Berries For Breakfast
I'm combining my berries with Neith's who just introduced me to the cloudberry, a rare and highly prized species that grows near the Arctic Circle.To the left we have mulberries, blueberries, gooseberries, and currants. Accompanying these delicious and exotic fruits is a lemon cardamon cake along with the usual dark, rich , aromatic, freshly ground and brewed coffee. Water buffalo milk is available for those who would like that.
I hope everyone has a productive and satisfying week. Maybe a little ease as we get ready for the fiery full moon in Aries.
Happy month of October to all!
posted by jm at 1:02 AM
147 Comments:
Love the berries! My favorite since childhood. On Vashon, huge blackberry bushes grow everywhere, and only a few brave souls venture out to pick them. Mostly, they just fall all over the road and make a mess. Too bad, because they make the best jam. However, I'm still working on that box of peanut butter Puffins -- now with bananas, thanks to last week's "serving suggestion" photo.
I tried to post a follow-up comment to last night's discussion but my computer crashed. It's been doing some weird thing for about a month, not sure what's going on. In any case, I got frustrated, turned the thing off, and watched Demi Moore in The Butcher's Wife. The critics panned it, as I recall, but it was a nice message about letting love happen and how people tend to end up with the wrong partner because of what they think they should do, when thinking has nothing to do with love.
Joe, I loved those last two comments you posted. As I always tell my clients, you can't get what you want until you know what that is. I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess as to how many people don't know, but it's probably along Neith's 98 percent figure.
What I want right now, though, is coffee! Oh. . . fancy that. A cup just appeared in my hand :-)
"A cup just appeared in my hand :-)"
Damn, you're good....I can never get breakfast together.
"As I always tell my clients, you can't get what you want until you know what that is."
I've had a few clients who think they know what they want -- until they see what they asked for, and realize that it doesn't fit in with the rest of their plans!
As I always tell my clients, you can't get what you want until you know what that is. I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess as to how many people don't know, but it's probably along Neith's 98 percent figure.
LOL! I spend 40+ yrs figuring out what I wanted in a partner . . . finally got it too! All this discussion on what people want reminds me: "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it" There are many, many folktales out there that illustrate that point.
I have come to the conclusion Kad doesn't need much sleep . . . :-)
Heh....My sister always says that we're like that because we never had regular bedtimes when we were kids.
I sometimes quip that it's just because our brains aren't wired to recognize linear time.
our brains aren't wired to recognize linear time.
Is that what it is?
I tried to post a follow-up comment to last night's discussion but my computer crashed. It's been doing some weird thing for about a month, not sure what's going on.
I've been having problems too. Wonder what it is. Of course Pluto is stationing opposite my Venus in the third.
"Is that what it is?"
Probably not. Once we gear up and really get going, we get into doing whatever we're doing in a kind of intense way. Maybe we keep going because we can. Heaven help anyone who gets in my sister's way.
It's all about enthusiasm, one of the greatest energizers known. If we did what we want to, we would be full of real vitality.
Maybe you're enthusiatic about life?
Hmm, I know as Capricorns, we're hyper aware of cautions, but we like adventure stories. She read Nancy Drew when she was a teen. Together, we used to watch Buffy kick vampire butt. Sometimes, I'd think, if only life were that simple!
My sister tells of how she couldn't wait to get her driver's license and zoom down the highway. One day I showed her a simple -- simple! -- single player driving game on computer. She spent hours navigating around obstacles, leaping gaps in the roads, and howling with laughter at the inevitable car crashes. Then we went on to other things.
Something about movement and acceleration is appealing. We love flying dreams. I remember dreaming one time of whizzing past stars blurred by speed, diving gleefully at the secret hiding within the galaxy. It was a blast.
We like to look at how things work. We figure out how to do things, and then we do it. We like grappling with annoying little problems and making things work better. They're like creative puzzles to us. We're very hands on. Anywhere we work, we leave the staff operations in a dramatically more streamlined and healthier condition than ever before.
We're different in that she's much more sociable and makes friends everywhere she goes, whereas I'm more sympathetic to people and choosy about relationships.
Sometimes I hide my interests. My best friend is very enthusiastic in an open way. It's the first thing that endeared him to me. One day he had a psychic reading, and the reader got the impression, as I had gotten, that before he was born he was eager to leap into the fray of physical existence.
Something about movement and acceleration is appealing
Excitement. Maybe the fear of stagnation. It keeps body parts functioning through use.
The whole muscular system is primed for action and needs to be exercised. The right application of potential energy is the key.
What I find interesting, since life is all movement and action is the birth process itself where we seem to be propelled by another force.
Maybe after we get our legs we pit ourselves against this force to develop personal will. Our acceleration might be our ego and self determination.
"Maybe after we get our legs we pit ourselves against this force to develop personal will. Our acceleration might be our ego and self determination."
Sounds oppositional!
I was thinking of Mars energy as the active side of love, the wanting to explore the particulars of the beloved.
I was thinking of Mars energy as the active side of love
Love is part of it. Mars is the pursuit of objects of desire.
The opposition comes in when Mars is thwarted in this pursuit.
Hmm, excess attachment to a specific result is a biggie.
The energies represented by Mars are very individualistic, aren't they? Yet individuality is so necessary to love and being loved.
[E]xcess attachment to a specific result is a biggie
It sure is, Kad! Critical point.
Eastern spiritual methods (as much as I understand them) attempt to teach the student to let go of all desires. If I understand correctly, you do this by dissolving the ego.
This may work for some people, perhaps many, I don't know. It's definitely not a path for anyone with strong Pisces energy, as we already have problems with ego differentiation. We're one sign that needs to develop MORE ego, not less.
In Western occult tradition, the path to spirituality is via a strong desire, the thing you want more than anything else in the world. The only rules are that it can't involve harming or changing another person or forcing someone to do something against his will. But anything else is fair game, and it's best that it's something material/tangible, NOT something vague like "spiritual enlightenment."
The concept is that, unless you want something badly enough, you won't do what's necessary to get it (why I never take chances with my morning coffee!).
Now, it usually happens for most people -- especially those newly on the path -- that they discover that they really DON'T want what they thought they did, as Kad pointed out earlier. Then it's a matter of fine-tuning and getting closer to the heart's true desire. This is when it really starts getting interesting.
What I had to learn a while back was not to make apologies for wanting something material. We're in this realm, with physical bodies that need food, shelter, clothes, and human contact. And it might as well be good, while we're at it. Why would I wish for or settle for dishwater coffee? Cake made with white sugar and Crisco, because it's cheap and plentiful? A polyester shirt that covers me but is a color that makes me look pasty and nauseated? Why not desire berries and cream, with a fabulous homemade cake and rich, dark coffee?
Neith mentioned the influence of Uranus in the previous thread. This is interesting, too. Having Uranus on my natal Moon hasn't changed my wants and needs much, because I've been working on this for more than ten years. What it has been doing is to make me more aware of unconscious beliefs and thought patterns that were preventing me from getting what I want. It's amazing what we continue to hang onto, totally unaware until something happens to get our attention - or, as is often the case, continues to happen over and over, each time more dramatically, until it gets our attention.
It's too bad that so many people are put off by the heavy emotional lifting that has to be done before we can use this tremendous power we have. Was it Joe who wrote something about gods in the making? There's a famous Nelson Mandela quote to that effect. I read it years ago, and it had that arrow-of-truth-directly-to-the-center-of-the-heart impact.
