Monday, July 16, 2007

The Moon and Uranus

The Cancer-Aquarius lunation I wrote about earlier has received some attention regarding Moon-Uranus contacts, so I'm taking the opportunity to elaborate.
People often see these aspects and think immediately of problems with the mother, the family, forming close bonds, and breaking connections abruptly, along with an excitable emotional nature. While all these might happen there are always reasons which tie in to the rest of the chart.

Many times a Moon-Uranus aspect will indicate a mother that suddenly wasn't there and then reappeared in unpredictable patterns. I have a Moon in the 9th opposite Uranus in the 3rd house, and this incident illustrates the scenario well.
One night when I was a young girl I was alone at home with my mother. She was off somewhere and I was watching television. A very disturbing program came on, and I called out and went looking for her. She was not in the house. She'd slipped out and gone up the street to visit a neighbor (3rd house Uranus) without telling me. I had no choice but to deal with my fear alone. Panic quickly ended.
These repeated lessons (separations through travel as well: 9th house moon) aided me in my later life with my Cancer 4th house sun, Aries rising, and the north node in the 1st. I learned emotional independence to prepare for what was up ahead. And because of this I'm able to receive nurturing from strangers as I did the other day in the dentist's office. It will be especially important as I start the public part of my incarnation and will need safe contacts as a Cancer 4th house Sun in an often uncaring world. So this is how the Moon-Uranus has helped me develop well in order to actualize my potential. I established freedom from my mother from the beginning.
Let's look at Joe, who has a Moon-Uranus square and a south node in Cancer. He's learning the hard way how to gain emotional distance from his family, and as painful as it is, the Uranus contact also is teaching him independence. He keeps trying to reestablish the protection, but something always sabotages the connection. That's when the square comes in handy. When the intimacy breaks up, he can rely on this innate emotional autonomy to see him through and cope with the fear. Again, he will have the ability to form close relationships out in the world when Pluto comes to his Capricorn stellium.
Lastly we have The_ Ninth_ Immortal who has the opposite situation .... north node in the 4th house. Coming home to the self and finding deep emotional connection. So why the Uranus square? Well it just so happens that Ninth has Saturn in Cancer (more lessons of closeness) in the 11th house of the collective. In this case, the separations from home and the mother provide encouragement to form the close bonds needed with friends and associates. The aim is to nurture the world encouraging growth in everyone, rather than just the family tribe. Moon in the 11th is the natural Moon-Uranus placement, so it's a perfect setup.
All Moon-Uranus aspects teach emotional freedom, among other things, and an advanced application of the maternal instinct along nontraditional lines.
The horoscope is a perfect mandala meant only for the child born into the wheel. Everything works together as a unit. There are other forces involved, but the integrity of the natal chart is a universal map for humans to help see and position themselves. I think because one is so impressionable at birth with no experience yet in the earthly dimension, the chart impacts the individual enormously as a representation of the cosmic alignment. Every step forward from that point is an interaction between the person and the wheel, so conscious development can be ours if we so choose. Everything in the chart is designed to encourage the realization of potential, so "bad" aspects and "good" aspects are equal.

97 Comments:

Anonymous The_Ninth_Immortal said...

Dear JM, thank you for your immensely helpful post on Moon/Uranus contacts and the house parallels.

I think that, given my own life's challenges, yes, I very much have had to offer the natural family-building skills to those outside my immediate 'clan'. But to a great part, that's suited me, since I have found my own family - despite our ongoing, inseparable connection - often stifling and burdensome.

Perhaps, as you suggest, emotional independence is the key to cultivating the means with which to nurture and watch over a more universal family.

My appreciation again to you.

16/7/07 5:31 AM  
Blogger meristem said...

OK. Time to break the silent spell. This post tore me open.

Mother, JM as you mentioned to me some time ago, is something for me to be reckoning with right now. My own mom and Mother. Indeed, she is the last frontier for me in finding the gifts from the pain and challenges of my relationships with my parents (all three of them). Something wouldn't let me go there -to mother, my mother- for the longest time. Of late I have been able to own my feelings around that particular relationship without guilt or hesitation. Perhaps I feel sufficiently adult, womanly and less child-like? I can look at her as equal rather than all-powerful?

Also in the last 4-6 months to an intense degree but really starting about a year ago, I have been undergoing a radical paradigm shift as regards my feelings toward and about relationships. All relationships: to friends, to self, to parents, to strangers, to world, to collective, to spirit(uality)/cosmos, to romantic partners, to love....

I would like to know more about what my chart indicates because I have been given amazing gifts through this, orchestrated beautifully (I can appreciate them more immediately than ever and not through the distant reflection of time passed); I want to take this opportunity to learn more about astrology through the crucible of personal experience.

I've never given this info to you, I don't think:
Sept. 15 1970
Cols. OH 9:20pm

The way you know astrology is the way it makes sense to me and I have such respect for your wisdom and experience; my respect soars with your gifts of eloquent expression and distillation. It comes from your cells, it feels so fundamental and integrated coming from you. I wouldn't open myself to interpretation or input from someone whom I didn't trust or respect; you have the qualites of straight-forward dispassionate interpretation as well as an inspired awe for the high level of knowledge and information contained therein. It is sacred in a way.

So please peruse my map and help me navigate if you please.
I appreciate any insight you care to offer...

with gratitude

16/7/07 7:34 AM  
Anonymous chrispito said...

Hi Meristem!

Jm I just had a quick question: what of sextile aspects? Can they be incorporated in the same way to one's understanding? They are probably what I understand the least. I have Uranus on my MC (Scorpio) sextile Capricorn Moon in the 1st.
I can definately relate to what you had to say about Mother, although it was me who ran away in the end, as I think I told you before.

16/7/07 8:56 AM  
Blogger kj said...

Good Morning, Everyone! @;-)

16/7/07 8:57 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Ninth, thank you for inspiring me to speak up and continue really getting to the truth. A breakthrough has occurred for me and you came just at the right time.

This is all amazing. I've known for a long time about my great great gifts as an astrologer and I've not known at all what to do. Very very confusing. I can't take money for it so a professional practice is out of the question. That dynamic diminishes the "sacred" strength. I've withheld it for years disseminating only to those who really wanted it and were advanced already. I read charts in an entirely unique way and every one humbles me completely. Astrology is one of the greatest magical tools given to us as a species. People resist it in truth.

So I am beside myself with surprise and astonishment that this knowledge is finding a receptacle in the public. What is this saying? Are we raedy? Am I ready? A lot to ponder.

It comes from your cells, it feels so fundamental and integrated coming from you.

It does. I have always known these things and the astrological language just gave me the way to articulate. I feel it first. From inside to out. The books and articles stop being necessary long ago. They intrude now.

Your Moon in Aries, meristem, is more powerful than even I can say. I will gladly analyze your chart.
This is astrologers' and everyone's biggest mistake. they underestimate the charts and themselves. We are all mighty. The potency of Aries is almost incomprehensible and there is a good reason your female image is tied into this power. Very difficult to handle.

I want to take this opportunity to learn more about astrology through the crucible of personal experience.

Gorgeous statement. The way all learning is assimilated.

I don't use sextiles, chrispito. I just blend the energies and see how they all relate. Everything can be incorporated to enhance understanding, but it's best not to follow textbook analyses.

Uranus on my MC (Scorpio) sextile Capricorn Moon in the 1st.

There is a story here way beyond the fact that it's a sextile. I'll look at it since Capricorn Moons have big ambitions and feelings of social responsibility. This ties into your MC.

Good morning kj!

16/7/07 2:06 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Astrology really is sacred, meristem, and it had been painful to witness its desecration. But that's normal human behavior. I have to overlook it. It happens with all things sacred, it seems.

I am enthused and disturbed at the same time by all of this pouring from me. From the beginning of my life I've had an overwhelming urge to cut through the falseness, the thickness around me. People misguiding people and trying to convince themselves of anything. Paying for and elevating the worst of human production, when the best is also available. The spiritual babble that is so revered.

This has not made me popular. But I will no longer let this scare me. Astrology is too important to me.

Astrology has always inspired me without fail, more than anything I know. So I had to do my best in the relationship with such a grand entity. It's far and above all other systems trying to get at self knowledge. But people are afraid to know, so they undermine the truth with the elaborate web of justifications known to human beings. And then mock it. Use it to scare or impress. Use it to expand their personal hatreds and fears. All those things.
I take it very seriously and I don't tell a chart who it is. The chart tells me. I understand when it speaks. I simply love astrology.

So ask me anything. There's revelation in every moment.

16/7/07 2:28 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I'll take this opportunity to explain something about synastry, the astrology of relationship.

