Thursday, September 28, 2006

An Astrological Event

A wise friend of mine, a Sagittarius, related the most wonderful news to me tonight. She had been struggling in one of the most difficult passages of her life, trying to end an eight year relationship that had been suffocating her. Uranus is the planet of liberation, and sure enough, two exact transits symbolized the right time. Uranus square her Sun, and Saturn conjunct her Uranus on the Ascendant. I am always thrilled, my love renewed, when I see astrology in action like this.
I'm reposting the thread on the rising sign so as to contemplate this important point further
.
Horizons
As many Raging Universe readers know, I am of the opinion that the nodes of the moon are the most important part of the astrological chart. I've been doing research on these for a number of years and I'm looking forward to sharing my information with you as this fascinating discussion continues.
Second in importance, if not equal, is the point of the birth chart known as the Ascendant, or the rising sign. It's based on the exact birth time. When you look up in the sky there is a projected ring of zodiac signs based on original constellations. The sign exactly on the horizon at the moment of birth is the rising sign. It is precise and the defining factor in the individuality, influencing behavior often much more than the Sun sign. I see it as a gigantic roulette wheel. We jump in and take our chances as the wheel keeps spinning. It's just as it says...our future, what we are becoming, what is rising.
At birth, this sign is the entrance. The portal. And it is the doorway to every experience in our lives from then on. It filters what comes in and what we project. It describes our persona, the role we play, our mask of identity, and how all others see us. The characteristics of the sign are what serve us best as we survive and negotiate our paths through life. The point of greatest potential.
The odd thing about the Ascendant is that it precedes the individual. We are behind it, not in it, and we often act out traits that are not natural inner ones. This can create a lot of confusion, and this is where relationships come in. They reflect back what we are projecting and then we can see and get to know who we are, moreso as life goes on. We incarnate further and further into this role, ultimately to the point of mastery.
Because of this unique separation of inner and outer, we have the chance to mold and sculpt this element. It is malleable and responsive to the will. This, I think is one of its greatest attributes. We can create ourselves over and over in a cosmic dressing room.
Often the rising sign conflicts with other parts of our chart, but this costume is the winner as far as outer existence is concerned.
It's simple. Master the Ascendant, you master the life. It's the driver's seat. Our Ace.
As we go through the signs, we can use ourselves as examples of this. To backtrack a little, I'm going to Taurus, the sign discussed recently.
Casey and kj are Taurus Ascendants. The MO of a Taurus rising is centeredness in the self and the use of pleasurable sensory experience to survive. So no matter what crises are going around, the Taurus eventually masters the ability to find central calm and rootedness to the spot. Not jumping to every snap of the outer finger. They can choose what bone to jump for and what to ignore. They make their own decisions. And the pleasures of the senses are fundamental to relief and relaxation, be it food and drink, music, oils and scents, retreat to quiet, or even a long Zen jog. They don't have to respond to what they choose not to, no matter what others say or do. The selfish license is theirs, and is necessary to survival.
Casey is a Pisces who merges and flows, but Taurus stays firm and separate. So this is the challenge. To merge and flow and still be able to withdraw to the self at will for refreshing.
Kj is an Aries, excitable, intense, pushing forward, meeting conflict. So her challenge is to battle with life and still find rest and contentment all the way through the fray. In both cases, the ultimate winner is the contentment and satisfaction of personal desires.

72 Comments:

Blogger Neith said...

OK - going to take a few minutes to say what a great post I think this is. It always surprises me how much difference sometimes as little as a couple of minutes makes in the Rising Sign. I have pondered for years why my Scop sister who talks incessantly had a Cancer ASC with time we had on hand. Then Neo said he found an hour error on his Birth Certificate due to Daylight Savings time . . . I went back & changed her birth time by an hour . . . Gemini ASC w/Uranus on the ASC! And that would be someone who talks all the time, yes?

Many years ago in an Astrology class the instructor showed us a quick & dirty way to determine if the ASC was correct by looking at the time of birth & Sun Sign. For instance, if someone is born at noon with Sun in Aries, they will most likely have a Cancer ASC (depending on latitude . .) I've had people hand me charts to read for them with the ASC 180 degrees off, i.e., Taurus ASC instead of Scorpio. A few minutes of bemusement and checking the birth time & sun sign, and, ah ha!!

25/9/06 1:22 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Gemini ASC w/Uranus on the ASC! And that would be someone who talks all the time, yes?

Without a doubt...yes.

25/9/06 1:38 PM  
Anonymous casey said...

I never have considered the Asc. to be as important as the sun sign...this is a fresh point of view for me. Because I don't identify that much with Taurus. Who are supposed to be calm and steady and rather slow. And I'm flighty and intense and have a terrible case of "hurry up" disease.

25/9/06 1:44 PM  
Anonymous Juju said...

Can you say something about Libra ascendant? I seem to be perpetually struggling with issues of too much stuff (of all kinds -- things, ideas, projects, people needing me, dreams) -- and too little time to make headway with the things I really want to achieve. I know this is a modern problem for most people, but I seem to have worse than most. Does this relate to Libra or some conflict in my chart, or is it just some Freudian thing to do with my mother who is the same way, only much more so. Thanks for any insights....

