Sweet Revenge
When Al was cheated out of the Presidency on November 7, 2000, Mercury was retrograde in Scorpio at 0 degrees. The Sun was in Scorpio, Saturn was at 28 Taurus, and Mars was in Libra. The Moon was in Pisces heralding the confusing times ahead. It just so happens that Mercury just turned retrograde again in Scorpio today, and the moon is in Scorpio as well. This ties in with the current lunation, does it not? The Full Moon in Taurus brings to mind the Saturn in Taurus and the earth's resources, also connected to Scorpio.
Whatever the political machinations behind the awarding of the prize, I think this portends several things. One is the changing focus ahead on earth dilemmas coming to a head when Uranus gets to Taurus, with the cooperation indicated by Libra. Another is the gradual cleaning up of America's tarnished image. A politician receiving this honor cannot fail to help. Saturn in Virgo is in the 9th house of international relations now and will reach the top of the USA chart and conjunct Neptune for a possible restoration. This is an auspicious sign. It also points out the orchestration of life's events. Had Gore become President he never would have found this solo path that has been the best turn in his life. The country would not have suffered the terrors and confusions it needed to end the Neoconservative attempted coup of the government. And it teaches me that revenge can be sweet, indeed.
posted by jm at 3:32 PM
130 Comments:
The announcement is noteworthy because it signals a new world recognition that the fight for global climate change and the work to revolutionize our energy production as essential to peaceful co-existence.
Well put Gov Bill Richardson.
This Jupiter-Uranus square is gorgeous! Lots of optimism in the air.
I've been feeling optimistic recently, expecting good news.
And what a great story. The underdog seems to lose out but later becomes the champ.
It's got excellent elements.
Aristotle claimed that there were four primary dramatic plots: Simple Tragic, Simple Fortunate, Complex Tragic, and Complex Fortunate. But, studies in effective communications suggests that the vast majority of inspirational stories fall into three types: the Challenge plot that inspires us by example to action overcoming odds, the Connection plot that tells us of relationships and elicits our empathy, and the Creativity plot that delights us with a mental breakthrough or an innovative approach to an old puzzle or problem.
Something to learn here. :-)
I've been mussing about with Solar Fire.
Gore has a triple conjunction of Mars ,Saturn and Pluto in his natal chart. The "machine savior" aka Al Bore?
I think Schwarzenegger has this as well, and he played the Terminator, another "savior machine". Gore goes from politics to movies. Arnold from movies to politics...
Actually, I think for Schwarzenneger it's Sun\Saturn\Pluto conj.
Gore's in the ending part of his second Saturn return.
Let me study these well thought out models a minute:-)
Mpk! I am so excited. Solar Fire!
This is fantastic. I never made the connection.
The "machine savior" aka Al Bore?
I think Schwarzenegger has this as well, and he played the Terminator, another "savior machine". Gore goes from politics to movies. Arnold from movies to politics...
Incredible. So simple. And so good on Mars-Sun-Saturn-Pluto. Can't you just feel it? Will be back in a mo on Aristotle and Gore's stats.
And it teaches me that revenge can be sweet, indeed.
just desserts?
Been feeling quite optimistic myself.
And dreaming.
The "machine savior" aka Al Bore?
amusing juxtaposition of words
Hey sticky bun!!!!
Speaking of just desserts!
That is a great one from our resident Gem, mpk.
I read an interesting study earlier in the week that says a very low percentage of American young adults (teens-twenties) holds a favorable opinion of Christianty.
There's a surprisingly unified sense between young adults, both inside and outside the faith, that the divisive, judgmental authoritarianism that's dominated Evangelical Christianity for the past 30 years has run its course. Furthermore: the "insiders" (as Barna terms Christians) see the same issues and agree with many of the criticisms as those on the outside -- and are openly talking about taking their theology in some new directions. There's an emerging sense that it's time to let go of the harsh legalism that's defined American Protestantism for the past three decades, and return to something more like the Social Gospel that demanded more of Christians than merely passing judgment on the details of other people's lives.
Interesting how as the churches have become more evangelical fewer people wish to participate.
Are we witnessing both Pluto in Sagittarius and the Uranus in Sag generation that is breaking away?
I have to get Gore's chart. This is a great opportunity to see astrology in action. I knew he wasn't running long ago and I'll tell you why in a mo.
I have Saturn-Pluto sans Mars and svaior I am (Mars-Neptune) but no machine. The grinding hunks of fire, steel, and rock really says it well.
And dreaming?
'Bout what?
Hey sticky bun!!!!
heh-
Mostly achy ones! Moving rock working on a shed and i've got the washer on it's front inspecting the rat damage. Contemplating a solution with metal, perhaps some flexible roof flashing. I am very, very tired of these rats. The hay wagon arrives and two days later a new wave of immigrants hits the Oasis.
a very low percentage of American young adults (teens-twenties) holds a favorable opinion of Christianty.
There's my Uranus-Neptune Capricorn kids. Realists. I love them more and more. And the Sag ones combined.
it's time to let go of the harsh legalism that's defined American Protestantism for the past three decades, and return to something more like the Social Gospel that demanded more of Christians than merely passing judgment on the details of other people's lives.
It's clearly happening. Watch this evolve as we move out of Sagittarius over the next couple of years. The religions are going to become more politically and socially responsible. We just saw it with the backlash around the children's health care. How can you be Pro-life and not be concerned? They're starting to get it. The global issues too.
i've got the washer on it's front inspecting the rat damage
LOL!!! I remember that dreadful time!
Oh no! They're back???? There must be some vegetable matter that repels them, although rats are one of the best surviving species known to the earth.
What are they after?
And dreaming?
'Bout what?
Honestly i have to laugh when i read Kadimiros' posts about his dreams, i do believe we may be slipping into some same plane.
I have been dreaming -working trying to finish things, in a circle sometimes surrounded by trees with an open space above open to the stars.
It feels very much connected to some big changes coming and also to something very ancient.
Big changes? Any ideas?
How 'bout a BB gun as a deterrent.
Honestly i have to laugh when i read Kadimiros' posts about his dreams, i do believe we may be slipping into some same plane.