When I was counseling I was hopeful when I saw the light in their eyes when contacting this dimension. They didn't want to leave and would go on for hours and hours immersed in the magic of the moment. But soon they were back to the same attitudes and the problems remained as is until circumstance intervened. Always trying to find the fatal flaw in the other to justify the failure.

Most of it was about relationship problems and this understanding is very difficult for almost everyone. You cannot analyse the other and expect to solve the problems. The answer is in your own chart.

No matter how many times you look at "them" and all the aspects to your chart, you will never find it. The relationship was attracted for very specific reasons in your personal development. Until you can see the extension of your own chart, you won't have the relationship you desire. It's all about you.

The problems need to be there in order to get us past the roadblocks. The future of relationships really doesn't matter as much as what they are teaching you at present. We enter and leave them at the right time, and no one else can tell us when that is. We should make the most of them, painful or pleasurable. If we do, eventually good ones come.

16/7/07 3:28 PM  
Anonymous The_Ninth_Immortal said...

Dear JM, I'm humbled by your decision not to take money for your obvious skill and talent. It is particularly humbling given that I have toyed with the idea of taking up astrology as a possible career - after the relevant training, of course.

If I were to do this, it would be meant in service to others, but I had hitherto expected to be paid for such work.

Now, I wonder whether it would be right to accept money as a professional astrologer.

My other quandary is whether to keep pursuing filmmaking, as I also dream of offering service by giving people images of themselves that might heal them.

Service is a key to my chart, despite the relentless ambition of my Capricorn Moon. The Uranus/Moon contacts I have sometimes make me wonder if I also struggle with communication with the public, and unconsciously sabotage my own abilities in this area.

I wish I knew of a way to bring together filmmaking and astrology and put it all toward serving people.

I wish I knew what such desires had to do with my secret Leo-quest - the kingdom, the taste for glory - that I mentioned earlier. It seems that dreams of shining have little to do with service. And yet, they seem to coexist in me.

Forgive the somewhat convoluted reflections, JM. I applaud your integrity in terms of astrology. I thank you for your generosity.

No doubt the universe has mighty plans for you.

16/7/07 4:00 PM  
Blogger jm said...

sometimes make me wonder if I also struggle with communication with the public, and unconsciously sabotage my own abilities in this area.

OMG, ninth, you've nailed it exactly. I was going to go into this, your SN in the 10th in Gemini, and I will shortly. This is amazing. I still need to go through the Sun things mentioned earlier and the glory seeking. The Sun-Jupiter in Pisces is extremely powerful and I know you have great talent. But the communication dilemma is the most important. There is so much to cover and we will.

I almost became a filmmaker and I know the healing power of images, especially mixed with music. I was accepted at NYU film school and at the last minute I chose music instead and went to join Tim Hardin and his people in Woodstock. You might remember him, the writer of the song, If I Were a Carpenter.
I still might pursue film later.

Of course it's right to make money as an astrologer. This is just my personal path. I simply do my best without it, and money from other activities works better. And I don't need much money. Rather not have it, I think maybe. I prefer freedom. I like to work unobstructed.

It seems that dreams of shining have little to do with service. And yet, they seem to coexist in me.

They have everything to do with sevice. The spiritual needs the ego and light to get through on the earth plane. The human expression of the divine comes through the best with strong solar energy. This is how it's expressed. Ego does not interfere at all. It enhances. Gives something for people to focus on and then the highest service can be performed. It's useless for others when kept in the dark.

This is one of the great fallacies, that a strong and luminescent personality impedes service. Exactly the opposite. The whole idea of a Sun-jupiter is to use the solar power wisely. Amazing, that conjunction you own. The mixture of self with the compassion of Pisces. Makes for a great thespian or artist. Not the sacrifical kind of service, but the exaggeration of self in service to humanity. Exactly the same end result.

More on the communication in a bit.

16/7/07 4:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There is so much to do and I have to remember to take my time. My aim as an astrologer is to encourage people to know themselves and fulfill their potential. To be the best. That's all I really care about, but it serves my purposes. If I'm going to be out in society I want a good one filled with great people who inspire me. Any way at all I can contribute to this, I will.

16/7/07 4:35 PM  
Blogger jm said...

As far as the Leo quest goes, I mentioned earlier about the dreaded superiority. No matter how much it's denied, the feeling remains and must be used to its best advantage in the solar type. Don't fall for what they say, those who do not know. It's needed.

A great actress, with the adoring crowd at her feet as she shines from her elevated position is almost like a Wonder of the World. But she has to be completely unafraid to take the attention and love to make it all work right. Larger than life, she must be. Humility can still be there beyond this personal/audience dynamic. The better a job she does, the more humility will be present, as she transcends ordinary day to day life and gives it significance for the audience.

The quest for personal glory is necessary as a driving force and the advanced know this and do it fully. The dynamic of stardom is specific, and the cosmos knows it well. It's part of the deal.

The less talented and knowing get caught up in the pitfalls. We all seek glory in some way. Part of why we were born.

16/7/07 4:47 PM  
Anonymous The_Ninth_Immortal said...

Dear JM, thank you for that insight. I hadn't realised Sun-Jupiter could be so powerful, but your words spoke truth to me. Anything that touches off my excess of yearning for the divine, simultaneously fills me with great power and an overwhelming feeling of love for everything.

How curious that you, too, were planning to go to film school. I graduated from New York's Columbia U two years ago, and must confess struggled a great deal - mostly because of my seeming inability to find a niche - a "family" if you will - among teachers and fellow students that I thought would be kindred spirits.

However, the quality of the images you post should have clued me into your visual sensitivity. They are, so often, stunning.

Thank you again for your thoughts on my chart. You are helping me slowly to begin making sense of myself for the first time since my Saturn return three years ago, following which, Saturn's slow progress through my Leo 12th house blocked any semblance of creativity, not to mention, ambition or drive. With Saturn's coming ingress into Virgo in September, I hope to pick up the shattered pieces of my ego, and take up the courage - and task - to be artistic again.

Your words here have been a gift. Very illumining.

16/7/07 4:52 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The more we own our personal glory, the less we will need these ridiculous so-called leaders to try and act it out for us. Genuine pride in one's self is not such a bad thing.

16/7/07 4:55 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I have yet to find a person who hasn't been somewhat devastated by Saturn's passage through the 12th. It's an ending and death comes, if not in actuality, then metaphorically.

The problems are usually not alleviated in the 1st house, but often strength and vitality return and coping becomes a little easier. I've seen people cry for 2 years nonstop with Saturn in the 12th. Huddled against the wall, completely helpless.

So this is an important passage for you. A brand new cycle in real terms of pesonality. Ambitions in the world start anew. The more conscious, the better.

What a relief.

I hope to pick up the shattered pieces of my ego, and take up the courage - and task - to be artistic again.

It's closer than hope already.

16/7/07 5:02 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I won't ever forget my last Saturn transit of the 12th.

When Saturn crosses the ASC the purpose of the incarnation comes back to light in a rebirth. As Saturn crosses the 1st quadrant, the basics are redone and foundation is once again established when Saturn gets to the 4th. Then the work on the self continues, skills developed and so on, until saturn passes the DSC and heads up to the MC for actualization of ambition in a big way. You can follow it and work with it.

Saturn is the natural ruler of the public 10th house and rules timing, so career and calling in general can be developed through the Saturn passage.

Saturn is going into my 6th house next and I know when it crosses the 7th, I will be more actively involved in the world. We can be out there before, but we usually have limited influence until he climbs up to the top. A good slow ride.

The natal position of Saturn tells the story. Saturn in Cancer in the 11th means that the family of artists you once tried to form will be up for creation again.

my seeming inability to find a niche - a "family" if you will - among teachers and fellow students that I thought would be kindred spirits.

The way of Saturn. Another chance. You are the organizer of this. The central figure. The Sun-Jupiter put to use.

16/7/07 5:14 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

He's learning the hard way how to gain emotional distance from his family, and as painful as it is, the Uranus contact also is teaching him independence.

Well, jm, it worked! It so happened that I got a phone call from my aunt this afternoon when no one else was around. I was able to thank her for the sentiment and the support but I didn't feel comfortable with it just yet. And she said there is no pressure intended. Something caused me to say, "How about we do this. Next year it will be 10 years together (me and my Libra SO). That will be something to celebrate, so let's do it then." She thought that was a good idea, and that was that. :o)

jm wrote:
I have always known these things and the astrological language just gave me the way to articulate. I feel it first. From inside to out. The books and articles stop being necessary long ago. They intrude now.

Lynn has posted a new article about just this very thing.

16/7/07 6:03 PM  
Blogger chrispito said...

Jm! Thanks for your lovely thoughts. Reading what you said about Saturn transiting the ASC, through the 12th, I thought of my closest friend. She is one of the lightest people I know. Light, light,light like an angel who enamours everyone she meets...and she has 12th house Saturn, I think she incorporates her lessons effectively.

