us for a possibly traumatic future. Actually, maybe trauma in increments DOES help us negotiate our paths.
It still baffles me that one event...death...can have such an overpowering effect on life. I think it goes back to Hel and wholeness....and Ceres who knows both worlds intimately.
I am on pins and needles to see if Ceres eventually takes rulership of a sign.
OMG, tseka. Oh my god in heaven.
ummmm, let's see, 24 Scorpio, Moon either Cancer or Leo, merc in sag, venus in libra (ha! told you), mars in pisces, jup in sag, sat in scorpio (not conj. sun), uranus in pisces, neptune in leo, pluto in cancer...no idea of time of birth.
my, ahem, "memory" is not so good about what year he died. It was a year (or two?) before Eric was born and in the middle of june, the 16th? Either 1971 or 1972.
everything is fuzzy from way back then.
One last "odd" thing was that afternoon I was reading "Pere Goriot" by Balzac...and notice how I remember THAT! and had got to a point where a character's father died. And wondered to myself, "I wonder how it feels to lose your father?" and a half-an-hour later, the phone call came.
Casey, my god. I'm going to need a blanket for all the goose bumps coming.
That verifies that we are ready.
This is amazing--headline from my local paper today:
Pluto:now we can move on and get on with life.
mmmhmmm The Circle of Hel was once a culture that was in located in the Atlantic if you look on a map begin at Helsinki and trace up through the Karelians around the top of the Scandinavian penninsula and down to Jutland (check out all the hel and el beginnings to the towns and most relate to a mound or aspect of the old culture. Artifacts exist above the Arctic circle. The ancient stone dances that we call Henges were of them - astrological markers, the jule(wheel -calendar) is marked by energies of power; namnsdags. The Elders (El being the light keepers) hid the wisdom in plain sight from the invading Imperial Cult and later the Christians. During a transit of Pluto-that is one complete 245 years the Catholics, with a proclamation on the 19 May gate,(Namnsdag Elder) began their inquitsition, wherein they specifically named the Finn for destruction, the Finn of course being the tomte/wise elders of the North. They were believed to control the winds and the sea.
Carved stones, several millenia old, show us the image of Hel. It looks very like the yin/yang symbol.
Lenses capable of seeing far into the cosmos turned to modern day optical perfection, have been found among artifacts of a hel-mound.
I guess you can now see my interest in piecing together these fragments.
Somewhere deep in us we remember.
Omg again...elders:light keepers
And again the symbolism of the North comes in. And the Catholic destruction. What is it about Catholicism?
Yes. I do see why you pursue the puzzle. But you know what? I think the answer is somewhere in the human mind. The whole picture is there and just like people have separated in ethnic and racial groups to learn coming together again, this knowledge has also has been sifted, separated and delineated. Somewhere in the consciousness is the synthesis.
" the Finn of course being the tomte/wise elders of the North. They were believed to control the winds and the sea. "
And Finn is one of my FAVORITE names and I am madly in love with the music of the Finn brothers, Tim and Neil. Can't get their songs out of my heads. But they are from the opposite ends of the earth from Scandinavia -- New Zealand.
I love all this Nordic myth and history that you know, tseka. so rare these days to meet someone who knows this stuff.
I think that's Pluto in Sag trying to get us to see the family of man spiritual connection. The hot desert of Islam and Judaism is part of it like the the cold north wind and the ancient totems. I wonder if things will change slightly before the end.
We retain these reminders of our greatness and defy the rules daily, always seeking reunion. So while they draw blood in the desert, we are learning about Hel. Good kids that we are.
I also find it interesting that Tseka has been speaking about this for a long time. People say oooh and aaaah then quickly go back to their rage and victimization.
Suddenly this information has found a receptacle.
and...my little legacy sim just had her baby, a girl I have named Amelie (I have a strict naming convention == each sim baby gets a name starting with the first letter of the opposite sex parent's name)
Woo, hoo, Gen 5 is here!
sorry about that, I'm simming on the PC and talking to you guys on the Mac.
THE JUGGLER!
Casey, bear with me. I miss a lot. What is a sim?
I became very sleepy this afternoon, went down for a nap and had a breakthrough dream. Neptune is supposed rule dreams, but I think maybe that's daydreams...conscious dreams. Could Pluto rule dreams in the dark? Or the Moon?
Maybe Pluto has domain over healing dreams for the psyche.
jm couldn't agree more, it is all in our brain or conciousness. Likewise some of us read David Bohm's particle physics and go ohhh yesss because we recognize the patterns of similarity. But most of us do not read particle physics nor recognize the similarity, so i look at the stories and faeri tales. They remind us of our selves, we recognize, who we have been, another pattern that weaves with astrology or maybe was the precuror to it 10,000 years ago, who knows?