I always thought you were already there together. Your first response to his first post said it all.
Wish i knew about the rats- this is the third time in a few months.
These are Norway rats and just about impervious to everything. They are not native to our desert and we have never had them until the horses moved in across the road. big problem. They get in the cars and eat the wiring too. Thousands of dollars of trouble. They eat holes in our houses. It's getting out of hand.
Today i called on the bobcats to come-on down. They head up to higher elevations during the heat. Time to come home. Ulli-Maki needs some help and -well lets face it Zamma is missing her main rippers on one side tho she is fierce and able to take down the desert's own varieties. Nobody messes with my desert queen.
Here's one fantastic thing about Gore's chart . NN in Taurus. What a way to use it. The Aries leader and pioneer nourishing his Leo ego at the same time.
Venus in taurus too. Saturn was in Taurus at the time of the lost election. Ain't it sweet?
Interesting that Bush also is Leo rising with Pluto on the ASC. Different strokes. Being president is not creative. Gore got lucky.
Taurus MC. This full moon right on it. Ihave a lot to say about his NN in the 10th.
BB gun. these guys are wily.
You never see them. A had some idea about a bait that suffocates them but is not poison. I need to think about this. Traps are not working. But the real problem is i live in a fairly isolated place and so i'm your country store....let's all go to tseka's house where the living is easy.
Her main rippers!
Must you kill these rats? Can you?
There has to be a solution.
let's all go to tseka's house where the living is easy.
LOL! Hey! You've got a Jupiter in Aries. Pluto on the way. Welcome to survival land. It's us or the rats!
Eleanor Roosevelt's birthday was yesterday- she was a wobbly node.
I greatly admired her when i was a kid. I remember watching her funeral and i was so young but it is fresh in my memory. Something about her drew me.
They ARE wily. The only way might be to outsmart them. Maybe the bait. They aren't in the right habitat and might want to be relieved themselves.
wobbly node
That's it! Perfect.
Eleanor. She had a lot going for her. This is why I am so unable to follow some of the women today. We had strong magnificnet women earlier in our history.
To me she represented the upper classes when they were correctly socially active and philanthropic, something they will have to come back to. Social resonsibility for all.
I just want to go out and wash my clothes.
Well i tried Irish spring soap some one told me this works. And it seems to for the local population but these new guys drag it out and eat it yum. You ever smell Irish Spring soap? I made the guy double bag it and it still stunk up the truck all the way home. Lingering smell too. It would deter anything. Except these guys.
Rats are ruled by Pluto and Gemini according to my sources. This would be a good time to get them while Pluto is returning to your Sun and Mars is coming back to Gemini.
Social resonsibility for all.
reiterating these millennial kids.
Ha ha ha!! Soap! There's something wrong with these rats. They're too desperate. I still think as before that they represent invading forces that must be dealt with.
There is something. Have you referred to old wive's remedies? could they be lured someplace else?
I have a hawk who is hanging out around the place sits on the fence watches us in the house. He seems quite interested in the cats.
He is a bit small to think of them (cats)for dinner. I'm pinning some hopes on him. what do your sources say about hawks? They seem marsian to me.
These kids are there. The glamor years of Pluto in Leo have run their course.
Sometimes sound can scramble animals' brains, beyond hiring the Pied piper.
Bingo!!!! Gold star, Madam.
Mars.
You ain't seen nothin' yet, Sticky Bun. The forces we'll be pitted against with the Aries-Pluto. This is good practice.
I have a feeling they'll be gone but I don't know how or when. They've come to teach you. The Pluto Mars sometimes has to go further than we would have liked to for self defense. You just can't be nice to a rat unless you're St. Francis, although I think that story was overblown.
Rats come up often in my songs. I wrote one called The Cat Scratch which pretty much covers the whole gang with high hopes of victory.
There's supposed to be a sound device that deters dogs, but I don't know how sensitive a rat's hearing is.
Speaking of trees and stars, jm might remember this poem of mine.
Through wisdom's heart a passage leads
to secret country under ancient skies,
where wildflowers bloom as midnight stars,
and the wind whispers truth through centuries.
Through dreaming eyes a vision pours
like gem-combed sun, the rainbow tress.
Yet trackless lands pass seeing's bounds.
My open heart holds wilderness.
"Being president is not creative. Gore got lucky."
He got to do what he liked again. Sometimes fate is kinder than at first realized.
That sounds like a tsekadream. you are kin.
Beautiful. Good not-too- tight rhyme but just enough to make it sing.
Really beautiful.
Thinking about Gore's NN in Taurus.
Because of some of the correlations we found in an earlier thread to a similar previous pattern in US history, it has stuck in my mind that NN Taurus would be our next prez. You recall that esoteric astrology fourth ray energies filter through Taurus Sag Scorpio.
RAY IV: HARMONY THROUGH CONFLICT This ray involves intuition and creativity. It has to do with the appreciation of beauty and color and the refinement of form. It seeks the point of balance between all pairs of opposites. Significantly, this is the ray governing the human race.
Sometimes fate is kinder than at first realized.
Great statement. I've always trusted it. I believe mostly in justice and from my perspective, it has never failed me.
Your poem is beautiful Kadimiros and feels very close to this dreaming-non dreaming state.
I remember vivdly that discussion about Taurus-Scorpio-Sag.
I think it might be beyond the prez who I see as a figurehead. Maybe our real leadership will be elsewhere. Who else fits this ray?
Well me an' Kad are just a couple of Node wobblies.
"harmony through conflict"...seems to fit.
Well hopefully it will be the people who decide that they are the embodiment of the 4th ray.
Just as we saw a surge of creativity in the late 20's, i am hopeful that we will find something similar with a big dash of integrity.
No matter what anyone thinks, this is a moment of pride for this NN Leo country. The Jupiter-Uranus square on our ASC, Pluto in the GC. Our leadership revealed even if it takes time to fully emerge. Out of the ashes of the last years, starting with his anti-election. Interesting the same Mercury retrograde.
He has the great Leo stellium plus the Sun in the 9th. NN. All Taurus-Scorp-Sag.