Thanks for the reminder of intuitive, energy based astrological...study. I guess I feel a bit worried sometimes that I'm being thorough enough, in terms of assilimilation of knowledge. Don't want to be too pompous with Pluto/NN in my Libra 9th!!! hee

you are a gem, and i'm so glad to be here. tis a lovely place...

16/7/07 8:09 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Excellent joe!

Don't want to be too pompous with Pluto/NN in my Libra 9th!!!
And Jupiter in the 5th! And Venus-Mars in Aries!

You can't be too pompous for me. Unless it's BS!

Moon in Cap is the stickler for getting every detail right, but Sagittarius is the intuitive. You'll get more and more like this as time goes on, especially with the NN in the 9th. The Cap Moon is good for keeping all the fire under control, with that great trine to your Sun-Merc in Taurus. Makes it usable. Not like mine.

Detailed delineation is enjoyable for many, and it works. Sesquiquadrates and all. Conjunctions from Cro-Magnon days. It's all personal preference. Some people aren't particularly interested in concentrated self actualization, anyway.

I have that big picture Sag thing going so that's that.

16/7/07 8:30 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's stunning chrispito. 26 sag ASC and Pluto now. You're alive!
What an amazing thing to get Pluto across the ASC. You and the USA.

16/7/07 8:34 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Meristem, this is fascinating. I can see why you repsonded like you did. You also have a Moon-Uranus opposition. No frippin' wonder, with the Moon in the 12th.

Your Moon is especially strong. It rules the 4th house of family and home. Aries can be trouble. And it stands alone in the transpersonal sector of the chart, so it's the way back to yourself considering all the relationship pressure. Most of your planets are in the interpersonal sector and the Uranus opposition is in Libra. The problems with people are in part leading you to this secluded place occupied by you alone. To find yourself with no doubts.

There's a lot to say, of course, but 12th house placements often are long inherited family patterns that surface in the one who has the 12th house planets so they can be recognized and rerouted. The ruler of the 4th makes it so even more. Family survival issues, possible violence in the line, experience with war, all kinds of possibilities. The main thing is that survival is paramount in your life, with a big break from an unseen past.
You probably could find interesting things in a geneology study.

With the 12th Moon in Aries and Saturn in the first separate from the rest of the chart, establishing separate identity is your life. It gives the feeling of urgency.

Moon in Aries is the female warrior fighting for all women, so it has many ramifications, especially with the NN in the 11th collective house.

I associate this with the Amazon and breast cancer in this country, which has an Aries 4th house and a warrior women foundation. I have to think more on why the breasts are being cut off, although now less so. It could be a sign that our women are finding more overt power. And Nancy Pelosi being an Aries and the most powerful women yet, seems to verify this. When Uranus comes into Aries, some interesting things will happen, and we Aries women will figure in.

The problems with our actual mothers are necessary to feel the rage and use it productively, especially with your Taurus rising.
Much like my situation with Aries-Cancer and the NN in Taurus in the 1st. I don't have one second to stop and think about feeling thwarted because I'm female. Quite the opposite. The world, however, has to adjust to girls who don't manipulate through coy femininity and illusory subservience. The boldness can be daunting. The sharp thrust of the being. Memories of ancient battles are held in an Aries Moon.

The consequences of the Aries warrior's actions can be great at times and this is one thing that has to be handled. Things like hurting others by happenstance when fighting for a larger cause. Mars pushes through every obstacle so it's best for people to steer clear. It's best to let them know that this is wise when you're coming through. And best not to hold it back when needed. Your Saturn in the 1st will automatically tame some of it.

Also in the last 4-6 months to an intense degree but really starting about a year ago, I have been undergoing a radical paradigm shift as regards my feelings toward and about relationships.

This explains it perfectly. Let me know more. Pluto will be coming soon to take care of things in that Aries-Libra opposition. Mother and the rest of them. You can't be obstructed. Too much to do. All related to your Capricorn MC and the world. Just like me. All of us with Cap MCs will be coming into power, so it's wise to prepare well.

This is a little start.

17/7/07 3:42 AM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Please refresh memory... what are the transpersonal sector and the interpersonal sector again?

17/7/07 3:59 AM  
Anonymous Joe said...

The world, however, has to adjust to girls who don't manipulate through coy femininity and illusory subservience.

There was a study published just the other day noting that there are women today whose voices resemble little girls' voices. Their intonation rises at the end of their sentences? They talk in squeaky voices? Even if they're in power suits and heels? The author concluded that the ones who do this are trying to appear less threatening. It's all about power. I can dig it up if anyone is interested, but the female power comments reminded me of it.

17/7/07 4:03 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I call them Betty Boop voices. Pop singers are very fond of this style.

Voices are almost too revealing. I've made a life-long study of them.

The chart can be divided into 3 sectors. Houses 1-4 is the personal, where we work on ourselves. 5-8 is the interpersonal and relationship development. 9-12 is the transpersonal and relating to the world.

17/7/07 4:50 AM  
Blogger Don said...

Hi JM - been silently following your blog for awhile , but this moon/uranus thread has finally motivated the desire to participate. the essence of what you are touching on here echos in Scorpio rising as well. with Acquarius on the IC - connecting is about the movement from the personal to something more universal and larger.....and just like your experience at the dentist, the simplest exchanges with anyone - and everyone - can become incredibly nourishing and even profound. this "raging universe" somehow also has the inclination to hold, feed, and nourish us in some surprising ways....
thanks,
Don

17/7/07 5:06 AM  
Anonymous mm said...

Dear jm, once again you just seem to be able to clarify things in a way no-one else can. my moon (leo) square uranus (scorpio) - i always thought it was a terrible thing, making me impossible for me to tolerate being in a relationship. But my aries south node is in the 7th. Maybe the moon-uranus energy is necessary for resolving this puzzle.
Also thank you for your comments about saturn through the 12th and into the first. I have only 6 weeks until saturn crosses my ascendant. I have been waiting it out knowing things must get better but in the meantime it has been hard. I had been hoping that once it was over I would be able to go back to 'normal'. Now I understand that this phase isn't just going to vanish but that it will always be with me. And that's ok because it has brought me something I think. A little compassion for people who haven't got the energy to bounce back. For those who are having a hard time and aren't making the best of things as everyone says we should. I know I haven't during the last 2 years. And finally, an understanding of the compassion and love people possess, that when they love you they will forgive you even if you feel you don't deserve it.
jm, i agree with others here that you're one of the best writers around. i wonder what saturn into your 7th will bring.

17/7/07 5:51 AM  
Blogger meristem said...

Hi! Blew a fuse and was offline for about a day...
And what bounty to return to!

Firstly a thank you, JM for offering your time and skills to me; was hard to ask frankly.
Secondly, whew!, I'm gonna have to take some time to digest and corral my thoughts which are like a thunderstorm just now.....

I wanted to acknowledge this:

The relationship was attracted for very specific reasons in your personal development. Until you can see the extension of your own chart, you won't have the relationship you desire. It's all about you.

The problems need to be there in order to get us past the roadblocks. The future of relationships really doesn't matter as much as what they are teaching you at present. We enter and leave them at the right time, and no one else can tell us when that is. We should make the most of them, painful or pleasurable. If we do, eventually good ones come.


AMEN!
I've always believed and even preach that relationships are the greatest teachers; they provide us with a crystal-clear mirror in which to see ourselves, if only we have the courage to look. And what courage it takes! Thanks to Aries moon, I feel blessed to be able to see those gifts, to be willing to look (not always immediately and sometimes the blindspots are hard to remove), am hungry for them even. So yes, I get that.

More when I can digest a bit....

Hi Chrispito! You make me smile

17/7/07 10:02 AM  
Anonymous chrispito said...

Hi Don...(Don from over at AP, I wonder? regardless, welcome)!

Yup, Pluto's basically sitting on top of me right now. You know when you're a kid and your big sibling sits on top of you and twists your arm until you say mercy?
Well, I've said mercy and I feel pretty good. Except for my bunged back, which happened juuuust as Pluto came and sat on me.

17/7/07 11:33 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Don, welcome to Raging U. I'm so glad you commented. I particularly like the Aquarius-Scorpio combo and I agree completely on the nourishing that can come from surprising places. I believe we are cared for by the universe if we really look at it.

I had a friend who had the Aqaurius-Cancer along with Moon-Pluto in the 8th which ties in all of these, and he nourished everyone all the time in a deep and healing way, but stayed detached. Almost as if he had no personal investment, just did it because it needed to be done.

That's a good point about the Aquarius IC.