25/9/06 1:56 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That's exactly it casey. We are not familiar with the characteristics, but develop them as we go through life. If we do our rising sign, we are more fitted to life, and other things fall into place.

Consider the precision. It gives us the exact way to deal with adversity.

Because I don't identify that much with Taurus

And that's what you project. So time will make you familiar with yourself.
Taurus isn't necessarily slow. She just always takes time for her personal pleasures. Always recharges doing exactly what she wants to do. And it's all about an inner calm that lets things swirl around without excessive threat.

Even with the Moon/Mars/Mercury/Jupiter "hurry up", the Taurus can plod along comfortably, if just in attitude.

25/9/06 2:03 PM  
Blogger jm said...

juju, there you are!

I didn't see you, and didn't calculate the chart, but now I will.

Libra asc is all about equal attention paid to the other. It's a constant struggle on this see-saw. If you get too involved with the self, the urge to go into another intervenes. It's interesting with writing which is solitary, yet is a way to enter relationship in a different way. It draws you away from people around you though, and this could be troublesome. Or people's demands can keep you from writing as much as you want.

The desire to please with Libra can be a big thing to work with. Often there is resentment, but the urge to please remains because it comes from the self. As a Libra rising, fair equitable interpersonal relationships are the Ace.

The square to the Moon in Capricorn is one problem. Trying to balance relationship demands with goal achievement.

I'll look at the chart and see the whole picture.

Also Libra is the world of the mind, so mundane could be annoying, but not to the Cap. Still, Libra needs a lot of mental exercise to the exclusion of some of the earthly details.

25/9/06 2:12 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There's so much to the ascendant. I want to go into detail as we go around the wheel of signs.

My view is that we come into our rising signs fully in midlife. It's true that often identity becomes clearer at this time and we feel the freedom to be ourselves.

No matter who we are inside, it will be filtered through the asc, and our way of responding best to the environment is through these characteristics.

For example...Do you think I would be better off hiding as a Cancer in my 4th house, entirely away from the world?

Or going dynamically into the world with my Aries rising and taking charge?

To completely different approaches.

25/9/06 2:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Maybe I shouldn't hear the answer to that!

25/9/06 2:25 PM  
Anonymous JuJu said...

I must say, I definitely perceived you in person as being out in the world in the best way, and of course as well here on the page (I mean screen). No crab-like hiding. But maybe your Cancer -- and I've usually had an easier time getting on with Cancers than Aries -- balances the qualities some Aries have of being too aggressive and too righteous. Were you more Cancer-like when younger?

25/9/06 2:40 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I swung both ways when younger, but was never really happy in hiding. Wasn't comfortable with the dynamic assertive thing either, so I would end up at a wall either way.

The more I am conscious of using my Aries energy, the more it works. I know I can't hide out anymore.

That's what the ASC is about. Conscious application. The self sculpt factor.

For example. You can look at the behavior of the Sun signs of your ASC and pick and choose what you want to emulate. So if you see a quarrelsome Libra always in bad relationships, and there are many, you can delete that part of it and develop the more cooperative side.

We express all parts of ourselves but the final filter is the ASC.

If I want to hide when I'm actually out there, I can't. I'm projecting the dynamic Aries whether I want to or not. So I work with the best expression of it.
Cancer is shy and afraid, but I can't fulfill my potential that way.

25/9/06 2:59 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Illustration:

The night I met you juju.
You walked in, I looked at you, and I pursued you directly.

The Cancer might have gotten there, with all her timidity, toe testing, is it safe?, will it hurt?, should I?, Naw, later, I just want to stay quietly in the shadow.

But the Aries won't wait for her.

25/9/06 3:13 PM  
Anonymous JuJu said...

Thanks jm, this is all so interesting. And I didn't feel at all pursued by you, which is maybe part of the balance thing. It felt like some natural connection. I felt pursued (but in a very uncomfortable way) by the hostess. And I suppose if my people pleasing instincts had been too strong I would not have broken away from her initial hug and attempt to corral me. I do know some guys with sun in Libra who are extremely attractive but a total pain in the ass in relationships, and I watch their girlfriends suffer. I do have a quarrelsome side but try to mediate it by joking, and by paying attention to where quarrels are likely to arrive and sidestepping them. But I, like you, have a strong desire to both hide and show myself, and have hung back plenty of times when I wished I were plunging in. Maybe it partly has to do with having planets in the 12th house? I've got Venus in Cancer, but I don't know if I've got anything in Aries.

25/9/06 3:29 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Fascinating indeed.

Mars in the chart is how we actively pursue our desires. Mine is 0 Libra.

Your ASC is 1 Libra.

No wonder I was so direct. No room for mistake there.


The ruler of your ASC, Venus, is in Cancer, thus the timidity. But only to a point. Probably needed to keep you out of some things. Good instincts about people.