I think we are in the bridge crossing with the Jupiter-Uranus.
Today, Mars is exactly on the USA Jupiter.
Just as we saw a surge of creativity in the late 20's, i am hopeful that we will find something similar with a big dash of integrity.
It's already here. Today was a symbol. Watch it sink in as the country starts to forgive and love herself again.
The USA Jupiter is also conjunct Venus.
There is some resolution O feel about this. Al's ASC is conjunct our NN in Leo.
And this. the Moon was in Pisces when he lost. He's an Aries. We get a repeat of the 29 Pisces and the crossing to Aries in the works.
I expected the return of hope by the end of the Pluto transit, especially with the Jupiter crossing of the ASC. I don't think I'm wrong this time.
I expected the return of hope by the end of the Pluto transit, especially with the Jupiter crossing of the ASC. I don't think I'm wrong this time.
Yes, these are the last steps on the bridge.
Tho there are a few more years of hard work ahead of us. This moment is critical.
The real job for some of us will be to make the patterns of integrated energies like astrology and homeopathy and particle physics tell a story that people raised to duality can understand. One in which they can identify themselves greater than they ever have.
Astrology will be key is my thought. All the young millennials may be walking away from authoritative but i think they are walking to integrative.
I took my buddy out for a birthday lunch. Ex cop, republican, (a real humanitarian with the softest heart -confused maybe about identity) he is now sculpting and making jewelry and in love with his life. I gave him an astrology chart and we sat for hours talking about astrology. He was mesmerized. A homicide detective -of course a scorpio rising- I love this stuff said he. To me this tells me everything i need to know about where we are headed.
"Interesting that Bush also is Leo rising with Pluto on the ASC. Different strokes."
The two candidates both have Moon-Jupiter conjunctions, too. Gore's spans two signs, though, moving from Sagittarian fire to Capricornian earth. Interesting combination.
Correction from upthread: Al's MC is in Aries.
Gore's spans two signs, though, moving from Sagittarian fire to Capricornian earth. Interesting combination.
Sign of the times, eh?
Notice also the upcoming Pluto conjunction to his 5th house Jupiter, mentioned by mpk in terms of his centerstageness. It opposes the Uranus in Gem in the 11th so he serves his own purposes as well as the collective's. Kind of like your situation.
I'm always interested in these conjunctions that change signs. The Capricorn Moon also inconjuncts the Leo ASC. The leadeship things we were talking about.
Al's challenge with the SN in the 4th is getting out of the traumatic Scorpio past undertow. Getting out of the house. The Merc retro is right there.
Astrology will be key is my thought. All the young millennials may be walking away from authoritative but i think they are walking to integrative.
Tseka this is wonderful. Uranus rules astrology and the upcoming Uranian-Saturnian juxtaposition speaks of this.
When I started RU I didn't want to do too much astrology, but the people told me otherwise. They really want to learn and use it. I am so happy. I've felt a revolution coming in the astrological world for some time. I'm glad to be a part of it. It's becomes everyone's knowledge. My dream come true. On this Uranian medium.
Revolution IS coming with Uranus and Jupiter in Aries but not at all what people expect or say they expect. It will be unique.
Great story about your law enforcing friend. Gave me the bumps.
To me this tells me everything i need to know about where we are headed.
This is exactly how I read the signs too, tseka.
i'm off to work - er- dream....
thanks for the conversation
tomorrow i will print out your poem Kadimiros. I want to have it around me, i am glad you shared it.
Through wisdom's heart a passage leads
to secret country under ancient skies
I'd like to discover that country within the good ol' US of A. It's in the people for me.
"All the young millennials may be walking away from authoritative but i think they are walking to integrative."
Away from dependency on outer authority.
Political conservatives tend to be enamoured of external authority, attracting those too quick to offer them the outer semblance.
The countering influence is those of inner substance who dare to stand on the authority of the soul.
In May, we were discussing the natal charts of the late Yolanda King and -- her polar opposite in many spiritual and political respects -- the late Rev. Falwell. She had Sun conjunct Saturn; he had Sun opposite Saturn. Affected by their fathers in very different ways, they traveled very different spiritual arcs from common religious roots, finally to die on the very same day. Perhaps a circle was completed, able to contain opposites.
There we go! I was repeating the poem while you were dreaming of dreaming.
'night you painted desert priestess. And the same to the desert queen.
"i'm off to work - er- dream...."
LOL! Me, too. Hi-ho, hi-ho...it's off to dream we go.
"Astrology will be key is my thought."
Well, you know we often tune in on things via the charts and other things. I think we're receiving and transmitting on various levels. I think it's a way to refine the collective energy.
"I've felt a revolution coming in the astrological world for some time. I'm glad to be a part of it."
I think of eras in art. Maybe there can be a more artistic way of relating things.
Away from dependency on outer authority.
Pluto in Capricorn. Inner authority.
I was just thinking about that conversation The Falwell-King one.
Perhaps a circle was completed, able to contain opposites.
Very well could be. I felt it. I can't say enough how strongly the Uranian separation from authority is beckoning and this could have been part of the lead-up.
Truthfully, I though MLK was too authoritarian as well, or at least too much dependency went on around him. Too much worship. We should never worship humans, and age old pattern. I expect a lot of leadership transformation ahead with a continuing weakness for some time. Bush was perfect for this. people are becoming more and more engaged. They have to be. They have to take over. All the Aquarius ahead.
I think we're receiving and transmitting on various levels. I think it's a way to refine the collective energy.
We're doing an excellent job of this.
I think of eras in art. Maybe there can be a more artistic way of relating things.
Art is due for an upswing. The results of the Pisces transits and the Saturn-Neptune opposition will deliver and be utilized in society in many ways. The subtle vibrations the collective has been awakened to with the Uranus-Neptune mutual reception. The ugliness and celebrity horror show almost seem to be gasping and struggling to give way to a more refined expression. I think this will develop in the Capricorn years beyond art itself. Saturn knows that grace and beauty are vital to the smooth functioning of society.
"he serves his own purposes as well as the collective's."