What it has been doing is to make me more aware of unconscious beliefs and thought patterns that were preventing me from getting what I want. It's amazing what we continue to hang onto, totally unaware until something happens to get our attention - or, as is often the case, continues to happen over and over, each time more dramatically, until it gets our attention.
This is so true, Pat - and there is nothing like a powerful outer planet transit to get our attention. Of course, for some folks the minute the transit is over, they dive right back into the old comfort zone . . . if there is anything left!
Why not desire berries and cream, with a fabulous homemade cake and rich, dark coffee?
Oh yes!! :-)
It's amazing what we continue to hang onto, totally unaware until something happens to get our attention - or, as is often the case, continues to happen over and over, each time more dramatically, until it gets our attention.
Yup. That's what we're faced with as Jupiter ends its year in Scorpio.
The energies represented by Mars are very individualistic, aren't they? Yet individuality is so necessary to love and being loved.
Yes. Mars is concerned with the self and its specific desires. Establishing separate identity. Maybe with Mars, love is happenstance. I really don't know for sure where love falls, but I'm inclined to think it's in the air element.
Mars is not aware enough of the other only insofar as it serves to satisfy his desires. A lot of love goes under this guise.
Love comes and goes. Maybe stemming from a basic feeling of well-being.
Mars is most of all about thrust. He wants to impact his experience, not let it happen. He leans into everything and conquest is one big goal. Domination. That's why Martians are often so competetive. There is a subduing of others that is part of what Mars seeks. It could be only to ensure his continued forward motion.
It's impossible to underestimate how hard Mars will push obstacles out of his way.
Love might come in an in-between moment of rest.
Hmm, excess attachment to a specific result is a biggie.
Ssshhhhh...Don't tell that to Mars.
This is not how Mars operates. He is no where near that advanced level. He intends to have that result, no room for doubt. This is what others either admire or detest in the pure Aries. He will not be daunted. He will not be himself and fulfill his destiny until he gets the exact result he desires.
Failure to do so is temporary and he will immediately reroute in pursuit of something else that mimics the original impulse. I've never seen anyone react when they can't possess me, like an Aries. He's gone before an eye can blink.
Not one to philosophize about detachment and all of that. I want it and that's that! And off they go.
Martian people were born to do and get what they want, probably coming from a past of self sacrifice.
BTW, there's a Full Moon in Aries on the 7th. Good time to study this.
Or do it!
I've mentioned this before, but Mars is the thrust that gets us out of the birth canal. You tell that to the creature in there....that he's too attached to the result.
Sometimes I question the ideal of letting go of all desires. Is that even possible? At least not while we remain human and incarnate, I suspect. I've heard of spiritual teachers that are wonderful at teaching meditation and at reaching states of bliss, but who have "stone age psychologies."
"It's definitely not a path for anyone with strong Pisces energy, as we already have problems with ego differentiation. We're one sign that needs to develop MORE ego, not less."
This is all making me think of Goldilock's three bears -- too much, too little, just right.
"Why would I wish for or settle for dishwater coffee? Cake made with white sugar and Crisco, because it's cheap and plentiful? A polyester shirt that covers me but is a color that makes me look pasty and nauseated? Why not desire berries and cream, with a fabulous homemade cake and rich, dark coffee?"
Your analogies are making me laugh. I may never look at food the same way again! In fact, I think it's about time to go out for another chocolate run. It's starting to get chilly out, so some hot choco mix is in order.
"Neith mentioned the influence of Uranus in the previous thread. This is interesting, too. Having Uranus on my natal Moon hasn't changed my wants and needs much, because I've been working on this for more than ten years. What it has been doing is to make me more aware of unconscious beliefs and thought patterns that were preventing me from getting what I want."
Uranus on Moon -- I don't remember my general wants and needs changing, although I remember leaving a part time job and becoming more of an independent contractor, and there was a relationship with a Moon conjunct Neptune type that sort of peaked and didn't work out quite right, although I wasn't really expecting it to. From that, I felt sadness at letting relationships go that have served their purpose.
"It's too bad that so many people are put off by the heavy emotional lifting that has to be done before we can use this tremendous power we have."
That makes sense. I for one went through dramatic changes after points where I committed myself to do whatever I would need to do.
Sometimes I question the ideal of letting go of all desires. Is that even possible?
I think it's called death.
I'm not sure that tells me if it's possible! Heheh!
I thought of that. I had tacked on a 'maybe' but took it off before posting.
Ah. Well, it's a good point. One of my clients says the way of buddhism is the way to death! He didn't like the way the buddha laid down and died.
Do social constructions impact society's experiences of whatever these forces are?
I'm looking at one of Rob Hand's books, and he writes that Venus represents noncoercive bonding energy, and coercive force is represented by various combinations of Mars, Saturn, Pluto. On Mars, he asserts, "...A very strong-seeming Mars may disguise a weak one. Domineering or bullying behavior is not the normal style of an adequately strong Mars. Those who thrill to the glory of competition and enjoy testing the courage are really the ones in whom Mars is strong. They like to see how far they can go in any endeavor, and how strong they are with respect to others. The strongest Mars types of all have little desire to compare themselves to others. They prefer to improve on their own performance, constantly becoming better and stronger.
"Thus the Mars type is an individualist. Mars people do not want to compromise their own integrity by following a path set by another, so this type is often the first to go where none have gone before. The true Mars type wants neither to dominate nor be dominated, but wishes to be left alone, free to pursue whatever path is desired. For this reason, however, the Mars type may have difficulty in relationships, especially work relationships. In love relationships the Mars type needs a partner who is an independent equal, capable of going his or her own way when necessary."
Actually, that sounds a bit detached. Oh, blah, I think this stuff is getting too psychological for me! I'm going to enjoy my sweet tea. :-) It's attracting me to it.
The true Mars type wants neither to dominate nor be dominated, but wishes to be left alone, free to pursue whatever path is desired.
I don't think there is a true type. I don't agree with this, though. That he wishes to be left alone. It might not be another he domintes, but I think Mars is dominating some element. He's not detached. Most Mars types relate quite a bit as a means to establish their individuality.
Mars develops his potential by muscling against resistance. That, I believe, is fact.
And I don't see domination as a negative necessarily. Even with people, as some like this dynamic. Want others to take charge and make decisions.
Aries is just entering life and is fully engaged. Detachment comes later after much experience.
The true Mars type wants neither to dominate nor be dominated, but wishes to be left alone, free to pursue whatever path is desired.
This feels right to me . . . and I have that Mars in Scorp right on my ASC. I've never been interested in competing with anyone except my own performance. kj, being an Aries with Mars in Taurus on her ASC is very much a Mars type too, maybe she can give us feedback on this . . . in the morning . . :-)
This is interesting in your case, with an intercepted Aries in the 1st. So the inner Aries competition is masked by the Pisces detachment and all the Aquarius. I sense the undercurrent of follow through in 'true' Mars fashion. The urge to triumph over adversity, but it serves you well to appear to flow with the current rather than direct it. The full Aries is there for some reason though. Often there was weakness in the family line. Survival issues.
But I don't see you as wishing to be left alone, neith.
I think this trips us up. The disagreement concerning concept. Domination....Bad
detachment...good
winning....good?bad?
losing....bad
competiton...bad
cooperation...good
Everytime we plant a seed we work to dominate the situation and provide food. We water, fertilize, hoe, etc. to make the outcome what we desire.
