Sunday, May 13, 2007

Top of the Morning Blogland!

And a fine one it is. A sunny spring brunch with an extra treat.
I feel good and hope to be getting even better as Mars zips along into Aries. I want to celebrate with you and tell you a little tale.
Being a human mixed(up) bag I have some pretty bad traits. Yes, it's true. One of my very worst is being a righteous, holier than thouist, know-it-all. Sagittarius is notorious for this. I was born with a Moon-Jupiter conjunction in Sagittarius in the 9th house, in a grand fire trine, tip of a kite formation. The die was cast.
People often abhor this characteristic in me, and some even hate me altogether because of it, and the churchy hierarchical pomposity of Sagittarius that sometimes emerges. Jupiter is not known for shrinking. But the other side if this coin is the ability to provide a little inspiration, which I've always done. It will take a lifetime to master this and provide fiery spirit consistently and effectively, without making them mad, preserving my life until a ripe old age.

Well.
Friday night I had a bout with one of my daily Mars in the 12th attacks. Extreme pain complete with a mini panic attack and dizziness. I couldn't sleep with all the fear and what-not, but when I finally did doze off, I was awakened with a jolt by a dream.

A comment appeared on my blog blasting me for being such a know-it-all. I immediately went to delete it, to hide my embarrassment so as youse all wouldn't see it. But I quickly changed my mind and decided to have a chat with the man. I said to the gentleman, "Yes. What you said is true. But I know I will continue to be this way. I will work with improving the problem." While we were chatting, a violent storm whipped up and a huge turbulent wave came over us. The structure I was in was so solid that the wave washed over and left me completely unharmed. A calm followed and I peacefully continued discussing my character flaws with my detractor, who was becoming more and more amenable.
The end
.
Do I try to shove this under some phony meekness, or do I let it fly and find its own equilibrium in time? The other negatives too? Can I trust them to work themselves out?
In many ways I'd like to get down with some funky blues and dance, leaving it to the Saturns in Sagittarius who are really cut out to do the job. The great teachers. The knowingest of the know-it-alls. Saturn is a slow poke, but it's worth the wait. If you need any pointers along the way, I can help you out. In between jitterbugs and shuffles.

75 Comments:

Blogger Tseka said...

whoo-boy.
Got first hand knowledge of these traits myself.
Sagittarius at the top of the chart assisted by Jupiter in Aries in the first and Pluto in Leo, what can i say but more of the same?

Did i ever mention that my mother has Moon/Saturn on my Sun? Saturn in Sag i'm gonna be thinking about that one....
Perhaps the reason that all of her kids were born with sun in the 10?
What happens with a houseful of strongly Uranian independent types? Some think we are too different, others inspiration. But different. It was/is good.
BTW i just love your brand of inspiration.

13/5/07 6:32 AM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Well, one pointer I am curious about is what determines the width/shape of the houses. My 12th is very wide. Others are very narrow. Does this have any effect on the chart? And why does this happen at all? This is one of those things I just have to know so it can all fit together, I guess... :o)

13/5/07 10:59 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Do I try to shove this under some phony meekness, or do I let it fly and find its own equilibrium in time? The other negatives too? Can I trust them to work themselves out?"

Well, now, I think that's an excellent, excellent dream.

You experienced that the structure of your self identity is sound enough to bear through the wash of emotional feedback, and that you had a calm place, sometimes called the Witness, a non-manager self, from which you can cope with and affect what happens next. You showed that you needn't be locked into a managerial pattern that no longer serves you.

You also demonstrated your understanding that what is needed is not always dramatic change.

For example, we do not need to rush out and suddenly tell everyone the whole truth, nor engage in heroic battles with draconic windmills -- although that could be entertaining. Excess could be self-defeating, and a cause of stormy weather.

But we can be ever a little less deceptive or untruthful, a little less greedy or addicted, a little less wasteful or extreme, a little less fearful or delusional, etc., and that is how progress becomes possible. The apparent (Saturnine?) restraint involved is really about allowing reality (which is also the truth of one's self and one's own experience) to emerge. Easier breath, less struggle or defensiveness.

Emotions happen, then they pass. The quickest way to get out of an emotion is through it. (Emotions are not necessariy bad, of course. Longing and anger are not necessarily problems.)

Then, energy is freed. Sometimes amazing things happen. :-)

13/5/07 12:34 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Did i ever mention that my mother has Moon/Saturn on my Sun? Saturn in Sag i'm gonna be thinking about that one....
Perhaps the reason that all of her kids were born with sun in the 10?