Hmm, must think about that. There are ways to appeal. People often vote against their immediate self-interest because they ask themselves what would an "idealized" version of someone like themselves do. That is, they have higher self-interests or even higher-self interests. Other people are their leaders because they resemble (or make themselves resemble) the group's projections -- and/or they know how to persuade the group to shift its identifications and aims just enough to move it in a new direction.
"We should never worship humans, and age old pattern."
Agreed. :-)
People often vote against their immediate self-interest because they ask themselves what would an "idealized" version of someone like themselves do. That is, they have higher self-interests or even higher-self interests.
Hmmmm. That could explain a lot. Even a subconscious idealized version could influence this.
I think we always have the right leaders. They are symbols. We have to see the projection in order to grow and solve problems.
In the face of great opposition I will continue to say that the United States hasn't even begun to reach her leadership potential. This is very very interesting. An American politician during these times. The Nobel Peace Prize. The world is supposed to hate us. I just love reading between the lines.
The great development in the States has been the discussion opening up about Executive power versus Congressional. The Iraq war entrance was the Pandora's Box.
The talk was intense when the country was born but when have you remembered the people engaging in the debate lately? Much more is upcoming as Pluto returns and the newly identified country gets on her feet. When the people will become more aware of their society and the way it operates. They will most likely participate more in the governing. Just in time. We have a lot to learn.
This was the first thing I read as I stumbled onto the news this morning. What a welcome surprise!
I feel too, jm, that Al Gore winning the Nobel Prize is a major turning point. It is both validation and vindication for Gore and those of us who have endured the gratuitously crass and downright reckless ideological rampage of these past seven years. Winds of change of a different sort are now blowing, and picking up speed.
This has the feel of one of those watershed moments in time that will be looked back upon years from now as the breaking out point of a major movement, what, with Pluto and Jupiter conjunct the Galactic Center. Perhaps we will call it the "Green Revolution"?
Political conservatives tend to be enamoured of external authority, attracting those too quick to offer them the outer semblance.
The countering influence is those of inner substance who dare to stand on the authority of the soul.
I have this dynamic with one of my brothers. He stands on outer authority, and I almost entirely on inner. He wants his moral beliefs to be the law of the land, yet has a great tolerance for hypocrisy. I have low tolerance for hypocrisy, and the belief that individual morality shouldn't be legislated. He thinks humans aren't harming the earth and we don't need any regulation. I tend to think we are causing damage and should enact some laws to minimize it. His focus of concern is almost entirely on what affects his local, rural community, mine is mostly on what would affect the global situation, a belief more closely shared in the urban community where I live. He's most concerned with what creates community. I'm more concerned with what fosters individuals.
He relies on biblical scriptures, I have little need of them or any others, my knowledge is mystical and experiential. He deprecates his own talents and strengths, and ventures out little. I have traveled extensively and developed confidence in my own ability to develop my interests and talents whatever they may be. He believes in having a large family, I have decided not to have children. The list goes on and on.
He has been the catalyst in some way for much of my development. He gave me a book when I was young where the main character was a juggler. That's what initially inspired me on a track that's still going 20 years later. He gave me a jacket that I wore for 10 years, including to the top of the highest peak I ever climbed, a 20,000 ft peak in the Bolivian Andes. He gave me an album when I was a teenager that included a series of pieces of music devoted to the chakras. It sparked my spiritual development in a totally different direction than his, and one which he would not approve.
Isn't this bizarre?
"Hmmmm. That could explain a lot. Even a subconscious idealized version could influence this."
Often, an unexamined one. It becomes the group affiliations -- people asking what's in the interest of their group, team, or other larger social identity.
Where consequences are concrete, immediate, and significant enough (such as the pocketbook or their neighborhood), people do pay closer attention. There is still a lot of unpredictability in whether they will vote for their self-interest or for group interest -- but, however they vote, they will tend to be more educated voters on those specific issues.
So it's an interesting tension in decision-making, and the truly savvy leaders find ways to appeal/inspire on both group and personal levels.
My readings in effective communications tells me that we use two basic models in decisions. One model, the standard in economics, calculates consequences as if people were self-interested and rational. In the other model, people decide based on identity. To do that, they ask three basic questions:
Who am I?
What kind of situation is this?
And what do people like me do in this kind of situation?
They're so basic that you can see them paralleled in the Abbott and Costello routine about baseball that we were discussing last night in the other thread. They also relate to the idea of archetypes as guiding templates.
kadimiros, that poem... I've had that vision too. What could it mean? Mine came when I was out in the Arizona desert at night. I experienced it as a communication from an old Anasazi. He was teling me they went thru the passage to anther world. They were looking back on us awakened ones who remain here as "exiles in the time of dust, you have to be strong and do what you must." I have the whole poem somewhere. If I cut out the references to the Anasazi it's nearly the same as yours.
"The ugliness and celebrity horror show almost seem to be gasping and struggling to give way to a more refined expression. I think this will develop in the Capricorn years beyond art itself. Saturn knows that grace and beauty are vital to the smooth functioning of society."
They are very much so, more than people realize.
"This is very very interesting. An American politician during these times. The Nobel Peace Prize. The world is supposed to hate us. I just love reading between the lines."
The background drama and human interest of the whole story is an excellent setup for the message of collective cooperation and forward thinking that's being delivered.
It's exactly the way to get across ideas that might otherwise seem too abstract across to people. Not only does he have a message or important story to tell, his own life is a story of choices and consequences connecting the personal with larger spheres. And the film medium was the right way to go for him, even though he had to be convinced to do it.
"I have this dynamic with one of my brothers. He stands on outer authority, and I almost entirely on inner. He wants his moral beliefs to be the law of the land, yet has a great tolerance for hypocrisy. I have low tolerance for hypocrisy, and the belief that individual morality shouldn't be legislated."
Yes, I was thinking of you in connection with that. And you have a Sun-Saturn thing going in your natal chart, too, don't you? It's an amazing illustration.
"His focus of concern is almost entirely on what affects his local, rural community, mine is mostly on what would affect the global situation, a belief more closely shared in the urban community where I live. He's most concerned with what creates community. I'm more concerned with what fosters individuals."