It's my favorite computer game -- The Sims2. You create characters and then control their little lives -- mean people often refer to it as playing with computerized little Barbies. But it's a wondrously complex, open-ended, creative game. You build and furnish their houses, they get jobs, date, marry, have kids, grow old and die. I play a special kind of challenge called the Legacy challenge where you take one family from the founding Sim through 10 generations. They have genetics so the children are realistic offspring of the two parents.
And, interestingly enough, they have personalities based on astrological signs. They can be any of six different "aspirations" in life -- family, romance, popularity, wealth, pleasure, or knowledge. (And grilled cheese -- but that is typical of the programmers' sense of humor.) They also have personalities made up of 5 different dualities -- Neat/messy; shy/outgoing; active/lazy; serious/playful; and mean/nice. These, BTW, are linked to their astrological sign. And each sim will have a life-time want -- when they work hard and attain it, they will then be permanently platinum -- always in a good mood. Otherwise their moods and needs can decay over time and it is my job, as the overlord, to make sure they spend time working towards their goals in life.
Simmers get so used to thinking in this way, that we all describe ourselves this way. I'm obviously a knowledge sim with 4 neat points, 3 shy points, 4 active points, 10 playful points, and 5 nice points. My lifetime want is probably to max all skills. (oh yes, they have different skills they can work toward -- cooking, mechanical, creative, logical, charisma, and cleaning.)
cheesy, sheepish grin.
The website where my blog is located is the official website. If you look at my SimPage, you will notice my "uploads" which are either stories, houses, or special sims I have put up on my page. My friends (and sometimes other simmers) will download them, put them in their game and rate them.
The game is an excellent microcosm and a darn good 3D building device -- every expansion pack expands our building materials. I'm very proud of my houses. And if you look at my uploaded sims, you will see my simself so you'll know what I look like. If I lost 50 pounds and was younger. sigh. surrogate living.
Oh, and I happen to read about particle physics...I love physics and astrophysics.
Could be or maybe Pluto in GC.
Galactic center known to be the big dreaming - lucid dreaming, Phil Sedgwick calls it downloading from the mainline. Pluto there is one heck of a potency. Because of my sun and merc there i get big "revelatory" or what ever the heck you want to call 'em "dreams" when anything passes over or through the GC neighborhood.
Jut wondering Pluto over Jupiter at 20 Sag - alexander- one spirit lesson. My mercury btw.
This is entirely the Pisces/Virgo axis, tseka, and it's so fascinating.
Virgo is the fragmentaion of the whole, which you have mastered and in this lifetime is the synthesis. We are all at different stages of this process, but in Pisces the full knowledge comes. The understanding of the whole.
Now we have the lunation and the full moon in Pisces will be with Uranus and the NN. We have a absolute golden opportunity.
I am not exactly sure why we have to do a complete analysis, which corresponds the separation of people by race and culture, but this must create the motivation to get back to the synthesis.
Where I think trouble comes is getting stuck in the process. It should be a smooth swinging pendulum.
Heavy Pisces is responsible for the whole.
It's written everywhere. The scientists are on the Virgo end, the stories deal in metaphor and probably the synthesis since they touch universal emotional chords.
OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mercury at 20!!!!!! OMG once again!
Casy, this is fascinating. I have something to talk to you about on all of this.
It's so amazing, tseka. My jupiter at 20 is impossible for so many to comprehend because it is so large and beyond in scope. It gets into all my converstion. Your Merc is right there. No explanation. No struggle.
It's so funny. Our mental suitcases are always packed.
So it makes perfect sense that the stories would be the Choice, leaving some of the SN Virgo scientific explanation behind.
I'm headed out for some lettuce so there will be a cyberbreak in my part of the discussion. This is so good I can hardly believe my Jupiterian good fortune. I'm so glad Pluto can relax. Being a planet in our human system can be trying. lucky guy getting off the hook.
And again the symbolism of the North comes in. And the Catholic destruction. What is it about Catholicism?
Perhaps because the Imperial Cult of Rome began destroying the previous culture of the North. They brought us the patriarchy and the mercantile group basically set up the fiefdoms, a lot of the Aurthurian legends were just about this, the Nights of the round table were the enforcers, the kingdoms existed at their pleasure. Later that group became more identified with the Catholic Church. As least this is my reading of history. Differing methods of population control, resource allocation for differnt eras.
Now we are sliding into a new era and we look again to see what models we remember in our DNA to guide us. Many folk are bringing up the goddess but i am hopeful for a synthesis, a union, for a hel to occur. When two complete parts reside in complement, a whole, we are in Hel, order that comes after chaos. If we choose only one side then we do keep swinging.
I am not seeking peace, peace is statis, i am seeking creativity, that is love. i think it has a better chance than peace as an alternative to strife, chaos, war.
Now we are sliding into a new era and we look again to see what models we remember in our DNA to guide us. Many folk are bringing up the goddess but i am hopeful for a synthesis, a union, for a hel to occur. When two complete parts reside in complement, a whole, we are in Hel, order that comes after chaos. If we choose only one side then we do keep swinging.