17/7/07 1:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Mm, I have exactly the same thing and I know you're right! SN in the 7th with the Moon-Uranus. I've thought about this a lot, how it helps me with that node.

i always thought it was a terrible thing, making it impossible for me to tolerate being in a relationship.

That's the great thing!

You are wise.
I had been hoping that once it was over I would be able to go back to 'normal'. Now I understand that this phase isn't just going to vanish but that it will always be with me. And that's ok because it has brought me something

Saturn through my 12th was full of tragic loss and other hardships, and I also hoped the pass across the ASC would miraculously make it better, and of course, it didn't. But I knew I was building needed strength. I think by the time it got to the end of the 1st I started getting things worked out for myself in a better way than ever fundamentally, but still difficulties are always around. Looking back, it's way way way better than the 12th house time. So the improvement came gradually.
As bad as it was, though, I knew I was facing the inevitable and that I would be relieved in time, glad to have it done.

that when they love you they will forgive you even if you feel you don't deserve it.

This is so good, and It's connected to that great Moon in Leo square Uranus. The Scorpio can sometimes find it hard to forgive so the Uranus helps release you from that to enjoy the full love of the Leo Moon reflected back to you. Even if you don't marry them!

Thank you so much for the encouragement, mm. Frankly, I'm nervous about Saturn in my 7th! SN and all. If I stick to business, I might make a go of it. I'll plant the seed now!

17/7/07 1:44 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Meristem, this is just a start on the Aries Moon and how it ties in with the relationship karma, which is what your chart is all about. There's a lot to muck through to get to the freedom of the NN in the 11th, and the Aries is very important to this. Saturn in the 1st just as much. Your separation within relationship.

The good thing to do would be to turn the tables on the mother thing and look at how she is helping your evolution. It's hard not to get caught up in the pressure, but it can be done to an extent with awareness. And distance, sometimes, if possible. The Venus-Jupiter conjunction describes a lot of your closeness with your mother and how you can get swallowed along with the love and good parts. It's your ability to love, though, that is the root. If only you can love yourself like you do others. Even dare to think of yourself first!

relationships are the greatest teachers; they provide us with a crystal-clear mirror in which to see ourselves, if only we have the courage to look. And what courage it takes!

Hallelujah, sister!

It's a challenge for you with the Scorpio 7th house planets and the immediate tendency to merge and give all. Then comes the desire for autonomy. It probably has to be a seesaw in a way for now. You know you need these relationships, the lesson is maintaining your identity. Then the mirrors will reflect the woman you want to be.

Chrispito, I'm still amazed. Must be the Taurus!

17/7/07 2:01 PM  
Blogger jm said...

And mersistem, another possibility is the tendency to get involved in people's crises, since you're an expert at this, when your Taurus just wants to kick back and enjoy life. More cultivation of your own time to do this is in the cards.

17/7/07 2:16 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

And the accolades keep coming. :o)

17/7/07 2:56 PM  
Blogger meristem said...

To find yourself with no doubts.

I feel like this is my mission. My parents gave me not many tools of inner strength and confidence and so I feel that my life thus far has been like one of those adventure video games where I'm on a quest and along the way I accumulate tools and talismans to increase my strength and protection for the journey. SURVIVAL stuff. But emotional survival primarily. I'm also learning, like Dorothy, that those things I seek are already gifted me and they blossom from within once I experience what I need to experience for their activation....
I suppose that's just what this Life thing is all about really.

But I want to share with others what I learn. Many people reflect that I am so self-aware (neurosis-narcissism borderline disorder...hee!); there's an intensity to this need for self-discovery in me, a compulsion maybe.
Like there's a bigger reason for it.

Which brings me to this (and gives me relief that I'm not possessed of a crazy idea):

There's a lot to say, of course, but 12th house placements often are long inherited family patterns that surface in the one who has the 12th house planets so they can be recognized and rerouted. The ruler of the 4th makes it so even more. Family survival issues, possible violence in the line, experience with war, all kinds of possibilities.

There is big alcoholism in my wider family and much ensuing emotional damage. I feel like the funnel for that destructive force, like it stops with me. I want to stop the flow of that unhealthy legacy. Not in the simplistic tea-totalling sense, but FUNDAMENTALLY, like I am personally transmuting all of that sadness, desperation, loneliness, hiding, and lack of love through my being in this lifetime. Stuff which has its roots who knows where, existing for how many generations. It does feel old and heavy...
WOW.
I've never expressed that before.

OK. Break time

17/7/07 3:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

meristem,

just wanted to say yes, i hear you. some of us are born alchemists. {{{meristem}}} genes fascinate me. i feel them. they are woven into my writing. ~~kj

17/7/07 3:39 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe, you are so sweet. You're behind this, you know..:-)

OMG, meristem. Exactly my scenario with my 12th houser. The alcoholism brought to the surface. The defeatism. Many severe emotional complexes. The aunt who went insane after her hysterectomy, for example. The grandmother who used obscene language on her deathbed in the strict Southern Baptist family. Alcoholism is very common with the 12th.
He was recognized as a special child and the family later regretted that they didn't care for him more.

But I want to share with others what I learn. Many people reflect that I am so self-aware (neurosis-narcissism borderline disorder...hee!); there's an intensity to this need for self-discovery in me, a compulsion maybe.
Like there's a bigger reason for it.


You got it. Moon in Aries in the 12th. This is necessary for survival, this narcissism. you probably don't do it enough!

The family past...self sacrifice vs. selfish indulgence in all the craziness. Despair in alcoholism. Feelings of weakness and helplessness. All these things that you with the Moon in Aries are meant to overcome so the family line can survive. All the energy you can put into yourself will help everyone in the long run. The criticisms of selfishness are their own dilemmas projected. They don't have your Moon. This is how powerful an Aries Moon is for very good reason. My Aries rising as well. I know why in my case.

My mother had one and she couldn't be bothered with me. Too urgent, the survival need. The circumstances of her past were severe and I probably knew that even as a child. But then I got the Aries rising so I could survive on my own. I raised myself. We had an understanding that revealed itself completely after her death.

The Saturn in your 1st is especially concerned with self discovery. I don't see that you have any other choice. The more you do it fully without fear, the more others will accept it totally.

Families can perish from these weaknesses, and if someone is born to survive and carry on the line, then karmically it's meant to continue.

Part of the critical voice from others is the fuel to get you to recognize yourself with no inhibition. To stick up for yourself, something many in the family probably couldn't do. Maybe turned it into useless rage.

17/7/07 4:01 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I want to stop the flow of that unhealthy legacy. Not in the simplistic tea-totalling sense, but FUNDAMENTALLY, like I am personally transmuting all of that sadness, desperation, loneliness, hiding, and lack of love through my being in this lifetime.

I love the 12th house for this and you are advanced. Most people never get the story with the 12th house, but when I see planets there, I get strong strong sensations of great possibility and a larger than life incarnation.

George Bush, for example is destroying his family line's horrible behavior as we watch, with his Sun-Saturn in Cancer in the 12th. He hates them more than we do. They are not really his family. He is our ally. Impeachment is totally out of the question. A great thing is happening and the family's old legacy will be completely destroyed by the time he finishes, with his Pluto on the ASC.

17/7/07 4:09 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Me behind this? :o) No, not I. I'm just glad you're getting some recognition.

Meristem, this is fascinating and what an eloquent manner you have in expressing things that are so deep.

Re: the 12th house thread. My dad has Mercury in the 12th and as you pointed out, it inhibits his ability to communicate effectively. Maybe that's why I have the Gem ASC, as well as the opposite SN/NN.

17/7/07 4:15 PM  
Blogger jm said...

OMG, joe. You are so accurate. What a grasp of astrology you have.

Exactly. Gemini rising and that Saturn (symbol of the father) in Gem in the 1st.

What this means is that your survival (1st house) depends on articulating. Speaking up clearly. The Merc in the 12th of your father was a threat to survival, so you got the baton. What a joy to know astrology now and you can work on it consciously.

This is great. I'm stunned by your intelligence.

17/7/07 4:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe, the recognition has been a looooooooooonnng time coming and it still scares me. I want to make sure I'm good enough. And it has to be genuine. This is the nature of Saturn. He will make you capable and the result of this 2nd Saturn return will be manifesting for years to come.

I told you that I received public recognition on my 1st return but I knew myself how far I had to go. The wait is worth it, so following the transits of Saturn is a wise move. Letting him guide you. He's sometimes depicted as the carrier of the lantern to light the way in the dark.

Pluto in Capricorn is all about Saturn so this is why I say we will all have a fantastic opportunity for achievement in the coming years. Look at the Cap sector of your charts.

17/7/07 4:33 PM  
Blogger meristem said...

You can't be obstructed. Too much to do. All related to your Capricorn MC and the world. Just like me. All of us with Cap MCs will be coming into power, so it's wise to prepare well.
Yes!Yes!
Please remind me of the significance of the MC? It hasn't sunk in yet. And I don't want to miss out on the goodies!