Not anymore but when I was growing up, very much so. Maturity & experience change us all profoundly . . . for the better, ideally. Now I'm far more interested in following where my NN in Gemini leads!
Thankfully for us.
Most of the time I see Aries often stay by himself but watch everybody around with an eagle eye. Still, many are very socially involved, but still keep that eagle eye going.
Hello, checking back into the work world, and having a few comments...
"The true Mars type wants neither to dominate nor be dominated, but wishes to be left alone, free to pursue whatever path is desired."
Agree with Neith on that, but think it's probably more descriptive of Scorpio Mars than any of the other signs. The need to dominate sounds like a badly aspected Mars. And my own experience with Aries says they tend to be very competitive -- and not just with themselves. Just competitive in general.
And "thrust", Kad? I think that's a very masculine take. lol. I think of energy. Just energy.
Detachment is definitely possible. It's that state Kad's friend described: "She was an experienced meditator, but she said that when she came back, she was in a mode different to her usual one for a while. She said, 'I could be over here. Or I could be sitting over there.' She waved nonchalantly at the window. She could stay or go, take it or leave it. It was all good."
You just sit and watch the desires come and then watch them go. Witnessing yourself almost from outside yourself. Altered states.
Agree with Neith on that, but think it's probably more descriptive of Scorpio Mars than any of the other signs.
And I agree w/Casey . . . :-) Mars is so at home in Scorpio, it just doesn't seem to feel the need to be as aggressive. My Aries also has Mars in Scorp, and he's that way too. He is most determinedly co-operative . . . :-) I believe that has to do with his Saturn in Libra in his 7th house opposing his Sun/Moon/Merc/Jupiter in Aries. Saturn does make it's presence felt!
Another thought about Uranus transits aided by foreknowledge & experience with them. I've been far less inclined to be completely caught up in the "off with the old, in with the NEW" urges that come with that particular transit. By making plans with lots of viable alternatives, we can usually move through a Uranus transit more gracefully. BTW, my first few major Uranus transits to Sun, Moon, ASC . . . were NOT pretty.
Oh, hey! I just got a look at my sister's chart this morning.
I don't think either of us have seen it in years.
She has Mars in Aries, between one and two degrees! How about that? Hahahaha! Maybe I can think of her as an example.
The only aspects are sextile Sun, trine Jupiter-Uranus, and the orbs are between five and seven degrees. Are those okay orbs?
"The full Aries is there for some reason though. Often there was weakness in the family line. Survival issues."
How does that work? Personal or familial survival issues? My parents grew up dirt poor, and I think a couple of my father's closest relatives died from starvation or illness.
I wrote: "The only aspects are sextile Sun, trine Jupiter-Uranus, and the orbs are between five and seven degrees."
I meant Mars in her chart seems to have only those aspects between it and other planets (not that there are no other aspects in the chart.)
"I sense the undercurrent of follow through in 'true' Mars fashion."
I think that comes out more clearly after I'm committed to doing something for other people. I can be pretty yin sometimes.
"And "thrust", Kad? I think that's a very masculine take. lol. I think of energy. Just energy."
I wasn't the one who said "thrust"! :-)
I was picturing the so-called "big bang", though, and wondering if any of the planetary archetypes relate to the expansion of space/time that created the universe.
the orbs are between five and seven degrees. Are those okay orbs?
Yessir.
My sister tells of how she couldn't wait to get her driver's license and zoom down the highway. One day I showed her a simple -- simple! -- single player driving game on computer. She spent hours navigating around obstacles, leaping gaps in the roads, and howling with laughter at the inevitable car crashes. Then we went on to other things.
Uuuh... Beginning to see what I mean about Mars?
Personal or familial survival issues? My parents grew up dirt poor, and I think a couple of my father's closest relatives died from starvation or illness.
Very very often the case with heavy Capricorn. Rise in life from poverty.
The starvation factor could be the Aries. You probably don't know the full story. Or if there are other lifetimes, it would have been your own survival.
The competition with your sister speaks about your Aries. She probably represented a big threat. It's possible that had you had been overtly Aries she would have defeated you, so you wisely subdued it behind the Pisces mask. Works perfectly. You don't need her kind of aggression, but it's there just in case. Probably more as self defense.
I think the Aries child usually perceives weakness in at least one parent, whether conscious or not, and strives to overcome.
"Uuuh... Beginning to see what I mean about Mars?"
Isn't it funny? :-) She's gracious and highly sociable, though, and much more civilized than her first husband, who was a Sun in Aries. She's a healer (lots of blood and cutting and drilling, yeah), and he was a soldier. Don't have his chart to look at, unfortunately.
I wasn't the one who said "thrust"! :-)
That was me, so watch out!!!!
And yes. Aries is the quintessential male energy.
Uuuh...battering ram?....uuuuh...ever hear a ram butt a ram on the mountainside?
Well we can try to make nicey nicey out of Aries, call them spiritual whatevers who like to be alone, but I like the Aries archetype and have no intention of diminishing its incredible force.
Michael Lutin describes an Aries as the one who will go to the hospital and yank the tubes out, and make someone live. I did that literally, with my mother in law. Everyone said she was dying, and when I walked into the room she came back, sat up, and ate food for the first time since her heart attack. I spoon fed her. Lived for years after that.
We see what we want to see in others, though, so it really doesn't matter.
The question is when we have Aries in our lives....why?
All life is based on dominant and recessive genes and how they interact. Aries represents the dominant through and through.
The most important thing is to own your Aries placements if you have them, understand their impact, how to use them, and for a girl, it can be tricky.
She's a healer (lots of blood and cutting and drilling, yeah), and he was a soldier.
There you are again, Kad. Good use of the cutting instinct.
And good not to underestimate Mars.
wondering if any of the planetary archetypes relate to the expansion of space/time that created the universe.
Don't rightly think so.
"The starvation factor could be the Aries. You probably don't know the full story. Or if there are other lifetimes, it would have been your own survival."
I heard that my grandfather threatened to throw me out of the window (several stories up) one night when I was a baby because I was crying. I don't know if that was a serious threat or just talk. I was left with another family for some time when my parents had to take a trip, and I ended up dirty with black and blue marks. I don't know if my life was in real danger, though. Does that count?
"Uuuh...battering ram?....uuuuh...ever hear a ram butt a ram on the mountainside?"
No...don't recall that I ever did hear! I did read a science news item that suggested selective breeding is responsible for a high proportion of exclusive homosexuality among rams compared to other animals (besides humans).
Of course it counts.
was left with another family for some time when my parents had to take a trip, and I ended up dirty with black and blue marks. I don't know if my life was in real danger, though.
Can you imagine how you perceived that as a child? No protective mother in sight? And what about this mother who left you this way?
My mother left me often without protection, but I had it in me with my Aries rising, as you did with your Aries 1st.
When you look back from this perspective you will be amazed at what you see. And why you were born the way you were, from a metaphysical perspective.
The use of the attributes changes over a lifetime as circumstance evolves. We can use the energies more consciously. But everything is there for a reason all orchestrated. It's this orchestration I look at in a chart.
selective breeding is responsible for a high proportion of exclusive homosexuality among rams compared to other animals (besides humans).
No! Really? This is fascinating.
"All life is based on dominant and recessive genes and how they interact. Aries represents the dominant through and through."