25/9/06 4:03 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Libras are notorious for confounding relationships.

They live in the mind and have an intellectual ideal of relationship. Good one. Fair and balanced. Always relating.

Doesn't work too well in application.

25/9/06 4:17 PM  
Anonymous juJu said...

It's true, the Libras I've known have been super heady -- they talk in circles in frustrating ways, so that it is almost impossible to contradict them. P. also has Libra rising and when we do battle, it's fierce.

25/9/06 4:48 PM  
Blogger jm said...

they talk in circles in frustrating ways, so that it is almost impossible to contradict

That is precious!

When my Libra brother made us talk about Jesus for three years from every angle, it was rough!

25/9/06 4:54 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

they talk in circles in frustrating ways, so that it is almost impossible to contradict

Good God, I don't do that, do I?! Spend a good share of my life biting my tongue . . . :-)

A thought on Scorpio ASC - Scorpio is noted for transmuting & transforming themselves, and perhaps Pluto transiting over mine did the trick . . . it was certainly painful enough! :-)

mmmmm - looked briefly at juju's chart. Best example I've ever seen of "iron fist in velvet glove" w/sun in Leo conjunct Pluto & Libra Rising.

25/9/06 5:32 PM  
Anonymous JuJu said...

"iron fist in velvet glove" w/sun in Leo conjunct Pluto & Libra Rising.

Thanks, neith. That's a very flattering and beautiful way to put it. With age I've learned to control the fist a bit, but I have often shocked people -- I'm polite and seem (I guess) harmless, unless I'm pushed too far by bad treatment. Then people don't know what hit them. Sometimes my anger has shamed me, but it also has been effective. But, as I said, I think it has been tamed,a bit, with age.

25/9/06 5:43 PM  
Anonymous Juno Jones said...

Ha! Libra! My husband before the crab, referred to here as the 'gardener' was libra sun and rising. Wonderful, beautiful man, but wishy-washy doesn't half describe it. Every thought had to be balanced by a complimentary thought...he would tie himself into theoretical knots...when we were fixing up our houses in IL (I am always fixing houses, it must be my karma...)he would drag me into a room and go on for an hour about how he would fix the ceiling THIS way. Then he would go, "no,no,no" "What if we were to do it THAT way", and go on for an hour. Then he would ask me what I thought. Hell, I didn't know ANYTHING about fixing the ceiling and all thirty seven ways that he had mentioned sounded just fine, could we please JUST DO IT!!!!

Oh well, he wasn't nearly as bad as a very intense libra artist I dated. HE had to balance out every conversation by playing devil's advocate to EVERYTHING...Great artist, hope he's doing well and has figured out why girls run screaming.....

25/9/06 6:15 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

he would drag me into a room and go on for an hour about how he would fix the ceiling THIS way. Then he would go, "no,no,no" "What if we were to do it THAT way", and go on for an hour.

That sounds like my Pisces boss & his S/O! Her moon is in Libra & his in Gemini, and listening to them make decisions about the decorative elements in the houses we build is enough to drive me nutz!! Oddly enough, both her son & I are Libras - his birthday is today & mine is at the very end of Libra, and we're both decisive people. He has Cancer ASC & mine, as you know, is Scorpio. Now my Cancer dad has Libra ASC & moon and my Aries calls him "Mr. Not now, NOW" - talk about driving someone crazy . . . :-)

25/9/06 7:23 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

With age I've learned to control the fist a bit, but I have often shocked people -- I'm polite and seem (I guess) harmless, unless I'm pushed too far by bad treatment.

ha, ha, ha, ha!!!! That Sun/Pluto combo is a doozy! Now your Mars in Pisces is nicely trined by Saturn which says to me you naturally know just how much energy to expend getting some physical task accomplished. When it comes to asserting yourself with people, then it may not be so smooth. Mars in Pisces is very fluid & intuitive too.

25/9/06 7:33 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

juju said: but I have often shocked people -- I'm polite and seem (I guess) harmless, unless I'm pushed too far by bad treatment.

Same here, juju. Just ask the nasty neighbors who thought I was too polite and harmless to protest their verbal abuse, until they pushed me too far and ended up with a civil rights complaint lodged against them. They left me alone after that, and moved out shortly thereafter.

In fact, the camel's back broke just as Jupiter entered Scorpio last October 25th... interesting!

25/9/06 7:56 PM  
Blogger jm said...

camel's back broke just as Jupiter entered Scorpio last October 25th... interesting!

Joe!! An astrologer! I wonder if the camel will recover when Jupiter leaves in November.

25/9/06 8:51 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

hey jm - how's Saturn treating you these days? I sure noticed the weight increasing when it was creeping up to forming an exact conjunction with my Saturn. Please remember to breathe!!! :-)

26/9/06 11:07 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Breathing is a good idea, neith!

The Saturn is incredible this time round. I am seeing all the problems through the years and they've become almost tangible, so I feel like I have a better grip on them, and more chance of getting my ego developed...the main part.

Last night,especially. I had one of those moments with myself.