The good thing to do would be to turn the tables on the mother thing and look at how she is helping your evolution.
I agree. I have to vent the anger and frustration to clear the pipes. I know once I have let myself feel and own that as regards my mom then I can move to the next level with our relationship.
I want to give her love for doing the best she could considering her own limited resources personally and culturally...
Have been trying to foster a friendship with her, woman-to-woman these past few years, but she can be locked up tight like a safe! Also, firmly entrenched in traditional family roles. I just wanna be her friend and know her as a woman in the world; I already know her as Mom...different person.

17/7/07 4:46 PM  
Blogger meristem said...

Meristem, this is fascinating and what an eloquent manner you have in expressing things that are so deep.
Joe, I bow to you in humble gratitude, you being a Master of Eloquence.....


JM, this struck me to the bone:
Part of the critical voice from others is the fuel to get you to recognize yourself with no inhibition. To stick up for yourself, something many in the family probably couldn't do. Maybe turned it into useless rage.

Two of my father's four siblings committed suicide, about 13 years apart. Still he doesn't recognize what is so painfully obvious.
Dad's unexpressed rage at his parents came out at his two children.
I still have trouble sticking up for myself.
But I think the current Mars transit and the previous one through Aries are giving me much umph in that arena? Am I sensing that correctly?

I don't wanna hog the forum here. I could write a book in response to what you have shared JM (that's what my journals are for :) )
But I can't tell you how much all of this information, channeled to me through you truly means to me.
One of the greatest and most precious gifts I can receive is validation. And here it is.
Reminds me that i am indeed on the right path and seeing clearly.
I need that reassurance from time to time. Especially when the terrain begins to look menacing or surreal.... But I wouldn't trade any of it!
I can't read the astrological map so well, so thanks for your sacred skills.

17/7/07 4:59 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Have been trying to foster a friendship with her, woman-to-woman these past few years, but she can be locked up tight like a safe!

That's how it is with my father, Meristem. Locked up tight. I can relate.

jm, really, any intelligence on my part with respect to astrology only shows what great teachers are here and elsewhere in our little galaxy of astro-blogs. :o)

17/7/07 5:00 PM  
Blogger meristem said...

Oh, and Sige, thanks as always for your flower petals. I feel a kindredness. There is a great story behind how I got the nickname meristem which I'm happy to share if there's interest...

17/7/07 5:01 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The MC (midheaven) is the highest point in the wheel when the Sun is directly above shining at it's highest point during the day. So this is the place where we are revealed in the light to the world, and where we want to be seen at our best. Recognition for achievements, honors, respect from peers and authority figures. Our worldly achievement. Our calling, the concrete purpose of the incarnation.

Three fourths of the wheel is preparation for this rise, then after we make it, we go on to more singularly spiritual concerns and graduallly leave the public eye, theoretically.

So the MC, the ruler, planets in the 10th, and Saturn in the chart tell us what we're aiming for.

A Capricorn MC has a slow rise and wants to be seen as reserved, capable, dignified, classy, self controlled, and somewhat aloof. Very very skilled.
The ruler, Saturn, in the 1st house means that you want recognition for what is uniquely your own presentation of self. You want to be admired for your self containment, strength, and physical potency and presence. This is why Aikido appeals to you so much.

The purpose overall here is to establish hard rock solid identity. Permanent sense of self that can't be altered at the whim of others. Very tough. this toughness, endurance is built gradually over the years by the hard knocks.

Your relationship with your mother will be dealt with completely starting January next year when Pluto squares your Moon in Aries. This will be one of the most decisive times of your life so you can prepare now. Moon in Aries women have a fight for independence from their mothers. I think we all seek independence from them but the placement tells how we achieve it.

This transit will last for a couple of years and when it's over, a lot will be resolved, especially since you are so advanced.

I just wanna be her friend and know her as a woman in the world; I already know her as Mom...different person.

I think this will happen since independent Uranus is also in the square.

Pluto to the Moon is the end of the mother's control in the psyche. You were destined to achieve this with a Moon-Uranus opposition. So whatever hardships have to be encountered will be worth it.

I just had this transit. As far as I know, she's off doing her own thing and me, mine.(She died 9 years ago). I love her more than I used to. She's more of an ally now.

17/7/07 5:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Yes. Suicide. Very common as well with the 12th. Especially with Aries.

I still have trouble sticking up for myself.
But I think the current Mars transit and the previous one through Aries are giving me much umph in that arena? Am I sensing that correctly?


Yes. And the culmination will be the Pluto coming up. I also have to deal with it head on as it comes to my Mars, so this sharing is just as much for me.

Everytime I see Aries placements I perk up, especially the Moon, since it coincides with my own path and I have much to learn. The inner strength of a Moon in Aries is incomparable. They protect like no others.

There's no need to feel inhibited about getting into this now. These are magic veins that open up and then they close. So now is the time.

17/7/07 5:18 PM  
Blogger jm said...

And yes! the story on your name please. When you want to tell it.

17/7/07 5:19 PM  
Blogger jm said...

One of the greatest and most precious gifts I can receive is validation. And here it is.
Reminds me that i am indeed on the right path and seeing clearly.


The real purpose of astrology.

17/7/07 5:21 PM  
Blogger meristem said...

Oh, this last bit brings tears to my eyes....
I'm glad to know about what's coming so I can be thoughtful down the path leading to it. I look forward to that shift...

You want to be admired for your self containment, strength, and physical potency and presence. This is why Aikido appeals to you so much.
You nailed me here!....I find that this intimidates people.
I want those qualities but I also deeply want connection with people, not competition. But the Aikido me puts people off. I feel like lots of things in me contradict one another (the see-saw formation of aspects in my chart?).

Also is there something in my chart that indicates an almost bionic empathetic sense? This freaks people out too; had to learn to rein it in and not share what I see and feel of others' interiors unless invited. Blessing and curse, that one!

Thank you, a million thanks JM

17/7/07 5:26 PM  
Blogger chrispito said...

You guys! My head feels like it's going to blow off you're giving me somuch to think about! LOL! I love it...

Joe, regarding your comment on the female squeaky voice syndrome (I hope it's okay to quote Jane Fonda here):

"Harvard professor Carol Gilligan, in her groundbreaking book from the 1970s, In a Different Voice, wrote about the problems that ensue from rendering oneself selfless in order to have relationships. Professor Gilligan said, "Women's choices not to speak, or rather to disassociate themselves from what they themselves are saying, can be deliberate or unwitting, consciously chosen or enacted through the body by narrowing the passages that connect the voice with the breath and sound, by keeping the voice high in the head, so that it does not carry the depths of human feeling."

selfless/helpless are not the same thing...

I hope this is an appropriate place for this, if not my apologies, Jm. Gilligan also writes about how it is common for some women to actually lose their voice when they are under duress. I can only say that I Iost my voice during one of the more stressful times in my life, and it was bizarro.

17/7/07 5:37 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I find that this intimidates people.
I want those qualities but I also deeply want connection with people, not competition.


Aries is the most competetive energy in the universe. No way around it. They beat everybody at their own games. The winners. The more you own this and do it, the more the relationships will work. They will be glad you won, if you do it right. It's trying too hard for approval that ruins everything. I mean everything.
Aries are protectors so people deep down want them to win and do their best. Others simply need to do better.

Aries? Never be afraid of being competetive. You could sooner cut out your right eye.

As I've said about the Aries persona... this from 16 Tons says it:

When you see me comin better step aside
A lotta men didn't and a lotta men died


Also is there something in my chart that indicates an almost bionic empathetic sense?

NN in Pisces. Moon in the 12th. Venus-Jupiter in Scorpio, seeing into the depths.

17/7/07 5:39 PM  
Blogger chrispito said...

What I meant to post first:

Thanks for breaking your silent spell, meristem! Sharing yourself in this way is brave, and I thank you for it.

Much love to all of you! :)

17/7/07 5:40 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The competetiveness is the survival need. It must be.

17/7/07 5:40 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Women's choices not to speak, or rather to disassociate themselves from what they themselves are saying, can be deliberate or unwitting, consciously chosen or enacted through the body by narrowing the passages that connect the voice with the breath and sound, by keeping the voice high in the head, so that it does not carry the depths of human feeling."

OMG! OMG! OMG in heaven!

Thank you chrispito!!!!!!!

17/7/07 5:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"connection with people, not competition" are goals i share as well, meristem. and please tell the story behind your name!

jm, looked at my chart and i have Aries in the 12th. is she any relation to my sun Aries? or just a distant cousin?

~~kj

17/7/07 5:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

And again...

OMG!!!!!!!!!