Okay about Aries, but genes aren't really all dominant/recessive. Those were the easiest combination for Mendel to notice. Genes can be codominant, meaning equally strong. In which case, other factors enter in.
In which case, other factors enter in.
Such as?
Yeah, let me look it up....
Here's one item:
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3008
I think I've also seen it elsewhere discussed whether homosexual orientation was a natural adaptation for mountain rams. I'm think maybe that isn't the same type of sheep. Didn't really get into zoology.
and howling with laughter at the inevitable car crashes.
Pure Aries and the love of clash and impact. It gets tempered as the child goes on, of course, with socialization and everyone trying to imprison the force. Call it something else, until the Aries is a well behaved adult doing what it's told like the others. Some of them.
Mars was barred from the banquets by the other gods because of his uncivilized ways. This has been associated with his resentment of others and society.
Everyone has a Mars in the chart and an Aries house, where this is evident in some way. It's life force when channeled and the part of our lives where we have great strength and initiative. When we want a boost, we can go there, and the upcoming Moon in Aries will do that for everyone unless blocked.
"Can you imagine how you perceived that as a child? No protective mother in sight? And what about this mother who left you this way?"
I don't think I blamed my parents for how the sitter family treated me. I've thought it might have made me extra wary as a young child about adult strangers.
I actually don't remember any of those and other events from babyhood. They're stories my father or my sister related to me.
In college, I and a couple of students did a small consciousness raising project about child abuse. We made buttons with outrageous statements and set up a booth on a busy street to hand them out. Surprisingly, people were interested and took away buttons.
Surprisingly, people were interested and took away buttons.
People grab anything and everything. Put it on a plate and they'll gobble it up.
Everyone has a Mars in the chart and an Aries house, where this is evident in some way. It's life force when channeled and the part of our lives where we have great strength and initiative.
Aries is on the cusp of my 5th house & when one of my beloved Aries nieces was being wrongly accused by her mother & stepfather, I dashed to her rescue in true Aries fashion. Told her counselor a few choice truths & that was the end of that! My two Aries nieces are the ones who really bring out that fierceness in their defense. And when this usually mild mannered person pulls out all the Scorpio stops, it's amazing how quickly people find somewhere else they REALLY want to be!
And when this usually mild mannered person pulls out all the Scorpio stops, it's amazing how quickly people find somewhere else they REALLY want to be!
LOL.
"In which case, other factors enter in."
"Such as?"
Codominance: One parent with curly hair and another with straight hair; their children could have any of straight hair, curly hair, or wavy hair which is inbetween curly and straight hair.
Also, genes get turned on and off by chemistry. Could be in utero, could be after birth. It's one reason that genotype isn't the same as phenotype.
I read of one case where twin girls from the same egg and sperm, and who lived together in the same household, diverged dramatically in personality and looks. An X-linked inherited disease was activated in every cell of one girl's body but not in the other. XX from both parents, but which X chromosome is expressed in each cell of the body? In most people, it's usually random, different among the various cells. In some people, only the X chromosomes from one parent is expressed throughout every cell of an entire body.
A recent science news item reported a dramatically higher percentage of nonrandom chromosome inactivation in mothers of gay men than in mothers of straight men. In other words, something acting on the genes of the mothers of at least some gay men. Looking at the simple presence or absence of genes in gay men can't tell the whole story.
This year, I read that RNA inheritance has caused spotted tails in mice. The DNA gene pairs said one thing, but some RNA came along for the ride and said another.
Furthermore, there seems to be yet another code in DNA besides the genetic one we already knew about: "Scientists Say They’ve Found a Code Beyond Genetics in DNA". "The discovery, if confirmed, could open new insights into the higher order control of the genes, like the critical but still mysterious process by which each type of human cell is allowed to activate the genes it needs but cannot access the genes used by other types of cell."
XX from both parents, but which X chromosome is expressed in each cell of the body? In most people, it's usually random, different among the various cells.
That's one part I'm interested in.
"Scientists Say They’ve Found a Code Beyond Genetics in DNA".
Not surprising.
Oh, I just remembered. The calico cat (tortoiseshell cat) is a great example.
You know how it has those patches of color? If a calico cat is cloned, the clone won't develop the same pattern of patches. Biological traits, immutable, yet not genetic.
"People grab anything and everything. Put it on a plate and they'll gobble it up."
One woman could hardly believe they were free, though. She kept saying things like, "Really? I can take one?"
I guess some things are inherited by simple dom/recess, and others not.
I'll shut up now about the science stuff. :-)
We must learn. This is a good way without having to plow through the experts' often excessive verbiage. I can't read them anymore. They could say it in one paragraph. So this condensation is very beneficial in my book.
I'm still interested in the ram's sexual preferences.
LOL, okay. What is it about the rams' sexuality that interests you?
The reason for the homosexuality if this is so. Considering their immense male horns and power and the way they confront one another. It's a natural deviation in man and animals for a reason I would imagine.
Hmmm. Well, we know that genes that aren't detrimental aren't selected against. They may become useful in the future, or maybe not.
Most complex traits are polygenic. Genes that appear to produce an unusual result in some animals may have advantages when combined differently in other animals. So they are passed on.
Hmmf! I'm not finding a consistent explanation on the Internet about mountain rams. It looks like the scientist who studied them might have changed his interpretation after a while about why they have homosexual societies (see link for quotation). It looks like bisexuality is the norm in dolphin and bonobo societies. They are clearer examples of evolutionary adaptations strongly benefiting those species in a number of ways.
This alternative perspective looks like an easy read: Animals prefer...
Comparing bonobos with common chimps and humans, maybe sexually differentiated species that don't exhibit as much bisexuality have more extreme (and possibly violent) behaviors among their heterosexual members, too. The sexual differentiation of male and female isn't strongest in the human species. If men and women were more extremely differentiated from each other, society would be less moderate and more fragile. Maybe it would have been harder to develop civilization, if at all. Just a speculation.
The bonobos are unique and fascinating.
Comparing bonobos with common chimps and humans, maybe sexually differentiated species that don't exhibit as much bisexuality have more extreme (and possibly violent) behaviors among their heterosexual members, too.
That would be worth knowing.
If men and women were more extremely differentiated from each other, society would be less moderate and more fragile. Maybe it would have been harder to develop civilization, if at all. Just a speculation.
Interesting thought. Could be. If this is considerd civilization.
I've thought that maybe humans are moving toward not everyone reproducing. Maybe some sterility will evolve.
The evolution is thought provoking, the more I read about it.
Male common chimps are overwhelmingly bigger than females. It's not unknown for females to take their new infants away from the group to keep them safe. Males form murderous patrols and hunt down unrecognized solitary males. High hostility.
Bonobos, possibly a closer cousin species to humans, make love instead of war. Strange groups that encounter each other in the forest start off wary, but will soon end up playing freely with each other. As in humans, sex is partly decoupled from procreation, they can have sex all year round instead of being restricted to mating seasons.
The physical difference between bonobo males and females isn't as pronounced -- there's no advantage to it. Sisterhood is powerful: A group of females leap to a female's defense against any unwelcome advance or danger. Females have high status.
Bonobos are more gracile than common chimps, their heads are smaller but have a higher forehead. They walk upright more than common chimps. Females breasts are slightly prominent compared to the flat breasts of other apes, though less prominent than humans.
"I've thought that maybe humans are moving toward not everyone reproducing. Maybe some sterility will evolve."