Fascinating that you should bring this up today today!

26/9/06 1:43 PM  
Blogger kj said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

27/9/06 5:45 AM  
Blogger kj said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

27/9/06 5:54 AM  
Blogger kj said...

An hour's worth of posts from me, about me. You'd think I'd be embarrassed! LOL!

27/9/06 6:41 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"We are just right. @;-)"

:-) I feel more comfortable about having Pisces rising after jm explained that there happens to be a lot of Aries in my first house.

27/9/06 9:27 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I mean, really. THAT'S materialist, but you know, right now, I don't care."

Well, if you take good care of yourself, you'll be better at the other stuff, too, and good for people. You accept the need for comfort and nourishment, and that energy can be a balm to people.

A teaching I've heard is, The more grounded you can be, the higher you can go. The general idea is that the bigger challenge is to bring the high energy here, instead of flying away to find it.

Thinking about what you said, I think the principle can also apply to care of the personal self. Take care of earthy needs and concerns, and the mind will relax and be freer:

As the Earth is to my body, the spacious sky, which encircles and embraces the Earth, is to my creative higher mind. As my physical body with its needs feels safe and taken care of, rooted snugly and centered in space/time, my mind is freed to explore wider spheres of activity.

27/9/06 9:44 AM  
Blogger kj said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

27/9/06 6:04 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Cool. :-) Feel free. It comes from some things you were saying. I was thinking about what you said about the luxury of thin skin and new skin, and being close to the earth. It doesn't sound related, right? But it has something to do with the idea of going barefoot, or lying on the ground and feeling the earth supporting the body, while the sky slowly turns overhead.

27/9/06 8:35 PM  
Blogger jm said...

And not only the clothes, but (to use warrior words) the armor we wear?

Perfect description.

Thinking about what you said, I think the principle can also apply to care of the personal self. Take care of earthy needs and concerns, and the mind will relax and be freer:

The relaxed mind is the main thing with Taurus so she can release herself in the earthly sensations. This is survival. Then the Aries can ago back into battle less nervous.

Taurus is strong, stable, and can endure anything. Good for the Cancer Moon too when she gets weepy.

28/9/06 4:41 AM  
Anonymous JuJu said...

time seems to be contracting, circling, moving in new ways on this post. . . I've been thinking about time, and the way things seem to be accelerating. Its supposed to be a part of getting older, but P. thinks time is accelerating for everyone these days, and that in different periods time speeds up or slows down (the renaissance being an example of when people had more time). Scientists have also discovered something called "dark energy" which is different from dark matter, and is supposed to be causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate. I've been reading a (clunky) novel by a psychoanalyst and he says the unconscious thinks in timeless ways, and at the same time it remains in touch with life's stages and life's structure But many people have expelled their unconscious, they have no time for it, they are out of touch with it, or they project it all into the material world, and by abandoning it, it abandons them. I think kj's sitting for 2 and 1/2 hours at dawn in a beautiful space is a way of staying in touch with the unconscious. And keeping in touch with the unconscious is a way of keeping in touch with the other in ourselves.
(sorry if this is too convoluted. . .)

28/9/06 9:56 AM  
Anonymous JuJu said...

And kj, I didn't mean all Aries are righteous. My mother is a very righteous Aries however, which may have influenced my opinion just a bit...

And yes, I write. Though I have many many friends who do not call themselves writers but who write muche better than I do...

28/9/06 9:58 AM  
Anonymous JuJu said...

"A teaching I've heard is, The more grounded you can be, the higher you can go. The general idea is that the bigger challenge is to bring the high energy here, instead of flying away to find it.

Thinking about what you said, I think the principle can also apply to care of the personal self. Take care of earthy needs and concerns, and the mind will relax and be freer"


The same psychoanalyst speaks of the concept of "descendence" as opposed to "transcendence." A participation in the ordinary, the quotidian as sacred.

28/9/06 10:06 AM  
Blogger jm said...

"dark energy" which is different from dark matter, and is supposed to be causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate.

Really interesting juju. A lot to respond to. I've been following the scientists on this and am interested in the dark matter and energy. There is still such a fear of darkness and and yet it holds so much promise because of this. The mystery. The infinity. The possibility. Maybe we need to learn a way to sense the darkness. See in the dark.

the unconscious thinks in timeless ways, and at the same time it remains in touch with life's stages and life's structure But many people have expelled their unconscious, they have no time for it, they are out of touch with it, or they project it all into the material world, and by abandoning it, it abandons them.

The timelessness is the great attribute, I think. I don't think people have expelled it, only ignored it with great effort.

Sometimes I think that the mantra of our society, "I'm so busy", is an attempt to do this. I've never seen the value in being too busy and perceiving life as having not enough time. Time is artificial yet we've become imprisoned by this creation to the extent that the vastness, timelessness, snd the darkness are terrifiying. I guess they always have been.

I was thinking that with quantum physics and dark energy, we might be evolving as a whole to an incorporation of this part.