17/7/07 5:42 PM  
Blogger chrispito said...

Oh, and I am interested in where the nickname came from...

17/7/07 5:46 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Kj!!!

A relation. Mars in the 12th which cuts back on your aggression, maybe makes you regret some things you do. Makes you want to retreat after pushing out. Needing down time to heal wounds and recover. Enemies you didn't know were enemies, very discouraging. Things like this.

17/7/07 5:49 PM  
Blogger kj said...

I've read some Gilligan. There was a time in my mid-thirties when my mantra was: Do not tell me who I am, what I think or how I feel.

17/7/07 5:50 PM  
Blogger kj said...

jm, since leaving the political blogs, Aries has been off wandering the fields of I don't know where. I told her she didn't again have to do the work I'd called on her to do these past few decades, most especially these last few years. Over, done, out, gone. She seems happiest on her own. The collective drove her to distraction.

17/7/07 5:54 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This voice thing is going to get some discussion. This reveals some truth. Women are supposed to be the feeling ones?

by keeping the voice high in the head, so that it does not carry the depths of human feeling.

I am absolutely exasperated with female singers and this breathless whimpering. They do not provide the emotional release society needs.

This is fabulous chrispito. To see it in print. I should print it and put it in a guilded frame.

Thank you again.

17/7/07 5:54 PM  
Blogger jm said...

You'll be back in, kj, renewed and in a better position. Don't kick yourself for this respite. You have an 11th house Sun and you'll be back out starting next year when pluto gets there. Meantime, take the time off while you can. I don't want to hear about! Just do it and enjoy the break.

17/7/07 5:57 PM  
Blogger kj said...

When I yell, it's very loud. :-)
But I confess, I have a Betty Boop magnet on the fridge. I thought she was da boss when I was a kid. Her and Judy Garland. !?!

17/7/07 5:59 PM  
Blogger kj said...

jm, when does Pluto get here next year?

17/7/07 5:59 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Next March.

17/7/07 6:02 PM  
Blogger kj said...

Okay! March is traditionally a good month to begin new things. I love the thought of a break until then, which will provide plenty of time to work with the Prof on the story. Very good. Thanks. :-)

17/7/07 6:05 PM  
Blogger kj said...

I feel kindred as well, Meristem. :-) Good night, all!

17/7/07 6:27 PM  
Anonymous meristem said...

It's trying too hard for approval that ruins everything.

Wow, and I chose parents who would set me up to pathologically -almost- seek approval. So that I could learn to overcome it. Bust up them shackles. Hmph. Now my will wants to roar!
At least I'm learning my lessons and eating my peas and brussels sprouts like a good child....

Thanks for the interest in the nickname y'all.
It is tied to a deep place in my heart where a dear friend resides and always will:

meristem, given to me by a dear dear friend during a very fecund time in my life.
He and I discussed many rich and juicy things flying through the stratosphere with our minds and words. I miss that. At the time (summer 2000) I was reading a book called 'Centering' by m.c. richards (poet, potter). One afternoon during this time I was driving somewhere and I had a vision of a carrot. In this vision I fixated on the place where the above-ground leafy greens met the orange subterranean part of the carrot. If you buy your carrots bagged and de-greened, this meeting place or threshold often looks blackish. I had this overwhelming desire to eat that very part. I felt a great sense of urgency and immediacy about it. It was hyper-meaningful at that moment.
I discussed this experience with my friend. We talked about the significance of that threshold place, especially at that time in my life. The meristem cells of an organism were mentioned somewhere in 'Centering'. Stem cells (which we now hear about all the time), esp. meristem cells, are not specialized, they can go anywhere and become anything, any part of the organism. Thus because of what he sees in me, and because of where I was in my life at the time, Friend christened me meristem. I embraced the name like a talisman and still do.
Very powerful for me.

I feel very glad that you all asked me to share. An intimate sense of bonding emanates from me now....

17/7/07 6:49 PM  
Blogger Mara said...

Thank you, Chrispito!

Thank you, JM!

Thanks for letting me take the stage a while, all......

And beautiful dreams to everyone!

17/7/07 6:56 PM  
Anonymous meristem said...

oops! Mara was me

17/7/07 6:57 PM  
Anonymous chrispito said...

Hee! I actually came across this in an old Oprah magazine my Mum had...Jane Fonda had endorsed the book in her interview with O.W. I found it fascinating as I always thought people who 'lost their voice' were somehow making it up.

It was a real shock to lose my own in the height of an emotional crisis. I wasn't even sick. A close friend also lost her voice towards the end of her teacher's practicum, a horrible prospect of re-doing her education BA ensued...we searched desperately for the old copy of Oprah to find the title of the book LOL...in the end it was enough for my friend to know a feminist scientist/academic had made a correlation between the female voice and psychological pressure.

Another favorite of mine is Annie Lennox, who has spoken at length of how her voice changed and deepened after splitting with Dave Stewart and the Eurythymics band and went solo...you can actually compare her voice from the early years until now...and now she and Stewart have reunited and to hear her singing the old tunes IN A BRAND NEW DEEP VOICE... Welll it's freakin' awesome! Here's to keeping your voice deep while under pressure! LOL!

17/7/07 9:11 PM  
Anonymous chrispito said...

The same stuff, from Jane Fonda. I find it really interesting, and if you do, too, here's some more of it:


Later she says, "The justification of these psychological processes in the name of love or relationships is equivalent to the justification of violence and violation in the name of morality." Gilligan wrote that the problem of voicelessness becomes "central in women's development during the adolescent years when thought becomes reflective and the problem of interpretation thus enters the stream of development itself."

And she goes on, "As girls become the carrier of unvoiced desires and unrealized possibilities, they are inevitably placed at considerable risk, even in danger." When I first read In a Different Voice, the part about keeping the voice high in the head so that it doesn't carry the depth of human feelings took my breath away. I've been there. I remembered my early years as a movie star and I looked at those early films. My voice was all high and thin, and not expressing any of what I was.

I have since gone back and tracked my growth as a woman by looking at my films chronologically and noting when my voice began to drop. It began with Klute--which was the first time I identified myself as a feminist. It was also when I won my first Oscar. My acting got better as I came to connect with myself, with my own Klute. I know what Professor Gilligan writes about, I know it in my skin, in my gut, as well as in my voice. But it has taken me into my sixties to own that voice and take what Gilligan calls "the road back from selflessness, the road back from selflessness." I'm not supposed to do that. And I went to the best schools, I went to high school at Emma Willard School, the all-girl school where Gilligan did her research on the value of single-sex education for girls. God knows what would have happened if I had gone to a co-ed school. I would never have found my voice."

It's from here: http://www.edletter.org/past/issues/2000-ja/forum.shtml

Sorry, this stuff just knocks my socks off! Saturn in Leo!

17/7/07 9:23 PM  
Blogger jm said...

pathologically -almost- seek approval

That's me! Shall we defeat it?

Bust up them shackles. Hmph. Now my will wants to roar!

meristem cells, are not specialized, they can go anywhere and become anything, any part of the organism. Thus because of what he sees in me, and because of where I was in my life at the time, Friend christened me meristem.

What a beautiful, story. I'm so glad you told us. And so glad you brought all this learning here today. I feel better than I have in quite awhile. It's been good for everyone.

Thank you, mersistem, the carrot herself.

17/7/07 9:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Chrispito you can't imagine how much I love this. I've been talking about it for ages and no one has listened.

It's even more than feeling, this strangulation of the voice. It's the throat and survival.

And sexuality. The truth is, this society is puritanical and no amount of bulging cannonball breasts, hip & thigh in miniskirts, stiletto heels, and long lashed kitten eyes is going to change this. It comes out in the voices.

This is the amazing disconnect. The fake sexuality onstage and then these sexless voices. It's pitiful. I wish they'd just put their clothes back on, stop knifing their bodies, and just learn to go to the source of sexuality.

The high heels add to the tension in the core of the body and the closing of the throat. I hate to see our girls have to grow up and follow these models.

A real voice is scary when it emerges from the core of the body. The real feelings of life and the earth, the grunts, the moans, the pain, the ecstasy and the bass undercurrent of the bowels and sexuality.

Women say they want power but they'll have to search themselves first.

17/7/07 9:54 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is very very interesting because I remember Klute and it was the first time I took notice of Jane Fonda. Thanks for this info. Very interesting, indeed.

17/7/07 9:59 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Really chrispito. this is fabulous.

Another thing that strains the voice and thins it is too much forced volume. So relaxation with the body and self are primary to a great voice that speaks truthfully and gets the girl what she wants.

A great voice coming out of a woman is an unmistakable pleasure for everyone.

17/7/07 10:05 PM  
Anonymous chrispito said...

Meristem! I love it, and thanks for letting us in.