I've read that it's part of a larger trend in the evolution of societies as they move from the agrarian through the industrial and to the post-industrial. Every developed nation has gone or is going through the shift in values. More emphasis on individual rights and freedoms. So it's definitely the bigger direction.
"He relies on biblical scriptures, I have little need of them or any others, my knowledge is mystical and experiential."
Exactly. :-) It's amazing to see the contrast within the same family.
Funnily enough, my sister is married to someone who politically leans decidedly conservative (though not in a religious sense). He is very considerate, works hard, and lets her take the lead in things important to her, so it all works out as long as they don't talk politics.
"He gave me an album when I was a teenager that included a series of pieces of music devoted to the chakras. It sparked my spiritual development in a totally different direction than his, and one which he would not approve.
"Isn't this bizarre?"
Whoa, that's pretty wild. I suspect that you're the one who agreed to go out, and who is bringing something back to the others who are much less intrepid. It doesn't have to be verbalized to them, but the fact that you've done and continue to do it adds something to their lives, even if they may not consciously recognize, understand nor embrace it.
"I've had that vision too. What could it mean?"
I think there are things that resonate, perhaps archetypal, and come out in individualized variations. I used to think of the spirit of the land itself, a many layered landscape of consciousness.
Although I'm city-born, I've always been attracted to the underlying landscape. It makes sense to me that people should have some familiarity and respect for the spirit of the place, although we may have practices from other parts of the world. I think that the old forests still exist here somehow, although physically I see buildings and skyscrapers.
"Mine came when I was out in the Arizona desert at night. I experienced it as a communication from an old Anasazi. He was teling me they went thru the passage to anther world. They were looking back on us awakened ones who remain here as 'exiles in the time of dust, you have to be strong and do what you must.' I have the whole poem somewhere. If I cut out the references to the Anasazi it's nearly the same as yours."
Hunh. A little bit exiled, yes, that was some of the feeling when I wrote it for my comfort years and years back. Hmm.
Yes, I've got the sun\saturn conj and I'm still exploring what that means. I have this phrase "consciousness focused through a grid". It's a tight orb, so it's hard for me to see it in play. It's just who I am. I have extraordinarily strong bones, and I don't bruise easily. I've taken falls and blows that would have shattered others. I have never had a cavity.
On another level, the story of the Anasazi passage to another world is also another manifestation of more basic reality or truth, so we can find it reflected in individual psyches in some way, probably even in people who can't begin to imagine such things. :-)
I believe that there are some native stories about coming from another place or dimension, and emerging into this world.
On another level, the story of the Anasazi passage to another world is also another manifestation of more basic reality or truth,
I think it is, my experience was localized but is probably a manifestation of broader constellation.
"He has been the catalyst in some way for much of my development."
I wonder if that suggests that underneath all the differences, he is actually supportive of you. :-)
I wonder if that suggests that underneath all the differences, he is actually supportive of you. :-)
He is.
One thing I've learned thru our dialog is how useless it is when we misrepresent our opponents. That is what is going on all the time in the media. The endless stereotyping and mean spirited insults which people think will win others over by the "ingenuity" of their viciousness. The misrepresentation of our opponents does not work...
There is so much here I don't know where to begin. Re-reading first.
Neo. Beautiful and inspriring.
These comments are incredible. The substance I've searched years for with love and admiration for language, and great skill with the words. Eloquence, pride, and respect.
The endless stereotyping and mean spirited insults which people think will win others over by the "ingenuity" of their viciousness. The misrepresentation of our opponents does not work...
Amen.
The comment on your brother was brilliantly stated, mpk, and this is a great line of discussion.
Will return. The perfect combination of earthly reality and mysticism here. This is how politics evolves. The two interests at work.
What a poem can do.
First of all, I'd like to applaud to the high heavens you and your wife's decision not to have children, mpk. It can be a great sacrifice, one of the most responsible acts of the modern age. Have you ever considered what one human produces exponentially in consumers? This is one of the areas of hypocrisy I still intend to cover. People screaming about the greedy politicians whilst on their way to the store to buy tons of plastic toys for the baby, who loses interest in five minutes. Much to be said. Not that they shouldn't have them. Just look at it.
You have Mars in the 3rd house of siblings, indicating conflict and high motivation from a brother. You stated it so beautifully, how he has encouraged your forward motion. Mars. The dichotomy is vital. It's Pisces and ultimate duality, which you need to experience for your wisdom. I don't think I've ever read such a well expressed statement about ideological difference. How deeply you feel it and how invested you are.
The ruler of the 3rd house in your chart, Neptune, is in the 11th in Sagittarius. Ideology and the collective. So the end result of the lifelong schism with your brother serves the other people in your life as you know experientially what difference within the context of love, is all about. In the end it creates unusual tolerance and growth for society, especially since you handle it in such an advanced way. Absolutely wonderful description. And use of the conflict, one of the main attributes of Sun-Saturn. The ability to use experience. You do the same for me. I'm able to put to use immediately the things you say.
This is very important as Pluto leaves Sagittarius. Most people are not extremists although they get the most ink for purposes of human tragic drama.
Where do beliefs come from? Some emotional source obviously because of all the emotionalism surrounding them. They serve a vital and specific purpose for each and every human and there is really no need to tamper with others' beliefs unless there is some genuine gain and the person is seeking this.
So they must be part of survival for each one which explains the desperation. The duality is how we get to know our own selves and evolutionarily learn how to re-unite with all our brothers. But the pain of separation could be why the agony surrounds a simple thing like ideas. The initial umbilical separation re-enacted. It takes a wise man to know how to have a fruitful relationship anyway.
Doesn't the limbic brain system or the hypothalamus govern belief? We should understand the mechanism and its importance to the individual. It isn't a cause for personal judgement as your case points out so clearly. People need their beliefs. Why steal them?
How do we blend feelings with ideas? This is what we are trying to learn through evolution and these differences are here to teach us. The differences occur in many many families. My brother and I, for example.