I am not seeking peace, peace is statis, i am seeking creativity, that is love. i think it has a better chance than peace as an alternative to strife, chaos, war.
ah tseka - you nailed it again!!! That's why I feel you as the bass line in our song! jm is soprano, casey & i are altos, mezzo-soprano, Joe is baritone . . . well, anyway, the harmony created is sublime!!! And we always have room for more singers to come in too. There is an a cappella group called "Honey in the Rock" I had the extreme good fortune to hear live sometime in the early '80's. One of the more wondrous musical experiences I've ever had! All those rich voices rolling around each other . . . amazing.
Do you have a link to other information of Hel? What I'm finding is very limited. BTW, that Finland was the only country I've ever spent any real time in doesn't sound like much of coincidence, does it?! I read what i could find in English on the Kalevala . . . whoosh . . grim, determined beings!
Hahahahahaha i'm laughing my head off, me the bass! heeheee, I love the metaphor but if you could see me, i am sort of a whisper of a woman, 5'7" and just now 105 lbs and proud of it after years of being as much as 20 pounds less. You'd not guess it though, must be half fairy in my family, we are all tall and thin, wiry, strong can run like the wind and eat like loggers all. Much to the chagrin of my ex-partner who sat for 30 years bemoaning my appitite while he an athletic 6'3" watched every particle. I can't even imagine a bass note coming out of me, a burp perhaps, a belly laugh....i can't carry a note, one of my son's first acts was to put his hand over my mouth as i was singing him to sleep. Can i be a mascot? i dance.
As to Hel she has been pretty hidden, i lost all of my bookmarks recently when i lost both my computers, not one, can you believe my fortune? Now i have a CD burner and i am getting better prepared. I have a few bookmarks on my other computer in the studio. If you aren't in a hurry i e-mail you something after my show, prompt me will you? i'd love to share but it will take a bit to put some sites together.
Ah the Kalevala, what a story! no i am certain you weaving in Finland was no mistake at all.
i think we hear Hel hear in this part of the Kalevala:
Many runes the cold has told me
Many lays the rain has brought me,
Other songs the winds have sung me;
Many birds from many forests,
Oft have sung me lays n concord
Wave of sea, and ocean billows, Music from the many waters
Music from the whole creation
Oft have been my guide and master.
Sentences the trees created.
Rolled together into bundles,
Moved them to my ancient dwelling,
On the sledges to my cottage,
Tied them to my garret rafters,
Hung them on my dwelling-portals,
Laid them in a chest of boxes,
Boxes lined with shining copper,
Long they lay within my dwelling
Through the chilling winds of winter,
In my dwelling place for ages.
This speaks of how she is preparing to keep the wisdom through the long cycle when her world goes "behind the ice"
Telepathy! Lettuce was on sale for $.88 and I didn't "know "it! Perfect for the artist's budget. I've got to catch up here.
OMG! OMG! OMG! Honey in the Rock!
I love yor musical analogy Neith.
O MY GAAAAWD.
5'7" and just now 105 lbs and proud of it after years of being as much as 20 pounds less.
You must eat the fattening foods and desserts at our dinners, tseka.
am not seeking peace, peace is statis, i am seeking creativity, that is love. i think it has a better chance than peace as an alternative to strife, chaos, war.
Very very very interesting statement.
You are right. creativity is not peace. But it is so self involved, that hurtful interaction ceases. What a fantastic topic. The illusions of peace and it's place. There is no such thing really in the movement of life and the constant conflict somewhere. The polarity that never stops seeking balance and keeps nonbalance going. maybe it's where we place the conflict. O I love this line of thought.
it's so interesting the musical breakdown. I have a deep voice but I can sing very high. This is what I love about cyberspace. We are perceived without the physical prejudice and different parts of us emerge. So fascinating how free we are to perceive.
The poem is gorgeous and since I love the cold and all the metaphors associated with the North and ice, I am joyous at the moment.
I especially like this for some reason:
Laid them in a chest of boxes,
Boxes lined with shining copper,
Long they lay within my dwelling
Through the chilling winds of winter,
In my dwelling place for ages.
I love copper along with the cold. Symbolism anyone?
Getting sleepy, guys. getting those little simulated toddlers potty trained, talking & walking will take it out of ya.
nighty-nite.
Ha Ha Ha! Casey. Don't overblog and neglect the children!
Sweet dreams.
The following stanza asks if she should bring the songs from the cold and frost take them from their boxes
Shall i now this end unfasten
Of this ball of ancient wisdom
These ancestral lays unravel?
Let me sing an old-time legend,
~~~
it goes on for some hundred more lines...
Among the NW Coast indians the myth says Copper was a "gift" brought whole to from the sea. Copper woman was the "first" woman she arrived after the floods and her daughters were the mothers of the five races.
No wonder. The cold, the songs, wisdom.
Most of my life has passed and with what I have left, I must immerse myself in the ancient wisdom and the act of creating. The songs.