I think the subconscious is still operating but by ignoring it people are just living in a smaller, flatter, more limited dimension and shortchanging themselves.

People think that if they can see consciously what's there, they are safe, but I think it might be the other way around.

28/9/06 1:19 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

But many people have expelled their unconscious, they have no time for it, they are out of touch with it, or they project it all into the material world, and by abandoning it, it abandons them.

After thinking about this, I realized I see this all the time in people . . . kinda scary. As creative folk, we have discussed being in the creative "zone" where we loose track of "time", and it strikes me there may be a connection between lack of connection w/our unconscious and being forced to stay in linear time. Dang convoluted discussions . . . :-) I know I depend on my unconscious to process info for me all the time - and very good at it, it is!

28/9/06 2:20 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Some of the most liberating moments for me are when I get immersed in creativity and lose track of time.

I've always kepts clocks at a minimun around me and used to be even freer from time, although I can tell by the light and feel. I find that the more aware I am of it, the less I seem to have. Or it's moving ahead of me, taunting, and making me feel my limitaion.

I think that's why people get into altered states.
I can see the value of a clock, but I can't figure out the bondage the world is in.
Structure is always desired but society has left so little breathing room.

I'm always amused at the line, "I don't have enough time". Time isn't in our possession and it's constant, I thought. How do you measure it, really? We're compelled to fractionalize it and try to control it. And people are always waiting for things to be over. Looking at the clock trying to escape.

forced to stay in linear time.

Where does this force come from?

28/9/06 2:41 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I wonder what this Saturn/Neptune opposition is really doing. I've noticed a breakdown in forward motion lately.

Does anyone else sense a sort of standstill in time?

28/9/06 2:43 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Yeah, I definitely notice that time seems stretched out. And yet time-clock punch-clock chock-a-block days just fly by.

28/9/06 4:06 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I wonder what this Saturn/Neptune opposition is really doing. I've noticed a breakdown in forward motion lately."

How weird, I was just commenting on Saturn/Neptune in the Heart thread.

A snip of verse from an old poem came back to mind today:

A ghost in my brain that lives on old strife.
A watch on my wrist to measure my life.


It was part of a longer block of verse. The countering block included countering statements.

Someone knocking loud, loved ones call.
Doors open now where once was blank wall.


"Does anyone else sense a sort of standstill in time?"

Yes. I suppose that means new directions are becoming possible for those who can feel that.

28/9/06 6:32 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

I've thought that when some people mentally uncramp themselves and expand enough to feel the vastness beyond Saturn's domain (normal subsaturn time/space; familiar feelings, thoughts and emotions), they have something like the instinctive reaction to "falling dreams". It's a physical survival instinct kicking in--nothing to hold onto. Some won't be ready; others learn to relax and get past that.

After that, though, is a related fear from disorientation and not knowing how to navigate or propel oneself. One may intuit that there are, have been, larger unknown forces carrying one along to who knows where, and that can be scary to some.

Broad perspectives and definite purpose help to minimize anxiety.

28/9/06 7:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

you amaze me with your grasp of astrology, Kadimiros. I'll be back in a sec.

28/9/06 10:15 PM  
Blogger jm said...

A watch on my wrist to measure my life.

Doors open now where once was blank wall.

I love these lines.

The concept of a door appearing where there wasn't one is a favorite and is part of so many stories and myths. The innate search for new dimensions.

Neptune blinds the usual visual pathways and opens up alternative ones. This is like the door appearing.

I've thought that when some people mentally uncramp themselves and expand enough to feel the vastness beyond Saturn's domain (normal subsaturn time/space; familiar feelings, thoughts and emotions), they have something like the instinctive reaction to "falling dreams".

I think this exactly it. And there is a temporary blindness to the current structure. A sort of no man's land until the vision adjusts. Babies experience this when they first emerge. The solution supposedly is to grab them by the wrist.

Yes. The sudden awareness of propulsion by unknowns can be scary to them, but these are the forces they need at that moment. so there must be a mixture of fear and security in this recognition.

Broad perspectives and definite purpose help to minimize anxiety.

And how. I have always cherished my ability to see this way. There are places I sit in my home and look out at a view that invariably reminds me and I can physically feel the sensation wrap me and warm me. Confidence in life.

28/9/06 10:41 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is what was so alien to me when we first met and I was following the political game. The lack of broad perspective was so unnatural to me. I still don't know exactly why I traveled this route, but it certainly is a relief to have come to the crossroads and chosen another.

28/9/06 10:44 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I suppose that means new directions are becoming possible for those who can feel that.

That's it. Neptune is stopping the linear progression hence the perceived standstill. Without the foot automatically going to the predicted next place, the world of possibility opens up. My new direction is here in a very real way. I think it might be newer than I know.

28/9/06 11:03 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"you amaze me with your grasp of astrology"

Oh, it wasn't a biggie. I took a nap before dinner, had a dream about a haunted dysfunctional family, woke up. The dream reminded me of the stanzas about time and breaking free of the past. It bothered me a little, so I looked at the astrology program, and it showed the Saturn/Neptune/Jupiter configuration. I thought maybe they were all related in some way, and I went on to speculate.