Whoo-boy is right! This is exactly how I approach astrology, tseka, and it warms my cockles. It shows exactly why and how, and the path to learning. I think it's easier than we think. Like joe said yesterday, the teachers are always there. The families are rich in this.

So you were your mother's teacher with her probably depressive tendencies, and she tempered yours. I have Moon at 22, Joop at 20, and my sister came in with Venus at 20, Saturn at 12. She's the voice of reality for me. I advise and inspire her.
Tell me more as we go. I love it.

My father was all Uranian with a Pisces Sun and we were the oddballs that understood each other. I think Uranian families are tolerant of aberrations, and also seek security together in a way becuase of the misfit feeling. It depends on the other factors how much the independence is encouraged. Alternative families. Important for the others' progress. My father's family was hugely Uranaian, and I got along with them better. It's probably a commonality between us, too. A unique familiarity and different way of expressing intimacy.

"too different"?
Hmmmm.

13/5/07 1:23 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"And why does this happen at all? This is one of those things I just have to know so it can all fit together, I guess... :o)"

Joe, I do think that it is helpful to see things visually.

It is illustrated by the transparent sphere at the Web page at http://www.myastrologybook.com/planets-in-houses-astrology.htm.

The center of the sphere represents the planet Earth.

It's easily seen that the Houses are twelve equal slices or sectors of spherical space, through which the planets travel.

The orbits of the planets are within the circular band of the zodiac (shown in color). The band of the zodiac is at an angle to the boundaries of the houses. The astrologer's zodiac is itself divided into twelve equal parts.

The houses (although equal) intersect the zodiac at an angle such that twelve arcs of varying length are created along the zodiac.

In most house systems, the 10th House cusp is the same as the Midheaven or Medium Coeli. In a natal chart, it is the highest part of the zodiac relative to your birth location on Earth. It's however high the Sun gets in the local sky around that time -- a little bit south of us for those of us who live in temperate climates. At the equator during the equinoxes, the Sun would appear to be directly overhead at noon.

13/5/07 1:30 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe, the houses vary more as the latitude goes further from the equator, and in very far places, there are lots of intercepts.

No one has said anything about this as far as I know, but I think it has significance. The low Sun is up there too. I would like to take this further.

The fat houses take longer for planets to cross, so of course, there will be an effect. Maybe more extremes of character are common to the extremes in geography.
A large 12th/6th is interesting, as it emphasizes your spiritual quest and your feelings of service. The 12th gives you a huge room to retreat in.

Somehow I think this is part of why you grasp metaphysics so well. the understanding of the 12th, plus the withdrawal space in your mind to take it in. The 6th is good for piecing together. Taurus intercepted in the 12th is especially good for luxuriating in the other dimensions for sanctuary and recovery.

I'm curious about the narrow ones and we can investigate this.

13/5/07 1:33 PM  
Blogger jm said...

sometimes called the Witness, a non-manager self, from which you can cope with and affect what happens next. You showed that you needn't be locked into a managerial pattern that no longer serves you.

Yeeeaaayyyyy!!!!!!
I love the witness concept.

You also demonstrated your understanding that what is needed is not always dramatic change.

Oh how encouraging.

This was a good dream. Self acceptance, and I am my own boss. Confidence. I had another one last night along these lines concerning authority and misdemeanor.

Excess could be self-defeating, and a cause of stormy weather.

Hmmmm. So could too much restraint causing inner storm. Will think about this one.

13/5/07 1:38 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Perhaps the variety in house size indictaes our individuality as we stray from the scientific norm.

It shows us that there is no set standard really, Maybe how far the curve goes from center defines us.

13/5/07 1:41 PM  
Blogger jm said...

let's investigate for a moment here. The narrowest house are the 3rd/9th. Gemini is the 3rd house naturally. This affects your Gemini rising and Saturn in Gem, I would think. Not a whole lot of perceived time to communicate ideas? Feeling rushed? Squeezed out? Having to be succinct and to the point.

13/5/07 1:48 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Hmmmm. So could too much restraint causing inner storm. Will think about this one."

It seems from my studies that a key is fine attention. Like we develop in listening to sounds carefully.