I don't know exactly how these people around me fit in, the beautiful ones, of course, are inspiration, but the rest...the politicians and all...what am I to do with them? Ignore them almost entirely? As they pull and pull the undertow.
This is conflict. And I will triumph.
oh and Copper symbolizes the SUN for NW coast natives
Shall i now this end unfasten
Of this ball of ancient wisdom
What a question.
Of course. But the red hue has significance. Is there a lot of copper in Blood? Where is it found mostly in the body?
interesting thought ja in the blood.
You remind me that the hapliod group of our DNA which says where we came from our is carried by mother's blood.
That goes along with the mother as the original source. It is interesting. I identified so I thought with my father, but as time goes on, there is something primordial that runs through me from my mother that I become increasingly aware of.
night, jm, warm thoughts around you, and sweet dreaming
Copper is the metal associated with Venus.
What a great discussion this is. JM, your analysis of Pluto was by far the best I've seen anywhere, because it goes past the meaningless scientific label and gets to the symbolism. New, expanded minds are creating a new world. Creation never comes out of a vacuum, but from the decay of previous creation that had outlived its usefulness.
Tseka, I so love all the nordic mythology. I spent a year in Sweden and felt the magic of the north. I have often wondered if there is a window way up there where cosmic energy enters the planet and then circulates around the globe through the ley lines. I don't know. Just a thought.
What an interesting day. Now I know how significant this Pluto situation is. Revelations are everywhere.
I do feel he has left us on our own. Some(most) are extremely frightened thinking the wrath of the government is really coming down now and that we have descended further into hell.
How different we all are. I feel just the opposite. That we have been liberated in some sense from hell. It must be me. And since I am in Pluto station, I feel it strongly.
How can so many miss it? This lesson that is asking for some fresh and unique perspective. This wonderful sudden jolt. And what makes the difference for those who seize the uniqueness of the moment? have we already lived through this?
Where exactly is this hell that people are referring to? It's here, of course, already, in between all the other experiences. What purpose the group fear?
Pat! What a joyous surprise!
Thank you for Venus.
This is all so exciting. A special moment.
Pat, I've never felt victimized by Pluto, God, life, people, anything but myself. My own demons. Pluto is as neutral as the color tan/gray.
I am quite amazed at the fear around this event on the other astro sights. I am so glad you get it.
It does frustrate me since I wish that the whole would advance at this moment and see the beauty of myth, astrology, and life. The knock from heaven on our door. But that is too greedy on my part. I have to let them come at will.
My you've been busy today!I'll be catching up soon, but here's an interesting tidbit, maybe the naughty oughties might just be firing up!:)
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2006-08-25T141009Z_01_N24453414_RTRUKOC_0_US-VERMONT-NUDE.xml
HA HA HA HA HA!
Juno that is fabulous! What spirit! Thanks for the lift!
O that's funny.
Hi Pat!!! jm's blog is always full of surprises & fun energy!! Shoot, a person can leave the room for 15 minutes & come back and find a whole new post!!
This really is a fantastic discussion evolving from Pluto. BTW, tseka, it's your spirit that provides the bass line . . . the one that solidly supports the rest! Though if you're pleased to be back to 105 . . . you must have been scary thin! I'll be happy to share some of my extra poundage . . . :-)
oh and Copper symbolizes the SUN for NW coast natives
They must have loved it . . . it doesn't rust like so many other metals do in salt air!
Neith, man!!!!
You're up!!!
You're full of surprises too. Never know when you'll appear and disappear. You are the blithe spirit. That's so right about tseka and the bass line. That bass is the underlying rhythm and balast.
Hey! It's not every day that a planet leaves the system!!!
Pat, I've never felt victimized by Pluto, God, life, people, anything but myself. My own demons. Pluto is as neutral as the color tan/gray.
This is an excellent point,jm. I too am a firm believer that we create our own "hell". So many times humans have this overwhelming need to analyze & categorize in an attempt to contain something that is intrinsically uncontainable. ooh, did that make sense?! I have spent much of my life going "why waste all those resources & time when the obvious solution is to just accept & let be . . ."
Now I too have to retire . . . many, many things to do this weekend!! :-)
Here's a bit more humor, pluto related this time from Eric Francis's site:
http://www.planetwavesweekly.com/resources/earth_not_a_planet.html
Very interesting discussion. I've certainly learned much more about the plutonian archetype than I knew before...Bravo all!
"Hey! It's not every day that a planet leaves the system!!!" That must be why I'm out-of-sorts today...
"Many folk are bringing up the goddess but i am hopeful for a synthesis, a union, for a hel to occur. When two complete parts reside in complement, a whole, we are in Hel, order that comes after chaos. If we choose only one side then we do keep swinging."
So true, so true, thank you Tseka
A belated 'nite to tseka and to you neith. Sleep well. Things are getting exciting.