I looked up the Saturn-Neptune opposition's delineation, and it said something about projected fear of the world being spooky and dangerous and conspiratorial, among other things. Must be in the air. I wonder how that will affect children born in this time period. I read that the aspect happens every 35 years, the last time in 1971.

But I think there is probably a more specific, faster trigger for my feelings. Why else would I notice it today? Maybe the transiting Moon and Pluto hovering over my natal MC today. Maybe I'm staring down an old ghost. Plus, there's been this weird thing in the background with the transiting Neptune and Jupiter to natal Jupiter and Neptune.

28/9/06 11:25 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"This is what was so alien to me when we first met and I was following the political game. The lack of broad perspective was so unnatural to me."

Haha....The political discussion boards are a trip. I looked at the astro ones, and I think I was a little disappointed to find more heat than light. Oh, well! :-)

28/9/06 11:42 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"That's it. Neptune is stopping the linear progression hence the perceived standstill."

Yeah, I like that idea. Inneresting. Not to get scared, but to move forward into a whole new sphere.

Maybe certain aspects are like doors. Energies strong and balanced like pivots.

28/9/06 11:47 PM  
Blogger jm said...

So what was this family in the dream?

The Pluto station on your MC is the background of it all. It's also opposite my Venus which is exactly conjunct your nadir. How 'bout that? Glad you brought this up.

My Venus there is an emotional comfort with you, and an ease you have in sharing your inner self with me since you know I will find it pleasurable. No doubt about this.

This is so interesting that you brought this up. Pluto is busy doing a thing to us. My Moon/Jup conjuncts your MC so the journey of Sagittarius is magnified by me. Pluto there taking you to new dimensions never to return. It will be there till the beginning of Nov.

With Sagittarius it's how belief and philosophy affect your goal achievement, and I imagine Pluto is illuminating your power of belief and how it will affect your future. Our own prophesies.
And TODAY, the Moon in in sagittarius right there. The positive attitude of Jupiter is your main attribute in the world and now is the time to perfect it. I call us cosmic cheerleaders, and I've given us a moniker:

Moon joops.

The MC is what we admire and aspire to, so a boss philosopher, spiritual counselor is part of your image in the world and what you want to be recognized for. The time has come. You are advanced so a lot of people seem to miss it, but they don't on the deeper levels. you have to send it out anyway, even if they don't know what's happening to them or how to respond.

Sag is the bridge from the mundane to the metaphysical. The pontiff. The guy who blesses everyone. And also holds the power as sort of a lightning rod. You are doing well.

The Saturn/Jupiter now is on your nodes and Moon. Saturn on the North, Neptune on the South in Aquarius square Jupiter, and the ego/group thing is strong. Saturn on the North favors ego expression at the moment. Jupiter today is exactly square the nodes.

Neptune is on the Aquarius rerouting the group thing. New directions there.

28/9/06 11:57 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Neptune is exactly on your South dissolving something there.

I'm getting the opposition on my Saturn in Leo in the 5th. Same thing.

29/9/06 12:01 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Not to get scared, but to move forward into a whole new sphere.

Or to not get paralyzed by the fear. The fear should make it more exciting and give courage. Fear serves a great purpose when used right. When we dance with it. nothing too romantic of course. Maybe a jitterbug.

Yes. I think transits are just like doors. They redirect and provide passage.

29/9/06 12:08 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I wonder if the dysfunctional family is Neptune dissolving some old group habit. Redirecting to healthier groups.

29/9/06 12:16 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I'm sitting here amazed at how you directed me to the Pluto transit hitting us.
You probably don't know how good you are.

29/9/06 12:23 AM  
Blogger jm said...

The other part is.....

My Midheaven is 12 degrees Capricorn. Your Venus is 13. So YOUR Venus likes my public self.

Interesting, the Venus contacts at the opposite poles.

29/9/06 5:14 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The same psychoanalyst speaks of the concept of 'descendence' as opposed to 'transcendence.' A participation in the ordinary, the quotidian as sacred."

That is really interesting. I didn't realize the psych field had special terms for these things. I'm going to do some research into that.

29/9/06 8:11 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"So what was this family in the dream?"

Oh, it was quick and odd, a dream wherein I was only an observer rather than a direct participant.

Something about a young woman and a white dress. I think she was going on a date. But there was a problem with the mother, who was haunted by something from the past. I don't know what her deal was. She had a pair of scissors. The father tried to manage the mother, and she snipped the cuff of his jacket. Well, at least she didn't snip the dress.

It must be something about emotional life getting ready to venture into new areas, leaving the old behind.

"My Moon/Jup conjuncts your MC so the journey of Sagittarius is magnified by me. Pluto there taking you to new dimensions never to return."

Yes, magnified. Ahm ready! ::punches air with upraised fists::

"Moon joops."

LOL!

"The MC is what we admire and aspire to, so a boss philosopher, spiritual counselor is part of your image in the world and what you want to be recognized for."