In the short run, I think we'll live to see dramatic rise in male sterility from industrial pollutants. In the long run, I think you're right about overall lowered reproduction rate. I think people will value each other's children more than today.
"If this is considerd civilization."
Our societies are in a transitional stage. As a society, we're moving away from survival-oriented group mores toward everyone having the opportunity to live the way artists and scientists have always lived, with greater personal freedom to explore their interests.
The trend has been for industrialized nations to move toward respecting individual freedoms and expression. We see it reflected in the so-called "culture wars". This exploration has increased alienation for a time, and decreased communality, but the focus will eventually be reintegrated at a higher level.
As lower needs are satisfied, higher needs become important. Up the hierarchy of needs, and up the hierarchy of ethical development.
I heard a story about a woman who said triumphantly to her friend, "There! You see! I quit smoking!" Unimpressed with her act of sheer will, he said to her, "Yes, but can you take it or leave it?"
Actually, now that I think about it, I think the original quote was more along the lines of, "Yes, but can you smoke just one?" Basically the same idea. :-)
LOL...Mmm...the smell of popcorn. A friend who worked in a movie theater told me that I didn't want to know what the "butter" looked like before they slopped it on the popcorn.
"I've never quite believed the "kiss me goodnight" story. I think she was trying to kill me! LOL"
Aw, ha ha ha!
Oh, I had another story about hard liquor, but to this day, the culprit insists that my sister must've dreamt it all. It's interesting the kinds of things I heard about just because my sister is seven years older than I. Had we been nearer the same age, I wouldn't have ever known some of them.
It's weird about the past. I'm not denying the reality of the stories to other people, but in a way, I wonder if the past is open to some personal rewriting.
I wrote: "Had we been nearer the same age, I wouldn't have ever known some of them."
Sometimes, other members of the family are kind of like advance scouts for the rest. They forge a path ahead, and then others can see the results of that direction.
"And do we really "learn" that early in life, or do we chose that early in life, how to protect ourselves?"
Prolly a bit of both. I don't think we come into life completely tabula rasa. Babies have personalities. Cosmic forces, genes, cognitive and behavioral repetoires from other lifetimes, etc.
"We have very different memories and stories!"
Oh, that's so good for learning to tell stories. Because you get the multifaceted perspectives on the same family or whatever.
One week, a famed graphic designer was our guest teacher. He was very cynical. He'd written a book about how to make design difficult. He handed out a photocopy of a photo of the lined, grimacing face of an older, possibly Asian, man. For homework, we were told to come up with a background story.
A few people came up with simple premises such as crime and mafia. I said something like, "Okay. His eldest son has just committed suicide. This is a horrible thing for a traditional family. The reason is either unknown or is being suppressed. Everyone in the family is shocked, and each person reviews his or her own memories of the events leading up to the suicide. Maybe they feel grief, guilt, regret, remorse, disappointment, fear, hope, relief, freedom, etc.
"The intriguing thing is that they all experience radically different emotional and mental realities, and at different levels, despite the surface appearance of living in the same household. Some of their perspectives dovetail, others are mutually exclusive and contradict each other. But all based on the evidence of their experiences, according to their understanding of, and reactions to, them. In the end, we never do learn why the suicide happened."
The teacher said it was like a certain novelist (I can't remember the spelling). He glared at the class. It was very telling that a minority student came up with the most provocative story idea, he declared. He segued into a rant about how we were conditioned into dullness by mass media, listening to the same channels and reading the same things.
Why, he said, couldn't people look at the photo and come up with interesting explanations? Maybe he's just discovered life on Mars, he suggested. Personally, I don't think life on Mars would be all that, but maybe he wasn't as exposed to sci-fi as younger people.
That's an interesting concept. Maybe he is aware of them all, but only just realizing the implications of how they all interact. So he is a changed man. What will he do?
Everyone has a different -- some unconvincing, some persuasive -- explanation for why it happened, and a different take on what it means and will mean. But what does he know that the rest don't know? Hmm!
Our societies are in a transitional stage. As a society, we're moving away from survival-oriented group mores toward everyone having the opportunity to live the way artists and scientists have always lived, with greater personal freedom to explore their interests.
Excellent forecast.
Unimpressed with her act of sheer will, he said to her, "Yes, but can you take it or leave it?"
That's the advanced form of will. Preferred and "desired".
Popcorn might be my favorite food on earth, but circunstance intervened on my part. Aging teeth!
like to jump in and out of altered states as often as possible.
Funny. Me too.
I'm worried I won't have the energy (ie, fear will overcome) to begin.
Huge fear.
The ongoing dilemma. The Cancer fear and the Aries triumph. It happens all the time. If the fear were to overcome, then the thing wasn't meant to be. Cancer is there for the instinct. But if it needs to be done....don't worry! Aries will do it! He kicks in at the end of the anxiety sometimes. After it's felt and processed.
I wonder if the past is open to some personal rewriting.
LOL. It's called history which is largely fiction.
Memories are so subjective, anyway. :-)
Memories are so subjective, anyway.
So is the present. And the future.
Heh. That proves it. Time is an illusion!
Especially now with Neptune opposite Saturn!
Interesting. I sense that things will change in terms of time perception in a while, even to the point of being contracted to a stricter schedule. So this sequence of events that sometimes appears random is something to take advantage of.
I guess we order our time frame according to the needs of the moment. Nice of it to be so flexible after all. Or nonexistent as the case may be.
Time to let go. Linear types get queasy. Fun!
Time to let go.
You can say that again!
Oh, I just did!
There is one thing that has always perplexed me about the bonobos.
Their sexual greetings are quick and indicate that they don't have orgasms. I've often wondered about this and the satisfaction with simple pleasure. I imagine they save orgasm for reproductive sex, if they experience it like humans.
The sexual greetings from what I undertand cross gender and familial lines.
Very interesting behavior.
Hmm, good question. I thought I read that bonobo chimps do have orgasms during nonprocreative sex. At least, pairs of females emit sounds like that, according to human observers.
Let's see. Okay:
"The average copulation is 13 seconds."
"Humans make love for periods of ten minutes to half an hour or so. Gorillas barely manage one minute. With bonobos its over in fifteen seconds and excitable chimps barely make seven seconds. The entire species is founded on premature ejaculation."
So, it sounds like the males don't last very long either.
Maybe that means that bonobos have lots and lots of quickies instead of extended sexual intercourse. Unlike humans, neither common chimps nor bonobos have long term pair bonds between males and females. Those facts must be related; there must have been an evolutionary trade off.
Oops, I do hope the children are in bed and aren't reading this. (Go to bed, kids! YES, this is a grown-up discussion. NO, we talk about lots of other things, too.)
HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The entire species is founded on premature ejaculation."
Absolutely great specs. According to these, humans really drag it out, poor things. Some social pressure.
excitable chimps barely make seven seconds
They ARE high strung!
CHILDREN!!!!!! Back to bed immediately!!
Maybe that means that bonobos have lots and lots of quickies instead of extended sexual intercourse.
Looks that way but doesn't explain the parent child sex they have in greeting.
Wonderful information. I read a theory about the evolutionary trade off in human bonding, but it esapes my memory at the moment. I'd like to retrieve it.
All that said, you're right that they have non-orgasmic sexual contacts, too, as in their greetings.
Hmm, parent-child relations. Ah, I see. Females, after they reach puberty, migrate to new groups, thus avoiding incestuous procreation. That makes sense.