Juno I agree. This goddess stuff is silly. Women have held power all along. Choosing sides, us against them, all that nonsense is for sports and games.
And from my daily paper:
Once you put Pluto in the dwarf-planet category, philosophically you have crossed the Rubicon. You've crossed the place where people didn't dare go before.
Boulder scientist Bill Bottke
Pluto just changed astrology permanently. We are no longer locked into the tight planetary system. This has been a long time in the making.
Now we can use what works individually. Some have been hesitant to use Chiron, asteroids, and all the varied bodies, but now we can go full speed ahead to interpret charts the way that resonates with us.
Some will use Pluto, I will, and some might not. There is a lot of choice.
What Pluto has delivered is freedom.
And that certainly could scare some.
The science of astrology is henceforth transformed. Read away O mighty astrologers.
Pluto knows exactly what he's doing.
An historic moment for sure.
ya snooze, ya lose, I guess! Wow, more tidbits to feast on.
This goddess stuff is silly. Women have held power all along. Choosing sides, us against them, all that nonsense is for sports and games.
True, jm, but I think once the novelty of having a bona fide Goddess the Mother wears off, the nonsense will fade.
Tseka, thanks for sharing the Kalevala. I will have to study that passage you quoted. It sounds very portentous. Now there's a great word for what's going on all around us lately!
BTW: There's an annual Nordic Roots Festival here in the cities in September that I've never been to but they have produced a play called "Kalevala or the Salmon Maiden" or something like that.
Tseka, any chance that there's a connection between Hel and the Hellenes, the ancient name for the Greeks? There's a Hellespont in the myth of Jason and the Argonauts, as I recall.
Good morning,
Hej, Joe
any chance that there's a connection between Hel and the Hellenes, the ancient name for the Greeks? There's a Hellespont in the myth of Jason and the Argonauts, as I recall.
Yes, indeed. Some believe that Odin who was a trickster type (mercury) stole the Runes (that part of the Kalevala quoted is singing of the Runes) which were never to belong to men. The runes coming into the hands of men was prophecied to bring an eon of destruction. Odin left the circle of Hel and carried the magic down the Steppes into the mid-east. Remember the stories of the titan haired nordic types the Greeks say brought them their stories? I do not really know there are ten million ways to interpret anything from antiquity.
Seems we set up a model then urge our "facts" into it until something revolutionary occurs to force us to re-evaluate. Very little credit is given to culture coming from the North, yet an interesting thing- plant life appears to have begun there then flowed south carrying animals with the food.
i just observe the similarities of all circumpolar myth, native american, norsk, vedic, taoist and see how that differs from the south, nearly same archetypes but reversed gender.
Tseka.
Now is the time you tell you my theory of the future. I think there has been a primordial battle between the North nd the South. In the I Ching, the South is retreat, the North, advance.
Isn't it in histroy that the Nothern peoples were the fiercest warriors?
My theory is that the conflict eventually will be between the Southern and the Northern hemispheres. The North has dominated entirely.
Also, with he next Ice Age, the population distribution will change and most likely people will move closer to the equator from both sides.
just observe the similarities of all circumpolar myth, native american, norsk, vedic, taoist and see how that differs from the south, nearly same archetypes but reversed gender.
Another fascinating fact.
The vortex is reversed north and south.
oh wow. I'm interested in this latest development...
Question for you, jm, triggered by the comment about the next Ice Age. What's your take on global warming?
I ask because a friend told me of a independent documentary called "The Coming Ice Age" which shows that humans flourished in a relative warming trend for the last several centuries. Essentially, we're coming out of an ice age in a grand dance of warming and cooling.
Any thoughts on this in relation to the north/south topic you and Tseka are on?
Absolutely joe. One of my favorite topics.
According to the wobble of the earth's axis, the precession of the equinoxes, we have an Ice Age every 11,500 years. I think we are due, but this fact could use a check.
Some believe that there is volcanic activity under the ocean preceding this and a heating of the earth's surface. Don't know myself. I do know that about 95% of the ocean floor is unexplored.
I don't worry about global warming. The earth has been this warm before and she adjusted. In fact, all of life is adjustment and I have complete faith that this will be solved.
The real scientists, sans political agenda, are uncertain whether this is a natural cycle or not. There is no way of knowing. We can't go back and delete the hydrocarbons and experiment.
And it really doesn't matter. We are not in charge. the earth will do what she does along with the cosmic direction. So all this FEAR! around global warming is wasted agony in my view, although the habit changes will have to happen and alternative fuels along with everything else that's wise. The panic might be necessary though to waken the sleepers, But I am confident we will know what to do as it unfolds.
MORE important is not to fall for the political hype. It interferes with proper action, melodramatic movies included.
I'm not sure about the ice Age cycle so we could learn that now. But there is a regular rhythm.
Joe.
This is really one of my main things. The egomaniacal view that man is in charge, governments are in charge, rulers are in charge, and that man can destroy the earth. I even question if man can really destroy hinself, the survival instinct is so powerful.