One of the most important things to understand is that the hatred and violence around the world, the oppressive governments, and so on, are NOT caused by ideological schisms. They are the symbol of where humankind stands at this time. Much more basic. The ideas are actually the path out. Either side, conservative or progressive, will ultimately end up the same. When we understand that the difference is not a life and death situation we can gradually come back together, the end result being equitable governments.
I would like to know how I can control my fear around these beliefs. There are many grades. Some are horrifying and those I can't take in, but others are worth considering. For example, I'm pro-choice. But I fully understand how someone could be against abortion. Even if someone blows up a clinic, it's not the idea that did this. It's just a hook for some other insane impulse in the person.
Somehow we have to see that opinions aren't hurtful in and of themselves. Actions are and they are separate.
Those of us like you, mpk, who have used the experience so well can teach the rest of us how to live together in some semblance of harmony. It's not easy growing up with a conservative in the house.:-)
I would really like to know what this triggers in us. The over-reaction to difference. Here's an example of the hypocrisy. A Liberal who says she is against prejudice completely and wants equality for blacks, women, etc. Yet she visciously rips Republicans even without knowing what each one really thinks. And then goes on to rip anyone who even would consider the Republican's opinion. This is rampant. It's slowing us all up. It's time some real discussion and debate, sans sensationalism, begin.
I also would like to pursue this line of thinking around voting for interests. It brings up some important mechanisms at work. In a bit.
Take this for example. The misguided Liberal.
The woman who deserves respect and special treatment in society could have just beaten her child in private. The Republican, who deserves no respect or consideration, could have just donated $5000 to the Cystic Fibrosis Research Foundation.
It's nuts.
The misrepresentation of our opponents does not work.
"They serve a vital and specific purpose for each and every human and there is really no need to tamper with others' beliefs unless there is some genuine gain and the person is seeking this."
The person has to have a reason, a real need for something other than what they had. And a modicum of intelligence helps, too.
"It's nuts."
Oh, counterproductive if changing minds and hearts is the aim. It can get some people short-term political gains, though, under some conditions.
One proven way to get more people to change their behavior or attitude about something is to make them think that other people who are like them behave in the desired way. They could be accepted peers or admired figures. It leverages the identity connection, instead of hardening it through resistance.
One proven way to get more people to change their behavior or attitude about something is to make them think that other people who are like them behave in the desired way
Absolutely. This correlates with my view that the only real and permanent way to effect good behavior is to encourage the person to want to do it. Great leaders can do this. Back to reward, and belonging is one of the best for humans.
So in a meeting of disparate views, the first thing to do would be to establish some common ground. Then cite the right examples. It can be done and I don't know why it isn't. Too much effort. Not thrilling. The love of conflict always rears its pesky head.
I briefly check a blog or two as I go and each day the euphoria around the hatred rises with energy and ecstasy. So they really don't want a good country, society, and government. It would be the end to the boxing match. This primitive impulse is so strong and seems to dominate the public arena, so we can't even get to reasonable dialog until this diminishes, or until some referees come on the scene.
Where consequences are concrete, immediate, and significant enough (such as the pocketbook or their neighborhood), people do pay closer attention. There is still a lot of unpredictability in whether they will vote for their self-interest or for group interest
This is how I read it on the "unexamined" level:
Anyone in their "right mind" wouldn't vote for Bush and the Neoconservatives a second time. But half the country did. This leads me to believe that the broader interest of the collective was served by the experience we had to go through to learn and evolve. So all the years of this group's influence are ultimately in our best interests, with immediate interests sacrificed.
I think there are times when we can have our immediate desires satisfied, and other times, when bigger evolutionary lessons are needed. We seem to know.
How do we marry our mundane perception with the higher dimensions? Or how do we get the others to start to see this?
For example.
The wheel has come around perfectly and everything is right with this Jupiter-Uranus square and the Nobel Prize. Everything preceding had to happen just as it did. Some people see this clearly, yet most have reverted to their usual bipartisan hysteria and cannot fully see the miraculous orchestration, yet here it is spelled out clearly. I feel like a tour guide. Just look up or over there. That glorious work of art. They're back to their self interest. Thinking about dinner and what to fear next.
Absolutely wonderful description. And use of the conflict, one of the main attributes of Sun-Saturn. The ability to use experience. You do the same for me. I'm able to put to use immediately the things you say.
I'm so glad. It's wonderful and I am learning so many things here. I just did my wife's chart for the first time and we only know the time within about 10 minutes. A few amazing things stand out. She has a triple conjunction of the Sun, Uranus, and Mercury in Scorpio. All three are trine Jupiter in Cancer. The conjunction of Uranus and Mercury is exact and these are less than 5 degrees from the sun. She also has an exact (with 1 degree) conjunction of the North Node, Pluto, and Venus in Libra. All three are trine Neptune in Saggitarius. Her moon is unaspected except for a square to Saturn. I don't know how to read this well yet, but one thing I immediately see is the connection to her linguistic ability. My wife speaks five languages. English, Spanish, French, Mandarin and Taiwanese. Her abillity to pick up languages is pretty phenomenal. She's also somewhat anti-social at the same time, the moon square Saturn as the only aspect...
Her Neptune is actually sextile (not trine) the North Node, Pluto Venus conj.
Mpk, I am so excited about this. You are in for a treat. I've often seen Geminis pick up astrology like lightning and become as good as the pros almost in a blink of an eye. It's always astonished me. Your Mars in the 3rd will facilitate this. All you have to do is just keep looking at the charts and they will align as if by magic for a person like you. When I learned I would frequent the used metaphysical book stores and the books would come to me.
You two have the opposite nodes which could pan out in a variety of ways. She's learning about relationship, and has that incredible conjunction, while you are leaving them in a sense, not to say you won't have a lifelong one. I did.
It might be difficult to see, but she actually is the independent one with lessons to teach you in that regard, and you are the ace when it comes to keeping a relationship together. Eventually you can relinquish that role and give it to her as she trusts more and more, and you can fly away and come back with ease. You have all the knowledge she's seeking. Amazing NN configuration in Libra.