They must have sexual contacts in all shapes and forms. They seem to make no distinction in greeting, but they would have to in procreation.
I used to think humans were on the wrong track with their sex outside of procreation until I came across the bonobos. Not that this means that, but it did throw a curve into my thinking. That sex as negotiation has an evolutionary aspect.
Females, after they reach puberty, migrate to new groups, thus avoiding incestuous procreation. That makes sense.
Ahh-so.
Hmm, their mothers don't have sex with adult sons, either. So they do have another taboo behavior. Otherwise, they have "face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex.
"...Bonobo males frequently engage in various forms of male-male genital sex (frot). One form has two males hang from a tree limb face-to-face while 'penis fencing'." Um, that's probably more than a simple greeting.
Yes, sex has multiple purposes, and evolution has made use of sex for negotiation and barter, and for social bonds. Interestingly, the Eastern tradition puts the second major chakra at the gonads, and associates it with the most basic level of dualistic give-and-take relationships, with the ancients' element of water (horizontal vibrations), and with the planet Mercury. In myth, Mercury is the god of commerce.
Evolutionary forces don't really have conceptual restrictions about the use of body parts, otherwise, evolutionary mutation couldn't happen. The mouth, for example, is used for eating in less complex species, and in more complex species has been adapted to vocal communications.
At any time, the forms and behaviors of most species could be considered transitional, rather than as endpoints in evolution. Some quirk that makes little sense to us now may in future be set to a new purpose we don't foresee.
At any time, the forms and behaviors of most species could be considered transitional, rather than as endpoints in evolution.
Absolutely. Thus my fascination with the turtle.
Evolutionary forces don't really have conceptual restrictions about the use of body parts, otherwise, evolutionary mutation couldn't happen.
Good way of putting it.
Bonobo males frequently engage in various forms of male-male genital sex (frot). One form has two males hang from a tree limb face-to-face while 'penis fencing'." Um, that's probably more than a simple greeting.
I would concur.
Eastern tradition puts the second major chakra at the gonads, and associates it with the most basic level of dualistic give-and-take relationships, with the ancients' element of water (horizontal vibrations), and with the planet Mercury. In myth, Mercury is the god of commerce.
Now this is fascinating. Gives credence to the fact that the old sex and money game is destined for now.
It also might have something to do with the intensity of the visceral battle over commodities. In the Middle East, for example, I take it back to the temples and the money lenders as the blood/lust battle continues. The contol of the purse has led to the gouging and penetrating of bodies.
Very interesting.
Oh, wow! Congrats! You've arrived at a familiar yet new place in your life. :-)
"Now this is fascinating. Gives credence to the fact that the old sex and money game is destined for now."
Yes, I haven't heard it explained this way, but the connection seems to be that they are basic forms of mutuality and reciprocity, which requires pre-established separate individualities. Two-ness, as in Mercury's sign of Gemini the Twins. Commerce begins when barter becomes possible.
It's one level up from the first major chakra, the survival chakra, which is the grounding, root, or foundation necessary for individuality to begin (although its development continues at higher levels). The first is associated with Mars and its domain of concerns is that of elemental earth.
It appears to me that the alternation of self-expressive identity and relational interaction/merging continues up the spiral staircase of consciousness evolution in the chakra model, each higher level an expansion of energy into more richly dimensioned possibilities of activity and interaction.
Above the single point focus of earth and the horizontal vibration of water, are vertical fire, spherically expansive air, and then forces or vibrational patterns finer than the classical four elements.
Three names for the crown chakra of spiritual identity translate to mean "thousand-petalled", "empty, void", and "dwelling-place without support". It is all colors and all pure sounds. Curiously, it has a dual association with the nodes of the Moon. It is generally associated with the Moon and the South Node, and it contains a specific subchakra ruled by the North Node.
kj, it sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you. Maybe it will let you exercise mental and emotional muscles you didn't know you had!
"I do not scoff at the Ways of the Universe, Raging, or Otherwise. ;-)"
You express such a good attitude here and now. :-) I must remember your example.
"Re: your Asian man..."
Let me get back to you in just a bit. Have to shove a project out the door for a client.
Kj, just echoing Kadimiros' congrats.
i hope you do get a website up and running i would like to see the projects and directions that you and the daughter carry this into the future, continuity between generations, very nice! Elastic lines stretching forward and back...
I do not scoff at the Ways of the Universe, Raging, or Otherwise. ;-)
Beautifully put, kj. I think that's why we came to the decisions we did. The otherwise is something to look forward to.:)
Three names for the crown chakra of spiritual identity translate to mean "thousand-petalled", "empty, void", and "dwelling-place without support". It is all colors and all pure sounds. Curiously, it has a dual association with the nodes of the Moon. It is generally associated with the Moon and the South Node, and it contains a specific subchakra ruled by the North Node.
You mentioned this before and I can't get enough of the idea.
It appears to me that the alternation of self-expressive identity and relational interaction/merging continues up the spiral staircase of consciousness evolution in the chakra model
Probably so. Considering how much we depend on the other from the beginning.
possibilities of activity and interaction
Like this.
kj, it sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you. Maybe it will let you exercise mental and emotional muscles you didn't know you had!
Again! The Aries muscle.:-)
"It also might have something to do with the intensity of the visceral battle over commodities. In the Middle East, for example, I take it back to the temples and the money lenders as the blood/lust battle continues. The contol of the purse has led to the gouging and penetrating of bodies."
Conceptually, war over material resources could be regarded as an out-of-balance system, where the first level of energies ruled by Mars is allowed to reject, overrule, or distort the second level of energies ruled by Mercury. Assertion becomes wasteful aggression in exceeding its optimal sphere of action.
The first level of consciousness can't alone find long-term, sustainable solutions for society, which is a higher construct than the individual. Solutions require higher vantage points from which to view the problem domain, and to guide the energies residing within the problem domain. The problems of each domain are best resolved through the influx of higher intelligence based on the broader perspectives of domains above it.
"It is generally associated with the Moon and the South Node, and it contains a specific subchakra ruled by the North Node."
"You mentioned this before and I can't get enough of the idea."
Did you have a specific question about it? I've not deeply explored the energy body's affinities for planets and cosmic energies, although I've on occasion felt them with respect to strong transiting planetary aspects.
I think there could be advanced knowledge of these things out there, probably in oral traditions. The traditions probably have a different emphasis than modern eyes will notice. Maybe we could use more interdisciplinary thinkers.
I've not deeply explored the energy body's affinities for planets and cosmic energies, although I've on occasion felt them with respect to strong transiting planetary aspects.
Interested in that and anything on the nodes.
The first level of consciousness can't alone find long-term, sustainable solutions for society, which is a higher construct than the individual. Solutions require higher vantage points from which to view the problem domain, and to guide the energies residing within the problem domain.
How much do you think this is operating and how can we consciously influence this?
The knowledge is there but seems to be vestigial at the moment, as you suggest.
So is here a time factor involved as to when these centers will open and give more?
Maybe we could use more interdisciplinary thinkers.
And maybe that's what we're all doing here.
kj wrote: "Re: your Asian man... I was thinking, we (the next generations) carry the code "lines" of our ancestors, but do we pass the lines backward? If we do, could the lines in his face be the result of his elasticity? His picking up and carrying the lines of his present family?
"Talk about going backward and forward in time!"