We are all in a dynamic system in constant flux and no one is in charge. The more we dance with the rhythms of life the more healthy and productive we will be and as a collective, we will know our humble place in the universe, not to diminish personal pride.
I can't wait for the panic to pass. Like a movie I once saw, Panic in Needle Park, where the junkies lost their drug connection, the addiction to terror could be acting up with the reality of the stimulant being reduced soon.
Yes jm!
Hi ya Joe,
i've been calling it eco-armegeddon for awhile, enviros using same terror tactics as the politicians. Or er are they just politicians as well? Must be so they are making orth extreme yin /South extreme Yang.
Thpolicies.
A friend spent 6 years in Antartica as scientific support for a project to show how the ozone hole is progressing and we are heading for disaster....while he still believes this is true the data did not hold up to scrutiny.
my approach is to give as much love care and attention as possible to what is around me, treat my environment as a beloved living relative.
oops sorry i didn't get all that cleaned out i wanted to post a second comment to your NOrth South post, it's coming
We are not headed for disaster. That's all part of the game.
We are already in disaster. Disaster happens all the time in spots as well as great things. Always will.
You are so right, tseka.
The eco-armageddon. I love it!
See everybody or somebodys tonite!! A lot to talk about.
I'm working on a broken laptop the refurb one arrives next week this one does wonky things all the time and the lid is broken so it is hard to read. i so apoligize for not making sense, i often don't but not becasue i leave dangling trash....
Here goes again.
North / South, so interesting JM,i have been pondering for a while as i wash up and clean the litter box....
My thoughts about the four directions are coloured by native wisdom and i think i have overlaid that on my understanding of the Tao or I Ching when they speak of North or South i think in terms of energy.
One can see them as polarities or one can see them as complements. The North side of a river is Yang in full sun. The South side in shade is Yin but they meet seamlessly in the river.
The tantra of Masculine and Feminine.
~~~~
In Native wisdom
North is
Sky/ Moon
Disease associated is Tuberculosis
The foundation cycle is Psora benevolent.
Mental: inward, malaise, creativty, dependent
Physical: outward, lungs, skin
Season/ time: winter, night, mid-night to mid-day
Landscape: folded, mountains
Lesson: Optimism
exhaustion, waste, paradoxical
The South
is sun /air
The foundation cycle (diseases it associates to) is venereal specifically syphilis
dangerous
Mental:
Outward; anger, desire, ego aggressive
Physical: inward; ulcerations,
Season time: summer, midday, sunset to sunrise
landscape: folded/ inland mountains, the lesson: Qwest
contention, motion, destruction, dysfunction.
Absolutely fascinating tseka. Oh my god.
This goes with my North and South node!
No wonder I love the North so much. I love the winter, do not like the summer.
Season/ time: winter, night, mid-night to mid-day
Landscape: folded, mountains
Lesson: Optimism
exhaustion, waste, paradoxical
Wow. does that fit me.
so apoligize for not making sense, i often don't but not becasue i leave dangling trash....
Ha Ha! I think apologies might be more appropriate for making sense!
If your connections are strong, tseka, maybe we can delve into the polarities more tonight. You are being tapped right now. There is so much knowledge in you. It must be revealed.
This is absolutely wonderful and heaven sent. I had an inkling.
Thank you for disseminating so generously. So much more to come.
k, glad to give whatever...
this was out of the addendum of my disseration, my big thing is seeing how the patterns build, disease is another lesson of the spirit and i have been thinking about what you said about pluto as a healer, there's some stuff to be mined there not just the Scorpio aspect of it but the -meeting death aspect of healing. Surviving small deaths.
im having fits with the cursor.
How's the cursor doing, speaking of cursing!
Tseka, I can't tell you how much I love this subject!!! Disease as lesson of the spirit. And the ongoing small deaths they indicate.
That's why I thik lots of small things, like colds, headaches, and the like are a good sign as they are processing as we go, and providing the infinite small deaths we need.
Sometimes a major confrontation is required with a big disease, but it can be worked out both ways.
In a way these ailments are like coming up in increments, a sort of peristalsis through life, and going to the big death prepared.
Pluto is our guide to and in the underworld. I love Carlos castenada's view of death being on our left shoulder all our lives protecting us. Maybe Pluto is this ally, not the enemy so many are afraid of. The enemy is ourselves.
I also think Pluto as a guide through the darkness of our subconscious, probably with the Moon, is a sign that disease is connected.
Sickness originates in the psyche and eludes understanding. The symbol of physicians, the caduceus, is Plutonian and Scorpionic, with the wings of the phoenix, and the serpents.
Maybe the change will bring the emphasis of Pluto away from war and people and direct it into internal mysteries.
Maybe Pluto is this ally, not the enemy so many are afraid of. The enemy is ourselves.