Jm, I agree. The voice, the throat, sexuality, femininity, revolutionizing yourself, your creativity...

Must be a Taurus thing, to be so connected to ideas of the throat and projection, and you with your Taurus NN!

I really must bust a move and go to sleep. Thanks for the food for thought it really is AWESOME!

nighty night night

17/7/07 11:01 PM  
Blogger NEOBuckeye said...

And sexuality. The truth is, this society is puritanical and no amount of bulging cannonball breasts, hip & thigh in miniskirts, stiletto heels, and long lashed kitten eyes is going to change this. It comes out in the voices.

This is the amazing disconnect. The fake sexuality onstage and then these sexless voices. It's pitiful. I wish they'd just put their clothes back on, stop knifing their bodies, and just learn to go to the source of sexuality.

The high heels add to the tension in the core of the body and the closing of the throat. I hate to see our girls have to grow up and follow these models.

A real voice is scary when it emerges from the core of the body. The real feelings of life and the earth, the grunts, the moans, the pain, the ecstasy and the bass undercurrent of the bowels and sexuality.

Women say they want power but they'll have to search themselves first.


I'll say Amen to that, jm! Superficiality seems to be at an all time high, in both sexes really. But re-imaging onesself into a carbon copy of some Hollywood star or starlet, who themselves are all made up for the camera, definitely isn't the answer.

I do sense that a shift towards authenticity is in the works with all of the Saturn/Capricorn Pluto energy coming up over the horizon. Perhaps we will see the hollywood image fakeness fade and more women and men get in touch with the core of their true selves?

18/7/07 1:46 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Neo!!!! What a joy!! OMG!!!

I agree completely. Yes, yes, yes. Authenticity in the wings. It has to come eventually as things keep cycling.

In ways, I'm fine with our underlying prudishness. I hope we can just be our demure ourselves with dignity in the Capricorn years. If not all the way to honesty, at least to a style change that will have more grace. I see signs of it already.

I know I'm certainly not going to bat my eyelashes to survive. They're too thin at my age anyway and my teeth are like old piano keys. My voice is about all that's left! So there!

18/7/07 2:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've read no further than this: At the time (summer 2000) I was reading a book called 'Centering' by m.c. richards (poet, potter). and just have to say, meristem, we are kin! I have that book!!! It is fascinating!!!

Also, the idea of eating the threshold, at least, that's how I read what you did. LOVE THAT IDEA. I have a saying for myself: Live the liminal, live the threshold. At first, I thought it would be a mantra to get me through a certain time, but it has turned out to be a realized intention for my life, which is always changing, as we continue to move to new places, meet new people, etc. etc.

wow. not even awake yet. "Centering." I've never met anyone else who has read that book.

Nice salon ya got here, JM. @;-) ~~kj

18/7/07 4:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

meristem, I think in concrete ideas, (which comes from looking at the world as a poet). I LOVE the idea of you eating that part of the carrot. A ritual, a ceremony, bravo! The infinite possibilities of the meristem, the meristem is always in the moment of becoming. Simply gorgeous thought.

chrispito, have you read Alice Miller's "The Drama of the Gifted Child"? There is another one, about women, that I've forgotten, wait, let me go look and see if it's still on the bookshelf. No, not there. I forget what it was, anyway. There's Susan Griffin's "Woman and Nature" and many others, but not the one I was looking for.

I love books. :-)

Oh dear, must go to work now. It's my turn in the matrix to we can get our share of corn. sigh. @;-)

Isn't this fun? ~~kj

18/7/07 4:45 AM  
Blogger Don said...

JM, thanks for the welcome and happy birthday as well ! there is something special about what you're up to here - people can stop in - kind of just feel your delight in what you're doing and about - share, maybe reveal themselves a bit if they choose, catch a glimpse of a new horizon or perspective, and come away enlivened.

Chrispito - not sure what AP is ? but i do know about moon /pluto. it is a permanent fixture in my reality - an exact to the minute Taurus moon/leo Pluto square in the natal - so i know the feeling of being "sat upon".
JM mentioned about moon pluto transits being the end ( death) of the mothers control in the psyche -she is deadly accurate, and that observation also seems applicable to the natal aspects. responding to this moon/uranus thread was a "flash" about the form and energy flowing into the space left by that death....

again, my appreciation to JM for hosting this party .....the warmth , the inviting aesthetics, the imagination, the insightful discussions - a pleasure !

18/7/07 6:20 AM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Wow wow wow

Oh My too much here, so i shall just enjoy.

loved it all!

Cantering great book have a copy in tatters from early 70's

the voice thing- i remember studies from several decades ago noting the correlation between the uplift at the end of a sentence and the self diminishing of a woman. Ending a sentence with a questioning sound to make it ok to impart knowledge without offense.

Therapies have been developed to correct this as it (the strain) has caused some pathology. Very simple, lower chin and and go mmhmmm swallow and continue to speak in a lower tone. Interestingly this dysfunction began tuning up in men as they entered the "women's" world of secretaries etc.
sigh.

Meristem i love your story.
Hello and welcome to the newcomers.

What a thread!!!

Happy birthday jm deerhearted friend. i am glad you are in my life.

18/7/07 7:20 AM  
Anonymous chrispito said...

Good morningTseka! Your presence is such a treat!
Happy Birthday to you, Jm, you made me laugh heartily with the image of your teeth-keys...

Kj, I have not read that book but it is definately one I'd like to pick up, esp. as my godson is going through his own drama as a gifted child, I'm sure his Mum would be interested too.

And Meristem, I'd LOVE to find that book Centering! Hmmm now that I amm off work for a few days I can go hunting for pleasures of the mind! Yay!

Don, there was a very intelligent and interesting Don over at AquariusPapers who had an emphasis of Scorpio who taught me a lot. Regardless, welcome again...this place is a fabulous place to learn and a joy to contribute to.

18/7/07 7:48 AM  
Blogger meristem said...

Wow.
All of you.

Yes, JM let's defeat this ridiculous need for approval.

Chrispito, thank you so much for these contributions about subsuming the voice.
Mars in Taurus--time to let the voice out. Loud!

And it's interesting to tieit to breast cancer. Heart and nurturing.
The impetus and materials needed to create sound in the throat begin below the shoulders (diaphragm, solar plexus, lungs, desire) and come up to cooperate with input from the head (ideas, thoughts, nasal and sinus cavities). The heart and head blend vocal expression in the throat.
I've begun to see the throat as the threshold (there's that word again) between the heart and the head....

When we 'stuff our feelings' this closes down the mechanisms of the lower body and so trying to produce voice from the head and throat alone is false and weak necessarily.

Breast cancer: stuffing our authentic selves: true desires, opinions, perspectives, etc.
Not nurturing our own femaleness?

Dang, my client's here, gotta g
Mmmm.... I love this here community!

18/7/07 9:51 AM  
Blogger jm said...

A Moon in Taurus!!
And an astrologer!

What a lovely, lovely comment, Don. Am I ever glad you arrived. You express yourself so beautifully. Must be that moon square, which is fascinating, to the minute. Something there. I like the way you interpret astrology.

responding to this moon/uranus thread was a "flash" about the form and energy flowing into the space left by that death....

I'm interested in this.

Once again, a hearty welcome to Raging U.

18/7/07 12:49 PM  
Blogger jm said...

i remember studies from several decades ago noting the correlation between the uplift at the end of a sentence and the self diminishing of a woman.

Yes men. George Bush does it with almost every sentence. I used to think every time he gave a speech, "what are you asking me for?"
The terrorists?????

18/7/07 1:04 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Yeah, this book on centering.

It IS interesting that the voice thing came out with Mars in Taurus, spoken by a Taurus, although joe started the whole thing. Then came Don, with the Moon in Taurus square Pluto in Leo.
Hello??? Universe?????

No, wait, change that.

Hello!! Universe!!!!!! I want to talk to you!

I've begun to see the throat as the threshold (there's that word again) between the heart and the head....

Very very interesting meristem.

When we 'stuff our feelings' this closes down the mechanisms of the lower body and so trying to produce voice from the head and throat alone is false and weak necessarily.

Breast cancer: stuffing our authentic selves: true desires, opinions, perspectives, etc.
Not nurturing our own femaleness?


Very interesting. We must pursue this.
The throat is how we survive, all of our intake, so this says something about maintaining weakness and subservience in order to do this. Begging.

The breasts feed the young, too, and is positioned over the heart. Lots going on with this breakdown.

18/7/07 1:05 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Meristem, I've though about this a lot. The violence to the breast.

When it's not cancer, it's plastic surgery. It's stunning the frequency of abuse. This is why I think Aries women are important, to help teach them to value being women. By example.