You need no paper,
no photo, no recording,
to prove the truth of yesterday.
The map of your face remembers
the time of my birth;
and when I first laughed at your smile;
and how I leaped
to your arms
before I could speak;
and your joy when I touched
the morning stubble on your cheek,
then turned away,
gesturing the sign, dirty,
my small fingers waving
under my chin.
The mirror of your eyes
remind me to myself.
Without speech, they recall
how you held me up before
the living room mirror,
to let me see
us as we were.
You named to me
the people who loved me.
We looked at each other
reflected by morning light,
and you murmured to us,
Remember.
Someday, I will embrace
all that I have seen
and trace, like the sun,
with fingers of light,
the curving face of time--
see how all of the places
we knew have been
but shared memories all along.
I will look for you in memory,
where you too can find me.
We will laugh over
what we remembered
and what we forgot,
and then,
make new memories,
to grow up in again,
to live in again,
for ever.
tears spilling over at such beauty, this is yours, you, Kadimiros? What a gift.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I wrote it in response to kj's thoughts. It is longer than the short answer of "yes", but makes for better reading.
I might still tinker with it slightly, but it seemed ready enough to go.
Kad - that is so beautiful, like tseka, it brings tears to my eyes . . . thank you so much for sharing this with us.
You're welcome! And thanks to kj for asking the question.
I wonder where the source of this spontaneous poetic expression is. Is it love of the person asking? Love of the self? Awe of life? Humility mixed with pride in the self?
I know longing is a big part of it. Longing for what?
It's such an amazing event and somewhere in our complicated chip we are wired for this for good reason. Why do some make use of it?
Our relationship with language is so intense.
I don't know, but love simply springs from Kad's poem. It is so intense, it feels like one of Joe's eggs to hold. Fragile, beautiful, and as if it came from life itself. Which of course, it did.
That is beautiful kj.
We're lucky.
Kadimiros.
Can I quote part of your poem in an upcoming post?
Wow...Thank you all again for the nice responses. And here I thought I rushed it.
kj wrote: "If memory serves, it was you Kad, who encouraged questions."
I did? Oh. Well, you ran with it, so there! >:-(
I thought about your question in between fielding phone calls from clients and trying to get projects out the door. I thought, Well, I could just say "yes", or I could blather about causality and, boy, won't that get tedious fast. Even for me. ;-)
Sometimes talk doesn't have enough life, you know? Ideas leave us relatively untouched, until we connect them with images and feelings of our own.
I thought, I bet there are a lot of ways we could explore this. So, for you, a poem in response. This is just one way, one poem out many possible poems, and I didn't touch on everything.
It's an interesting process, isn't it? Just to jot down the first words, not knowing exactly where it's going to lead, how it's going to end, or sometimes what you want to say.
The first action is a leap of faith. Faith is a journey's first step. This is obviously something you can do well, despite any worries, one of the gifts you carry and demonstrate for other people.
Once you start doing, you know, in perfect faith, you reel in more feelings, images and words. Then you organize them until you're done.
Maybe all endeavors are like that. I've noticed that people can think about something forever -- the time required to complete a project tends to expand to take up all of the time we allocate -- but getting something, anything, down on paper gets the ball rolling.
But maybe there's more to what you were asking. I was going to ask, What intrigued you when you asked your question? Maybe you could take in the things that stand out for you, put them into creative writing to explore them and give them a home in this universe.
"Can I quote part of your poem in an upcoming post?"
Gee....Sure, go ahead.
I'll come back at some point to your last question, about accessing information stored at different levels of consciousness. Have to get my head in the right state, ha, to make any sense. ;-)
Have to get my head in the right state, ha, to make any sense. ;-)
HA! You think you make sense?
I DO like you nonetheless.
love this place and all of you.
Likewise kj. All of yous.
There seems to be a certain attitude of reverance when a poem is recited. Silence is part of the ritual. Expectation.
Speeches and theatrical recitations are like this too, and they often try to incorporate poetic elements.
The experience seems to be one of elevation in theory.
I bet that if the same words are uttered outside of the official context of poetry it might have a different effect.
The River runs to the sea
Said by a scientist this would be unemotional.
Said in by a poet and all kinds of feelings would be evoked.
"HA! You think you make sense?"
I said I would have to -- I didn't say that sense had been my real aim before. :-) Might take a while, though, all people are getting now when they dial Neptune are burbly noises. Oh, maybe it doesn't matter. Nobody can tell the difference -- they only think they can.
all people are getting now when they dial Neptune are burbly noises. Oh, maybe it doesn't matter. Nobody can tell the difference -- they only think they can.
Huh?
You're talking to a Mercury/Neptune square. I don't even think I can.
"Burbles" d;-)
Yes, "a burble for your thoughts" seems to be the currency exchange rate up there.
Snow berries. The varieties are infinite. They must have power.
Good sign, kj. The berries are connecting us. They really do have power.
"The River runs to the sea
Said by a scientist this would be unemotional.
Said in by a poet and all kinds of feelings would be evoked."
Poetry is evocative in a way that rational thought alone isn't. Partly, it's in the interaction between the denotative and the connotative. The rich mental associations produced by poetic metaphors such as "all rivers run to the sea" allow language to elicit changes in consciousness. Hearers are challenged to connect through their own experience. To linear patterns of thought, love and art are altered states.
I read that Aramaic was like that. Some say that much of the implications and impact of statements made by the historical Jesus have been lost or distorted by way of translation through more linear languages such as ancient Greek.
And then there is the use of breath that often accompanies evocative use of language. Awareness of breath is powerful, some say, even apart from the use of sound and mantra.
The meaning rides on the rhythms of language and deeper biological rhythms. If I try to write verse, I become very aware of the rhythm of language, and from there I move into progressively deeper states of listening.
To linear patterns of thought, love and art are altered states.
But they mingle and one probably can't exist without the other.
The meaning rides on the rhythms of language and deeper biological rhythms. If I try to write verse, I become very aware of the rhythm of language, and from there I move into progressively deeper states of listening.
I've always thought rhythm was primary. I think it is the basis of our ability to function in an overwhelming universe.
The rhythms are everywhere and the provide balance and continuity. Stability. They are ancient, probably unchanging.
Music now in our society has strayed so far from this and I've often connected it to the industrial revolution. As it became big business, like health. I search for clues as to why we've disconnected. And of course, will we reconnect?
We're OK, really, since the rhythms continue somewhere despite our clumsy intervention.
"For me the struggle with faith begins after the first action, the leap. After the landing and the first steps into the new territory, the fear "what in god's green earth have I done" appears."
Yeah, just relax the breath and take one step at a time. If fear is there, don't overreact to it. Maybe pretend that it's a younger part of you that's afraid, and wants you to comfort and soothe it, which you can do. Humor's good for fears; you can tell it a funny story, like:
I thought I'd have fun. I thought I'd go run. I thought, "For god's sake, what have I done?" "The woods are lovely, dark and deep"--but long shadows now begin to creep. And hark! What is that rustic sound I hear? Could it be lion, or tiger or bear???
That reminds me. I had a dream once about a shaman standing outside a cave. He held up a blank book and a piece of charcoal. He said, "You must draw your fears so clearly that you never see them again." I don't think he meant brood on them, but maybe putting things wanting attention down onto paper takes them out of cycling thoughts, affords us some distance. They might change character as one does it. Art can give us a different perspective. Do you happen to know anything about art therapy? I believe we can use art to process feelings and as a transformative act.