YES!!! Eureka!! Bless you, jm . . . you have hit on a key point in the best way to view Pluto & Charon! Pluto is our ally in self-discovery. He is only bringing to light knowledge we need to process in order to become better human beings!
26 August
Sometimes I feel like the noble savage in Brave New World, as though Dr. Strangelove is waiting for us in the Orwellian Ministry of Truth and Peace. I’m coming to an ever stronger realisation that I just don’t believe that the world is as it is presented to me. Either I’m sane and most of the rest of the world is mad, or I’m raving and the world is sane. But it’s typical Saturn/Neptune spin, the hype, the terror and the illusion of fear, and with Jupiter hamming it up big time the escalation is intensifying. I think that bubbles are about to burst, that hard reality is going to dawn for a number of people, and that revelations are in store. Every so often, there’s a nexus point, a point where a common occurrence can release a wave of accelerated consciousness planet wide. I think that the coming few days represent such a time, a prelude to 2010. Grab that wave and surf it!
From Steve Judd . . . one great Cancer to another . . . jm!! BTW, I think you are both quite sane!
Neith, I think this is especially significant for you and all others who have so much Scorpio. You are being called to do the higher part of Pluto now. I am sure. Allay the fears, get down and heal, face the inner truth, and go on to rebirth.
I know full well you are doing this for me.
Long story with my SN in Scorp. We'll cover it all, with Pluto's expert guidance.
well, late here too...I feel a fair expert on global warming, since I've watched the documentaries and read some too.
The current problem (and it's a problem that has accelerated greatly over the past two decades) is that the cold parts of the world are melting. Beneath the glaciers of Antarctica and Greenland, there are stream beds. Eventually whole shelves of ice break off and fall into the sea.
The great concern is that the natural conveyor belt ocean currents that take warm water from the tropics to the North Sea (aka the Gulf Stream) will stall. If this happens, then northern Europe's climate will become MUCH colder and the U.S. will become drier.
The immediate affect could be devastatingly frigid conditions as early as 2012 (there's that number again).
Boy, I can't wait for the seasonal astro salon around the equinox next month. The facilitator will really have to scramble to put her presentation together what with Pluto.
Casey, I brought up global warming because it, along with peak oil, high cholesterol, bird flu, and other sensationalistic hysterias, appear to be illusions. On my LiveJournal, prior to ever finding AstroWorld and then PiChronic, I was discounting and downplaying many of the hysterias that were getting overly hyped. Few people commented, but I like to think I allayed a few minds teetering on the edge of panic.
I brought up global warming because it, along with peak oil, high cholesterol, bird flu, and other sensationalistic hysterias, appear to be illusions.
Beautifully said. Sensationalist hysterias. How many times do we have to see dire predictions fizzle into nothing to see how illusory they are?
I think it's time, joe, to really get to the task at hand and neutralize these fears.
I like to think I allayed a few minds teetering on the edge of panic.
Big job ahead.
How many times do we have to see dire predictions fizzle into nothing to see how illusory they are?
I think it's time, joe, to really get to the task at hand and neutralize these fears.
No kidding, jm. I appear to have dedicated myself to bringing people to their senses and pointing out politically-oriented idiocy whenever possible. I'm not sure where this is coming from, because for the longest time, I was a wallflower, a housemouse, kept to the well-trod paths. Something shifted in the last seven or eight years...
Joe. It was the Pluto transit opposite your Saturn in the 1st that brought the big change, and I'm so glad it did. You are extremely intelligent and have an unusaul grasp of meaning. A total love of dialog. How you get out of your personal confines and fit into the human discussion is your life lesson and you're learning that in a big way now. A little later I'll explain the whole Saturn thing right here. It's important for you.
appear to have dedicated myself to bringing people to their senses and pointing out politically-oriented idiocy whenever possible.
I think this is the sign of the times. I too came out to do something about the political idiocy, which I've never saw much hope in. But I think there is a new learning curve developing and a chance for improvement. That's why we got drawn out. And it is a responsible position.
Bill Herbst said much the same thing, in addition to the "independent study" I'm apparently doing in the classroom of life, focusing on the nature of power.
Joe.
In 1997 Pluto entered your first houe at 4 degrees Gemini and started the biggest transformation of your life. Then in the end of winter/spring of 2003, Pluto came to your Saturn and made a very important station(stop in one degree as it changes direction), and stayed in the vicinity till the fall of '04. You have changed.
Gem rising is the writer/speaker/teacher, and Saturn puts up the wall. What happens is that people often invalidate what you say, you think you might not know enough, that people will find you out, that you can't find the exact words to express yourself, etc., ending up in isolation, not saying anything. Fear of being misunderstood or underestimated.
Those days are over. And with Saturn, the person usually has exceptional skills but the block has to be overcome.
You DO have exceptional skills, and the careful measured way of expressing your ideas is an asset as long as it doesn't stop the output.