Hmm, contributing something spiritual to the world, maybe through the workplace, would feel rewarding.

"you have to send it out anyway, even if they don't know what's happening to them or how to respond."

Wow, thank you for the wonderful reading. The whole thing does feel supportive.

Hmm. Maybe I should network with like-minded professionals on this.

"These sites are hideous. But you say it so nicely."

Yeah, I try to keep my inner goat rage under control, you know how Mars in Capricorn is! Just kidding. :-D

Someone suggested that I visit that one. I'm not sure I got a chance to say anything meaningful at some of the sites I've visited, but it was interesting to see how things ran.

I'm used to being more intuitive in a gestalt way. Or, if there's an issue of fact at hand, I can analyze. Either way, I wouldn't be on the same wavelengths as any regulars with contracted vision. The spell of self-hypnosis. Such a wounded powerlessness some folks have.

Really, what are a bunch of people incoherently venting their angst going to do about things? To smile at a child can be a far greater act than going to a street protest these days.

Politicians too are carried along by forces greater than they, so while I skim the headlines, I don't really care to delve into their personalities to predict events the way some astrologers do. People who are aware have more of a say in their own fates.

I remember I had a little fun writing posts to soften the anxiety about the Supreme Court and the bird flu hysteria. Oh, and the Diebold will steal the Virginia governorship thing (it didn't). I think I stopped reading around when someone wrote about a post-tribulation time traveler. A little detective work on the Internet reveals hoaxes easily enough.

I've tried a few debate boards before. Some people really like the battle, and sometimes I did, too. I worried less about offending bitter sensibilities. But I'd feel the stronger reactions to what I wrote, before I went on-line to read them, and it could get toxic.

People have such death grips on their beliefs, it's a wonder there's any life left in them. Or, maybe they're just propped up to look alive, like ventriloquists' dummies projecting the angry voice of God the judge waving a carrot and a stick, or like iron clad tradition holding up shackles, clink clink clunk clunk. Not exactly persuasive. Well, not to me, anyway. Not into that. :-)

I was surprised one time to sense that one debater had graciously conceded. I had worked hard on my responses. But I went on-line and it was true, he'd backed down. He said he wanted to provoke more intelligent debate than the typical fare, and I had given it to him.

That all was like another life.

"My Midheaven is 12 degrees Capricorn. Your Venus is 13. So YOUR Venus likes my public self."

Hmm! Very interesting. I haven't gotten into comparing two charts together like that.

29/9/06 8:39 AM  
Blogger Neith said...

(I love trying to follow JM and Kad's conversations!)

ha,ha,ha, ha!! Thanks for saying that . . . thought I was the only one . . . :-)

29/9/06 12:08 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Haha...Hope it's not too convoluted. Sometimes I come across a file I wrote years ago, and I think, "Gee, did I really say that? I gotta remember that. Where did that person go, anyway?"

29/9/06 1:16 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I imagine the pottery thanks me, too. ;-)"

It had better! If it knows what's good for it.

"Thank you for saying that "out loud."

You're welcome. I believe it's true. People don't recognize the tremendous good in simple acts like that. They hold the world together.

29/9/06 1:25 PM  
Blogger kj said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

29/9/06 1:33 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Kadimiros, your long 8:39 post said it all. It is so good. I don't know where to begin, bit I will.

29/9/06 2:16 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Okay, I'll look forward to feedback! :-) I have to dash off to a client's get together this evening, at a little French restaurant in the East Village. Some kind of surprise party celebration. Not sure what time I'll get back. Sigh.

29/9/06 2:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Hmm, contributing something spiritual to the world, maybe through the workplace, would feel rewarding.

You must.

Hmm. Maybe I should network with like-minded professionals on this.

That's a poss. Concrete techniques. Consolidation and energy.

The spell of self-hypnosis. Such a wounded powerlessness some folks have.

This is one of the main observations I had. It's rampant, and of course the reason they are so manipulated by the politicians. They refuse to see the problem in themselves.

Couldn't figure out how to address this and pretty much decided I can't. They don't want out.

I've tried a few debate boards before. Some people really like the battle, and sometimes I did, too. I worried less about offending bitter sensibilities. But I'd feel the stronger reactions to what I wrote, before I went on-line to read them, and it could get toxic.

OMG yes. Exactly. The predictable response.
I, too, needed to battle something this way,and that was the part that disturbed me th most. I wanted the desire for this toxic experience to be gone. I knew it would in a little time.

29/9/06 2:30 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Enjoy yourself tonight, Kad!

29/9/06 2:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Really, what are a bunch of people incoherently venting their angst going to do about things? .

My view too. And the repetition. The mantras reinforcing the powerlessness.

ONG!!!
Politicians too are carried along by forces greater than they, so while I skim the headlines, I don't really care to delve into their personalities to predict events the way some astrologers do. People who are aware have more of a say in their own fates.

I couldn't belive I was doing this. Delving into the personalities of people I have no interest in. Useless activity.

The most important thing of all. Our awareness of our say in our own fates.