Then again, men have epidemic prostate cancer, so it goes beyond gender. Maybe something to do with negative modeling of gender. I wish I knew the source. Sometimes I think a decrease in procreation is the only solution, and we can learn to view one another in a new light. Pioneering women have to lead and teach alternative paths since the childless woman is still a pariah. The epidemic of pregnancies in the movie stars is interesting. Back to the hypocrisy and all the talk about overpopulation and the earth's resources. Can you imagine how much one birth creates exponentially in consuming creatures?

Anyway, when Uranus goes into Aries all of our Aries points will be triggered and it could be a time for change. Time for us to speak up. Connected to this voice thing.

18/7/07 1:38 PM  
Anonymous meristem said...

Quick one:

JM with your mention of prostate cancer it makes me step back and look at the bigger issue:
we are having problems manifesting wholeness: woman's true power -balanced- and men's true power -balanced- is not fostered in our culture. These cancers, etc. are symptoms of this, dont you think?
We're all lopsided and out of perspective, almost cartoonishly so! But there's a hunger for wholeness and people in communities like this one are stoking the embers...
I feel a new awareness arising. We have to send love to these issues...

Work beckons again....

18/7/07 2:36 PM  
Blogger jm said...

We're all lopsided and out of perspective, almost cartoonishly so!

Yes. Oh I love this.
I've seen this absurdity all my life, one of the reasons I like Fellini films. He's captured it.

The cartoonishness is apparent in the female icons, who are anorexic with ribs sticking out and yet, huge breasts stuck on these lifeless bodies. How cartoonish can you get? So very absurd. My artist's eye rebels. If it were making an interesting statement I could get with it, but to me it's not particularly enriching.

we are having problems manifesting wholeness:

It has to be separated first, and maybe some of us are ready to integrate. Some always are but now we've connected in cyberspace. I agree. We should work together on the issues. Now is a golden opportunity.

I've been talking about this a lot, this integration, and it's probably wise to continue. Let it get absorbed by osmosis.
I'm shy about repetition and I get bored, but I have to remember that learning happens this way. So I will swallow my discontent, especially as Saturn goes into Virgo, and do what needs to be done.

I'm surprised and delighted with the people gathering here and this is fueling my drive into society. I think there are changes and it's time for the more advanced to exercise influence. The path seems to be opening. I know it is. Very exciting.

18/7/07 2:55 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I have a curious combination of drive-will and laissez faire, so I often don't make moves until I feel the time is right. I don't cotton to being useless.
I think there is a larger wheel that I am a spoke in, speaking of spoke.
But when the call comes, I move, and now is the time.

It takes something good going on to motivate me. Sometimes the advanced lie fallow, I think, and sometimes they can move in and carve a path for the others to follow.
This is where Aries comes in, and soon Uranus will be there, speaking of repeats. It's only 7 years in Aries so consolidation now and conscious action will help a great deal.

Aries' job is to lead through uncharted territory. When the people are lost they leap to follow the compass. So Aries should be the best they can be. This is probably the reason for the cluelessness now and the breakdown in political leadership.

Here we have several early Aries people, who will also be influenced by Pluto.

I have 0 Mars being hit soon.
You have 1 degree Aries Moon.
Kj has 1 degree Aries Sun.
Tseka has 4 degrees Aries Jupiter.
Chrispito has 7 degrees mars in Aries.
Neobuckeye has 5 degrees Aries-Libra nodes.

Aries is a specific kind of leadership, so the more we do, the better.

18/7/07 3:28 PM  
Blogger meristem said...

I'm coming into realization of how much power there is to influence through example. My heretofore unrecognized influence has been reflected to me quite a lot lately by my friends and I finally said to myself, "ooh! opportunity! I should use my personal sphere to create a ripple effect" (I guess I'm just recognizing something that has been happening without my conscious intention and now I want to harness it--must stay pure though, no ego trip). It's the only way I've always believed we can really make change anyway.
My friends love me and are interested in what I think and feel. So when my courage and searching leads me to new frontiers I often report back to them about my wild adventures and have found this to be contagious and highly influential. I speak with passion and exuberance and am pretty articulate and pay attention to the subtleties, and my forum is people who are interested and willing to listen and consider what I share.
It isn't until just this very moment after reading your rallying cry JM that this crystallized for me.
I am the crucible for my own seeking and learning, I can digest and assimilate new perspectives, knowledge and experience by exploring new frontiers and paradigms and then I can bring my newfound knowledge back to the 'masses'! I have been told that my light is contagious, that I am a fountain of love, which feels like a sacred calling. Why not make good magic? (I believe that magic is my first language) This is not new to me, but it is well, crystallizing, gelling, coming together as one powerful entity of possibility....

Yes, JM! That's it! That's how we can move things forward! For others it may take another form or means of action. But I've just realized that this is my gift. It's not all for me, this constant hunger for knowledge, of self or otherwise. And I don't mind doing the research, the work.
Sweet relief!

Extra blessings and hallelujahs to you on your birthday!
Thanks the deities that you didn't walk away from RU.......

Um, how's that for roaring?

18/7/07 6:38 PM  
Blogger meristem said...

Connecting more threads from this here epic, multidimensional conversation:

Amazon women, as you mentioned in relation to Aries JM, would voluntarily remove their left breasts to make archery easier for them, if I remember correctly.
And then I remember learning that sculptural depictions of goddesses would often have the left breast exposed as a way to symbolize their power.
I don't know about you women out there, but my left breast is larger than my right.
Anyway, free-associating without conclusion.........

18/7/07 8:12 PM  
Blogger jm said...

my forum is people who are interested and willing to listen and consider what I share.

This is the most important thing of all. Our influence can be on 1,000,000 people or one. Exactly the same. It's our personal spheres that counts. I think people really come one by one anyway, so this idea of major shifts is erroneous. The shift is happening always in increments. Every speck of positive effect is invaluable and we need to recognize the potency of the small.

You have that NN in the 11th and you are destined to influence society in that all-encompassing Pisces way. It's a beauty.

I love the idea of the crucible. That grabbed me the other day. More evidence of Virgo being the alchemist. Saturn through Virgo in the next few years is going to be a great time for these things.

Your NN in Pisces is the way to disseminate through the mystical and poetic. You saw that yesterday in all the comments about your expression of things we all felt and understood. You have a beautiful way of putting it. Great emotional power with that no nonsense Aries Moon. I was certainly affected.

I remember about the Amazons and the archery. The fact that they are not coming off now (the breasts) could mean the metaphysical arrow is finding it's way in.

I'll check which one of mine is the big one and report back!

18/7/07 10:55 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's the left one. Much bigger.

18/7/07 10:58 PM  
Blogger Don said...

JM - for me, by transit - a goodly dose of uranian/piscean contact with personal planets..... you will see them - here's my birth info - Sept. 12 1949 9:03 AM Los Angeles California - moon/pluto has meant many years of living in a heavily repressed state. the saturn/neptune pass has on it has loosened things up a bit.

the flashes i mention are shifts in perception where parallel connections ( both inward and outwardly) seem to be emerging. your moon uranus comments - "an advanced application of the maternal instinct along non traditional lines" - just set off a sequence of those shifts .... basically that's the essence of what i have been evolving towards with the scorpio rising ( acquarian IC) and moon/pluto contact.
the discussion of wholeness and sexuality is interesting... the cultural conditioning around gender fragments and seperates something that needs to be brought together - but it seems not much can be intentional without adding to the fragmentation. things somehow have to emerge and rise from below with a volition and timing of their own - at least from the experience and perspective of this one male.....

19/7/07 2:17 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Thank you don, for the chart!

the saturn/neptune pass has on it has loosened things up a bit.

I love this word. Loosened. An astrologer once said this exact thing to me about uranus opposite my saturn and I never forgot it. It also was true.

I'm not one to fully go for this idea that repression is necessarily bad. Scorpio and Pluto do this for reasons. Many of the feelings are better off under cover and I believe they energe at the right time. I think excessive fear about holding things in is unhealthy to, and I hear a lot of this talk without really knowing all the facts. Maybe the smoldering emotions are really productive in the long run.

I'm emotionally expressive and sometimes it's excessive, so there are plusses and minuses to both approaches.

the flashes i mention are shifts in perception where parallel connections ( both inward and outwardly) seem to be emerging.

This one is great. Uranus is associated here as perception is so fast, the synapses crossed quickly, maybe, that connections seem telepathic, but they are actually linear and logical, I think.

but it seems not much can be intentional without adding to the fragmentation.

Wonderful statement. I think you're right. We should just relax about it to some extent. I think I will. Thanks for this accuracy.

I'll look at your chart shortly. The first look is the most important and I do it in just the right frame of mind. The story comes immediately when I do.

I've been thinking about Scorp rising in terms of the Aquarius IC. Good input.

19/7/07 3:01 PM  

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