The Mercury-Uranus conjunction exact is a big one. This is the genius mind and the facility with imitation which makes her so good at languages, probably dialects.
Mercury is the translator of sensory input and when working with Uranus, the mind picks up and processes information so fast that it seems like they are genius telepaths. It also sees tangents so they have unusual insight. See things no one else does, sometimes encountering frustration communicating the way they desire, though. Part of the "see too much" thing I talk about. Sometimes they can't even keep up with themselves.
The conflict between emotional need and mental detachment can be problematic, but the emotion ideally serves to keep her engaged in the relationship, when the Aries SN wants out, in some way.
What sign is the Moon in? Yes, a Moon-Saturn square can be anti-social. Defensive, protective, but the real culprit is the SN in Aries which has memories of being a loner, now wanting togetherness through the Libra. There is a strong pull to be isolated and unbonded, even when with others, and it takes time to let go of this. It can be subtle.
Moon is in Taurus... Thanks so much for this JM..:-)
If you do a chart for the wedding time you can see what the marriage is about.
You have Saturn in Gemini with life lessons around communication so naturally her facility with language is part of the deal. She probably has slightly less of the poetic since you are heavily endowed in this area with a Pisces 3rd house. Actually, a more linear development of thinking might be in your favor. Added to the poetic, of course. Analysis; being in the 6th house. Reading charts is a wonderful way to do this.
One great thing is her NN near your midheaven which means she can help you achieve your goals, but that might mean getting out of the cozy home a bit more. If there are conflicts around this, the end result is worldly achievement for you, which is very important with your Pluto on the MC. Power and control. Her Scorpio stellium is also positioned up there, so it looks like achievement, social involvement, is the name of the game. She can join you in this as she gradually comes out of her isolation.
Moon in Taurus!!!! OMG! I was looking for some grounding with all that water. I love the Moon in Taurus. One of my M in T friends always comes with commodities and shows her appreciation tangibly.
They can be hard to budge, sometimes and in some cases, the family was too materialistic and they have to learn to share intimacy without things being involved.
There is a central feeling of calm inside these people that beautifully balances emotional intensity, even if not shared all the time.:-) Very sensual people. I love watching them enjoy their simple pleasures.
What is it that attracted you initially?
Try this: the wedding:
http://alabe.com/cgi-bin/chart/43873285.gif
What is it that attracted you initially?
Her heart is kind.
The thing to be worked on is your NN on the ASC and getting away to do your own thing unhampered. There is far more pull on the SN and the emotional goings-on, and the you-and-me-against-the-world togetherness, shut away, safe and protected. There has to be relationship conflict in order to thrust you out. All of us NN 1s need this. We have to get to the breaking free point periodically, and it can get interesting to see how this comes about.
Very very interesting mpk. I need to get it converted to Koch houses first, but there are some stand-outs here.
Leo rising. Creative destiny. No children turned into tremendous creative output. Mars-Saturn straddling. It will take time. Incredible potential. Mars just on the ASC, so individual accomplishment triumphs. Moon in Gemini. You should be tackling that book easily when the time comes.
let me transfer.
The thing to be worked on is your NN on the ASC and getting away to do your own thing unhampered. There is far more pull on the SN and the emotional goings-on, and the you-and-me-against-the-world togetherness, shut away, safe and protected.
We're very aware of this truth. I think it will be Ok.
Leo rising. Creative destiny. No children turned into tremendous creative output. Mars-Saturn straddling. It will take time.
That's it!!! It will take time, but I know how long it is. The energy is just tremendous, and it's growing but has to wait. Less than three years now.
The home and the world theme is repeated in all the charts. There is a solid foundation, but the thing to work with is that it doesn't become suffocating or drowning. The feeling realm is functioning well (the heart attraction), the mental probably needs attention. Jupiter at home squares the creative ASC, more 'out of the comfort zone.'
The wedding chart in particular shows outer world application with the wonderful home base of Jupiter on the MC on Scorpio. Most of the planets are above the horizon which is the objective, external.
The Sun in Cancer in the 11th is a repeat of her stellium in your 10th-11th ...social involvement. Taking emotional security out to others. You are good at that.
There does seem to be a money dilemma. Venus at 29 Taurus, SN at 29 in the 2nd. I get the feeling that there will be a major transformation as to what's valuable, what can be relinquished, how much acquisition is enough, how to invest, etc. Moon in Taurus needs material security. Taurus is at the MC of the marriage chart but Venus at 29 tells a story yet to unfold as to what the material aspect will turn out to be in this marriage.
Extremely creative. Jupiter in Scorp square Mars-Saturn in Leo.
There does seem to be a money dilemma.
Working on that one right now too. It will take time and we haven't decided yet as you mentioned how much is enough. But we are currently well equipped to sort this out.
Mpk, I am so glad this came up. I was concerned since I know the NN 1 so well.
Let the whole thing take as much time as possible.
The most important thing with the NN1 is to know completely that your destiny is solo in some way, which has nothing to do with whether or not you are in a relationship. Getting free to pursue your life will happen no matter what. Many NN1s have successful marriages, but it's not really what they want the most. They want identity and full actualization of potential. Relationships are the easy part. They happen automatically. Not for her. She is developing this so she will learn from you. Freedom and autonomy are paramount. No children will help tremendously. You can be real partners.
You can invest heavily in the relationship as long as you know that you are two ships. They called me and my man, "The most together-apart couple they ever knew". We even lived in seperate apartments sometimes when creativity was on a high.
The most encouraging factor here is the Mars-Saturn conjunction on the marriage's Leo ASC. This is your ace. Whatever troubles you encounter they will fuel your creative destiny.
The home and the world theme is repeated in all the charts. There is a solid foundation, but the thing to work with is that it doesn't become suffocating or drowning.
I think this is worked out as well. I always have had an extreme sensitivity to where I can live. Currently, I'm living within a short drive of about a billion things (San Francisco Bay Area). I can have my cake (home) and get away so very easily too, even if it's only for a short time. My new house was also carefully selected for this. Adventure just out the back door. I've joked that my house is "base camp" because of the proximity to so many types of adventures.