People have such death grips on their beliefs, it's a wonder there's any life left in them.

Maybe it goes with the belief in suffering and powerlessness. Even if the bad things happen they can be circumvented. They identify with the "evil" So what's that saying?
If a person thinks it's coming for him there's something going on in his psyche.

Very interesting. I haven't gotten into comparing two charts together like that.

I'll do more if you're interested. Our relationships are all specific to certain lessons and things of the moment.

29/9/06 3:08 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The first and foremost thing to always keep in mind is that the politicians are not in charge but are manipulated by forces beyond their control. It's all a part of a grand orchestration and we can't see the good of where it's leading. Some sense it.

Politicians too are carried along by forces greater than they

29/9/06 3:12 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"They refuse to see the problem in themselves."

There's something stimulating we get out of dramas. Maybe it's like watching soap operas!

Some people can use wonderful practices meant for growth to prevent it. Words can point the way to the receptive who truly seek understanding instead of clinging to confirmation bias. Some of us need the experience of dark nights when everything seems taken away, and then healing. Some can distract themselves for a very long time, until crisis shocks them.

"I, too, needed to battle something this way,and that was the part that disturbed me the most. I wanted the desire for this toxic experience to be gone. I knew it would in a little time."

In retrospect, I don't regret all of it. I learned a lot about many things from engaging in the national debate on issues. It was amazing to see how people would throw in the devil and his kitchen sink, too, to buttress their political/social/theological positions. I came across many people who were just ignorant, and just a few deformed or fanatical personalities. It let me look into other people's shadows, and examine myself from new angles. When I learned what I needed to know, I was free to go on. I guess astrology would point to outer planet transits covering that span of time.

It's like a morbid fascination with watching people struggle, looking at how stuck we all can get, and how to unstick ourselves. It's wonderful illustration, live demonstrations -- from other people and also from watching one's own reactions and choosing of responses.

"And the repetition. The mantras reinforcing the powerlessness."

Mantras is a good way to put it. It's group amplification of negative emotions and ideation, which makes it harder to escape. And there's only so much schadenfreude I want to indulge in -- chocolate ice cream is better. :-)

"Maybe it goes with the belief in suffering and powerlessness. Even if the bad things happen they can be circumvented. They identify with the "evil" So what's that saying?
If a person thinks it's coming for him there's something going on in his psyche."


Disowned power, maybe? It's very basic, whatever the outer issue. A lot of emotional reactions/resistance result from beliefs exaggerating the significance of uncomfortable feelings.

(I am a victim of circumstances.)
| (Despite challenges, or because of them, I choose among destinies.)

(My power has been stolen from me. People have power over me.) | (I am empowered. I have the power of action, of speech, and so do other people.)

(I blame something outside of myself.) | (I can take responsibility for my own happiness.)

(I am looking for my happy ending.) | (There are no happy endings, only happy people.)

(I am a love seeker.) | (I can choose to love in the present, and to find ways to do it today, in my current life circumstances.)


The other side of power is the people who reach for controlling power, "power over" instead of "power of". In extreme form, fanaticism.

I could guess that polarity per se is not necessarily a problem. A problem would be to get stuck in an uncomfortable place, or to keep going in the wrong direction for oneself. Reversing one's polarity can be good, too, if it motivates me to reject limiting circumstances and propel myself into a better life.

Magnetism offers two poles, by which to attract or repel. Under the right conditions, it can also levitate. People need to look at what they are doing with their own energies, and look at better ways to direct them. We could say society has a poor understanding of power issues in many areas and on many levels.

"I'll do more if you're interested. Our relationships are all specific to certain lessons and things of the moment."

Maybe when something in particular calls for attention. Too much might confuse me. :-)

30/9/06 11:34 AM  
Blogger jm said...

More great insights to respond to. Will be back soon.

30/9/06 1:12 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's like a morbid fascination with watching people struggle, looking at how stuck we all can get, and how to unstick ourselves. It's wonderful illustration, live demonstrations -- from other people and also from watching one's own reactions and choosing of responses.

They do this to avoid facing their own stuckness.

The choosing of responses is a good thought. One thing I think I've learned myself from this. At least some self direction after the initial response takes hold.

Disowned power, maybe? It's very basic, whatever the outer issue. A lot of emotional reactions/resistance result from beliefs exaggerating the significance of uncomfortable feelings.

That's an interesting thought too. The exaggeration of significance. Guilt is always a player.

I think the power has to do with individual relationships with authority that manifest in the view towards God and other authority figures. Is (s)he punishing or benevolent? And it looks like the collective believes in a punishing force. All the Judeo, Islamic, Christian years have taken their toll. Guilt again.

My power has been stolen from me. People have power over me.) | (I am empowered. I have the power of action, of speech, and so do other people.)

We have so many powers.
It's a game with the self when people feed the perception that others are controlling their destinies. It's easier. Less responsibility.

We could say society has a poor understanding of power issues in many areas and on many levels.

We could definitely say that.

30/9/06 8:04 PM  
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