It's no wonder that after this transit you found us, with heavy Gemini and good communication skills. We help you come out of yourself and totally appreciate you. The block has been overcome, although it's always somewhat of a struggle to find the ears to receive your ideas.
When the invalidation comes, it's really your own inner voice and should be taken in stride as you always search for the best word, the best phrase, and the most intelligent audience.
Here we are. Feel free to speak up to your heart's content. I assure you, you are highly respected around these parts.
And most important, the expression will naturally help bring people to their senses. We will never ever have a good government and society if this doesn't happen.
I can't believe it!!!! We were posting at the exact same time!
The power aspect is your ego(Sun), and in Scorpio, the ego takes pride in visceral, deep penetration of the other, making them really get it, no doubt. Gemini is not like this per se, so it's a challenge to find the articulation that expresses the force you feel. And the kernel of truth Scorpio likes.
Scorps like people to be in awe of them, so the words have to match this impulse. Also, Scorpio can hurt with this penetration so they have to learn how to use the power constructively. Or sometimes the power is so great, they withhold entirely.
All in all, your words have power and can influence people, which you should do. Help them see and transform themselves.
You and Bill Herbst share the Scorpio/Capricorn penetrating, serious traits, and that's part of why he resonates with you so much.
When you read his articles you can see yourself. Notice how he always sets himself apart from the other astrologers as though he's privy to some secret understanding. He seems to be in some ways.
He's not nonsensical and hocus pocus like so many of them, and he refrains from too much fear mongering. He has wide scope and lots of empirical fact in his articles. He's logical, sequential, and has an authoritarian air about him that's convincing.
Most of the time I'm left with a pretty honest assessment and slight optimism.
I like your use of language, better, however.
ROFL!!!
I like your use of language, better, however.
jm, if you only knew the irony of what you just said! I'm sitting here snickering over that line because, when I had my chart read by Bill Herbst 2 years ago, I was a bit put off by his excessive swearing during the 1:1 analysis. I'm not usually put off by cursing and in fact probably use it more than I should in certain settings. But if you're giving a professional reading, it creates a negative impression.
As for the rest, I have to digest your words, and will comment later, but I do appreciate them! :o)
How proeminent is Neptune in your chart...?
(I ask with no sarcasm.)
dunyazade! Welcome!
You are right on the money. I am an Aries rising and my ruler Mars is conjunct Neptune, making it very prominent. Every action in my life is affected by Neptune, which has its plusses and minuses. It takes me forever to get anywhere as convoluted as my path is.
I also have a Mercury square Neptune, so my thoughts and words are laced with his influence.
I read your profile and guess what? I didn't understand a word of it! Except that you're a Leo!
Oh, and also, the Neptune squares my IC and MC. My father was a Pisces.
Wow - I'm getting better at this, lol.
I have neptune rx in my 1st house conj. ceres and juno. I have no idea of what it means :p Maybe I need fantasy to "nurture" myself... (or something of the sort).
******
Dunyazade, you are right.
Maybe I need fantasy to "nurture" myself
Also the world around you sees the fantasy in you. The more you develop it, the better. Great acting skills with Leo, not necessarily onstage.
My greatest friend was a Leo with Neptune in the first, and artist, and a magician to others. A spirit.
Here we go, jm…
In 1997 Pluto entered your first houe at 4 degrees Gemini and started the biggest transformation of your life.
I struck out on my own and moved to Minneapolis in 1997, taking a huge risk because I felt pulled to be there. Shortly thereafter, I met Mark and nothing stayed the same. In retrospect, it was like a lot of events got backed up in the pipeline and once the blockage opened up, everything shot out. I got into a relationship, bought a house, went to school, and various minor events all took place in a twinkling.
Then in the end of winter/spring of 2003, Pluto came to your Saturn and made a very important station and stayed in the vicinity till the fall of '04.
I finished school in 2002, started working as a one-to-one interpreter (of sorts… never for me to be the same as everyone else) in Dec. 2003 for a student who is deaf and blind. It was a very discouraging, difficult and only occasionally rewarding job, and I should not have stayed as long as I did, but my stubbornness led me to think I could make the bad situation better. It taught me that there are some things that are out of my control. I dealt with the student’s very bullying and domineering mother on a daily basis and it wore me down to the point that I have withdrawn from that area of my career just to recover. Talk about learning about power! Power plays were all over the place, and I made a few myself. I wish I had not taken that job but what’s done is done.
I’ve really got to learn about transits, as Neith said elsewhere, but where to find the time… maybe this winter when other things slow down. Wondering what your take on this will be. :o)
That is something joe. All you have to do is learn the language and other astrologers will teach you as you go. The canned predictions don't mean much.
It's a great idea to get into it this winter and I plan to. I don't want you to miss this opportunity to learn from me.
Astrologers are generous with their knowledge and there is a lifetime of learning for all of us. No hurry. The wonderful thing is that every bit of information is useful. And people already know somewhere in the chip and it comes out of the self as the learning progresses.
This will be fun, too.
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