LOL on the money! That's ongoing. All relationships have glorious conflicts leading to resolution if we so choose. It's easy to work it all out if the desire is there. It all is designed to get is to self realization and the wise among us treasure our relationships for this purpose, welcome the character of the entity, and use it well. Every relationship.
A relationship is almost like a 3rd person and has a life of its own.
I understand completely your "home" longing. One thing to remember is that the SN in Cancer is destined to give some of this up, but later. When the world has more to offer and home gives up competing. You'll know. But in the meantime a lessening of hope for the perfect home would be ideal. It will be good enough. The energy should go primarily to your Capricorn achievement and recognition.
I'm experiencing this now with my Sun in Cancer in the 4th. I DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE. But my destiny has some things in mind as Pluto heads to the top. I already feel the change coming. The time I will want to be out there fully. Home will remain as is. My sanctuary. I'm getting it situated now, but a lot I thought would be done, won't. The calling is coming.
They want identity and full actualization of potential. Relationships are the easy part. They happen automatically. Not for her.
Absolutely correct. My goal and my prayer is full self actualization. No bones about it! What a game, let's get on with it. :-) I have been working on this not longing for home, or for getting to that place sooner. (It already exists, I own it!). As I approach it, it actually seems to matter less.
As I approach it, it actually seems to matter less
What I mean by that is, as I approach it, it's becoming nothing but energetic potential. I'm almost feeling like I don't even need to be there as I once envisioned... it exists as energetic potential and when not in use by me it just generates money.
Now that is interesting. You're already home. You'll always have one. No need to work on it much.
As I approach it, it actually seems to matter less.
Oh I love this. Says so much about desire and contentment. Really really good one.
I'm almost feeling like I don't even need to be there as I once envisioned... it exists as energetic potential and when not in use by me it just generates money.
IDEAL!
I can't tell how much I enjoy talking about this actualization thing. I felt a wave come through me reading your comment. It really is the answer and it's so simple. People don't like my simplicity in using the NN as the key to it all, but it works.
This is wonderful. You and I are at the threshold. I have Pluto on my Mars, ruling the ASC, and you have Pluto coming across. Very soon. Now is the time Potential beware! Home? well.... I'm glad my roof doesn't leak.
No bones about it! What a game, let's get on with it. :-)
Amen, Brother MPK.
I'll tell you this. I had a physical pain that was bothering me for the last week and it was starting to get on my nerves. A feeling of well-being came over me as I was just heating up some soup and I realized the pain was completely gone. Then I read your comment about full self actualization. Need I struggle more?? Jeeze, it's so not-complicated.
btw, Jupiter on the IC in the marriage chart...good for real estate.
"How do we marry our mundane perception with the higher dimensions? Or how do we get the others to start to see this?"
Hmm, on the one hand, sometimes people -- both the disseminators and the recipients -- need to simmer until they're alchemically ready for the next thing.
So we have to allow for process, the creatively immanent goddess. "Embodiment" is the word that comes to mind, on several levels.
People have ideas often enough, but ideas need to be made more tangible to stick in the mind, have impact and be effective. People who are passionate about their ideas but aren't effective communicators have something to learn if they want their ideas to be well received outside their own ivory towers. It's the rightful role of the audience to be open, but skeptical, too.
People who are passionate about their ideas would be pleasantly surprised if they would follow sound principles of effective communication.
And, the creative is not nearly as difficult as people think. A lot is planting seeds around which events sprout or cluster. In conversation even. A lot is observation, paying attention, outer and inner listening -- ideas are practically presented to us if we look for them and invite them. The creativity of worlds is open to us, we're not here to reject the material and attempt to create ex nihilo.
The determinative difference between people who do not only stop at reacting but take that energy further to create is in how they use the energies available.
Really, the negativity is like foxes complaining of sour grapes while life is amazing all around. Settling for quick addictive fixes and easy blaming. If we trust life, believe in it and accept the terms and challenge of existence, then we have a different attitude.
Maybe it's not only "student ready, teacher appears" but also "teacher ready, student appears". Steps to take.
sometimes people -- both the disseminators and the recipients -- need to simmer until they're alchemically ready for the next thing.
Very well stated, kadimiros.
People have ideas often enough, but ideas need to be made more tangible to stick in the mind
The ideas will stick when the receptors are there and ready. So I guess the plan is to keep putting it out until the magic time comes.
I think it's good practice. Look how often we creative types can collectively turn sense into nonsense and vice versa. :-) There is method to our madness, and madness to our method.
LOL!!
Look how often we creative types can collectively turn sense into nonsense and vice versa. :-)
Our lucky talent.
It's fun to be cognitively flexible. I nonproductively entertained myself the other day making this animated illusion appear to change direction. I found that I could do it at will. I guess that makes up for cleaning the refrigerator and freezer the previous weekend, heheh.
Nonproductive!!!!!
Now THAT'S nonsense!
This is great. I did your mental gymnastics and it felt wonderful. Yoga in cyberspace.
It's almost like tai chi without having to get up, ha ha!
The commentary shows how defensive and threatened a few people get when they are confronted with something they don't understand. They come up with all kinds of convoluted explanations for a simple perceptual thing.
It's fascinating that some people can't get the illusion to change direction. A few that can't accept that others can, and a few just refuse that anyone else is telling the truth. Amazing! :-)
The commentary shows how defensive and threatened a few people get when they are confronted with something they don't understand. They come up with all kinds of convoluted explanations for a simple perceptual thing.
I've noticed that. Dates back to the mastodon, perhaps.
Yeah, wasn't there a story about a group of blind cavemen groping the mastondon? Or something. ;-)
Oops, there goes my spelling. Guess it's my bedtime!
To dream, perchance to risk. Back to the nonrational. Ahhhhh.
I don't recall that one.:-)
I just remember that Fred Flinstone used to enjoy mastodon cutlets quite frequently. Wilma did a good job with them.
Good night you mispelling genius!
Yeah, at least one of them got quite a kick out of it. A good swift kick, that is. Not sure if they ever came to a consensus about the nature of the beast.
Good night, and sweet dreams to all. :-)
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