"The rhythms are everywhere and the provide balance and continuity. Stability. They are ancient, probably unchanging.
Music now in our society has strayed so far from this and I've often connected it to the industrial revolution. As it became big business, like health. I search for clues as to why we've disconnected. And of course, will we reconnect?"
I think your intuition is right on that: We will hear signs of reconnection in music first, because it has such a close relationship with our feelings.
Art reflects experience. If experience is unclarified, dissonant in its rhythms and fractured in its incorporation into consciousness, then so will be the art. Our centers of feeling when dissonant in their vibrations lose the ability to communicate to each other, to pass information between levels. If that is what we choose to emote, then that will be our experience and our art.
In recent times, the expressive faculties have been disconnected from inspiration, as the former are turned to the service and imitation of chaotic and distorted signals. From industry, early schools of psychology, and so on, there has been a stingier view on nature and the individual, a general loss of expansive vision. It's all below the level of heart energy. Fortunately, this is changing.
Our society weighs itself down with narrow visions of the self, wraps itself in images of weakness or in denials of weakness, and then puts those on pedestals to be admired. Too many leaders and cultural heros do not empower, by example or otherwise.
Many people don't stretch their personalities. Many don't know to try. Or, they don't know the questions to ask, if they did. Clear results begin with clear energy. It begins with asking the right questions, and then that intentional charged focus attracts inspiration.
I've always thought it odd that we have had institutions we call "art schools", where tuition costs many thousands of dollars, that devote nothing to the subject of creativity and its wellsprings. Many courses teach craft, but little on inviting inspiration herself, let alone how to converse with her when she does come.
Thinking can prepare the ground, but we have to stop staring at problems in ways that just attract more of the same. We can say to the source of inspiration in ourselves, Show me what I need to know. And then act on the initial connection, keeping the energy flowing through. The practice of art combines feeling and action; when the two move nearly as one, we feel what people call "flow".
We left traditional structures behind, and are struggling amidst the cacophony of competing voices to hear anew the deep rhythms of nature. When old structures, simpler forms of order, are outgrown, there's destabilization, a loosening of the old, before restabilization at a new level. This describes growth in each person's mental patterns as well as in society; the character of the latter depending on the former. I think we are just beginning to understand energy, the mysteries of time/space, and ourselves as beings of dynamically flowing energy. This is, of course, the new view entering.
"...two of my artist buddies, who didn't know each other, had studied with Shaun McNiff, who is sort of the go-to-guy around art therapy."
Ah, thanks. See, I know nothing about art therapy. I'll have to look up that guy's work. :-)
"There is an understanding of what you're saying and doing, all these things I've "forgotten" to do in the last four-five years."
We all forget things when we go off adventures out there, and then we remind ourselves and each other when we regroup. Doesn't the detour enrich your perspective in the end?
"Also, are you familiar (I'm sure you are) with active imagination?"
Nah, not familiar with the term. :-) Some of what I say is probably influenced by my attempts when young to integrate levels of the psyche. Admittedly, that probably gives me a radical perspective. A lot of times, I just go forward on the confidence that inner connection gives me. Most of my jobs, I figure things out as I go along. I joke that I just pretend that I know what I'm doing, and then somehow, it happens that I usually do.
just relax the breath and take one step at a time. If fear is there, don't overreact to it. Maybe pretend that it's a younger part of you that's afraid, and wants you to comfort and soothe it, which you can do.
Good technique. Going to try it.
In recent times, the expressive faculties have been disconnected from inspiration, as the former are turned to the service and imitation of chaotic and distorted signals
Music has always imitated sounds in the environment. So this makes sense. It used to be the sounds of nature, but this cacophony is actually modern nature. I agree that the stretch is coming as we find new sources of inspiration.
Our society weighs itself down with narrow visions of the self, wraps itself in images of weakness or in denials of weakness, and then puts those on pedestals to be admired. Too many leaders and cultural heros do not empower, by example or otherwise.
This has been my main interest. We must take it upon ourselves to empower and learn to do it with one another.
Our icons are only a symbol of the collective development. The first step would be for the group to see their condition as reflected in the leadership. I think that is happening right now in this country a little more than usual. It IS rather obvious.
the cacophony of competing voices
You got that one exactly right. We must one day stop perceiving the other's expression as a threat. As if others are choking us.
think we are just beginning to understand energy, the mysteries of time/space, and ourselves as beings of dynamically flowing energy. This is, of course, the new view entering.
It's happening. The change in physics is the portent as far as society goes. My theory is that as we start to really know the black void beyond us in space, our fear will diminish and we won't necessarily perceive a force that has omnipotent destructive power over us. I think this has been behind all of man's blood sacrifice.
Just familiarity will bring us closer and give us recognition of our own power. Help us realize we are players too.
I joke that I just pretend that I know what I'm doing, and then somehow, it happens that I usually do.
Do it all the time. Works perfectly!
"My theory is that as we start to really know the black void beyond us in space, our fear will diminish and we won't necessarily perceive a force that has omnipotent destructive power over us. I think this has been behind all of man's blood sacrifice."
That's perfect! Maybe if we allow the void we feel inside instead of running or taking on an angry posture to hide the weakness, then we will discover it filling with the energy and strength we need.
kj! You're deep too. Or else you wouldn't follow this. You pick and choose what you want to respond to and do it beautifully. Kad and I try to cover EVERYTHING!
And we will.
Maybe if we allow the void we feel inside instead of running or taking on an angry posture to hide the weakness, then we will discover it filling with the energy and strength we need.
That's my view.
I think our reserves of energy and strength are located there and maybe the time has come to draw on them somewhat. The study of dark matter and dark energy are indicating this move.
"god the two of you get so deep. i might need to eat before attemtping to respond! or maybe just read and enjoy. f;-)"
Oh, please do respond. It's nice to have yet another voice.
Besides, you've been showing us how to access information from other levels of consciousness. It's so much better than if I tried to explain my thinking.
"The study of dark matter and dark energy are indicating this move."
And zero-point energy!
"And yes do, he's written a book or two. Interesting guy."
I have a book titled Painting From The Source, by Aviva Gold. On the back cover, it goes, "As children, all of us lived and painted intuitively. And as adults we can re-create the boundless joy of unselfconscious art by setting aside intellectual critique and self-doubt and reconnecting with the source. Remember standing at an easel as a child and painting in a trancelike state of wonder? Somewhere along the way this freedom gets trimmed out of us, and we are either categorized as artists or not."
It's like, if your painting starts going off the edge of the paper, just add another piece of paper to the side and keep going. Forget arbitrary boundaries.
It's so much better than if I tried to explain my thinking.
Actually kj does that! She picks out essentials.
And as adults we can re-create the boundless joy of unselfconscious art by setting aside intellectual critique and self-doubt and reconnecting with the source.
No doubt.
HA HA!!!no doubt
The big problem is that we know not where that critical voice is coming from. It's suspect. Certainly moreso that the spontaneous act.
Mine came from my parents.
Sometimes we may not ever know, or it isn't always worth the effort to find out where the repeating loop came from. But we may not need to know the original. We just need to stop playing it in the present. We can just say, Oh, ha, there's that critical voice again!
I think I'll put that voice to music! A lovely light ditty!
LOL! That's the ticket. :-)
I'm delerious! Finally figured it out!
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