There is a moment of free will before a person enters into rage or compulsion or whatever it is. At that point, the energy is not yet directed into the familiar behavioral habit. It's still potential, and could take on a variety of forms. Examined closely, there is a chain or sequence before a storm can manifest. The idea isn't to lock up the energy, but to allow it to travel new paths, sound new tunes, instead of constraining it to the same, old, tired one.

So that's how karma is dissolved, through non-repetition or non-creation of it.

I am speaking generally, of course, and anyone may or may not find it useful in their specific circumstances. :-)

13/5/07 1:54 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

For it work, we can't make energy into the enemy. We become more moderate and tolerant.

We don't polarize about it, we don't take sides, and we don't have to judgmentally make one thing good and another thing bad. If we do, then we enter into the epic struggle of good vs. evil, and we start identifying with one side and struggling against the other, with the inevitable falling off of wagons, see-sawing and explosive releases.

It would help the political area, too, if more people were less robotically programmed, less polarized.

13/5/07 2:04 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There is a moment of free will before a person enters into rage or compulsion or whatever it is. At that point, the energy is not yet directed into the familiar behavioral habit.

I think I recognize this more and more. For me, the free will is not in the instinctual response, the initial emotion, but in the reaction. I am catching myself lately being able to decide this. sometimes I decide correctly and go ahead and do the wrong thing anyway. That needs some attention.

I think maybe there are many moments in the transition to full kinetic where will can be imposed. Can you stop a storm midway?

13/5/07 2:05 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"This was a good dream. Self acceptance, and I am my own boss. Confidence. I had another one last night along these lines concerning authority and misdemeanor."

Sounds like you're doing pretty well with that. :-) And remember, everyone has many more dreams than they actually remember consciously. Even people who claim to not remember any dreams at all.

13/5/07 2:06 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It would help the political area, too, if more people were less robotically programmed, less polarized.

I would tend to agree with this.:o)

We don't polarize about it, we don't take sides, and we don't have to judgmentally make one thing good and another thing bad.

This is enlightenment.

It is absolutely so. The "negatives' lead us to the next moment just as successfully as the positives.

13/5/07 2:09 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Perhaps the variety in house size indictaes our individuality as we stray from the scientific norm."

That's kind of an interesting idea: whether people in temperate or extreme climates live less normally than people living near the equatorial regions.

I wonder what happens if the regions with cold climates turn into warm climates? The house and the zodiac systems don't change substantively, but the climates conceivably could again.

13/5/07 2:09 PM  
Blogger jm said...

As Mars leaves Pisces these are good thoughts.

My father was very Piscean and I was astonished at his lack of judgementalism. It didn't even occur to him to judge. There was only one person I recall him disliking and even then it wasn't a question of right and wrong.

He did some heroic things in his life, and a lot of nothing, but I always felt his detachment form it all and the allowance of flow.

13/5/07 2:13 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I wonder what happens if the regions with cold climates turn into warm climates? The house and the zodiac systems don't change substantively, but the climates conceivably could again.

Interesting thought. In a deeper sense, the "climatic" conditions are always changing on some level and this is why the interpretation is so plastic.

13/5/07 2:15 PM  
Blogger jm said...

whether people in temperate or extreme climates live less normally than people living near the equatorial regions.

I think they do. We are of the territory we are born and live in. It's interesting how we choose our own dwelling places after our upbringing.

13/5/07 2:17 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Another interpretation of the storm is that I'm protecting myself from my own storms I'm creating, so I can let them happen without panic.

It all points to being myself and letting it be revealed.

13/5/07 2:25 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I think maybe there are many moments in the transition to full kinetic where will can be imposed."

Yes, that's exactly right.

Imposed, or maybe a better word is "exercised". That is, one doesn't make the choice that leads to the next link in the sequence. One sees the rut in the road, and says, "Okay, I don't have to drive the car into that rut over there again and again." Or, "Why am I doing this, anyway? I don't have to push that boulder up the hill over and over again, every time it rolls down."

Maybe we could say that it is waking up a little bit about the choice. One brings into awareness the parts of oneself that have been choosing. Then it's no longer unconscious choice, no longer like dissociated sleepwalking or possession by an alien entity.

"Can you stop a storm midway?"

I suppose, depending what exactly are we talking about, as it's just one's own energy, really. There could be a little inertia/momentum; we don't have to let that discourage us. Could take some effort to climb out of the rut that one's already jumped down into. Well, it's a chain of reactions to get to full manifestation.

One can allow oneself to really feel energy -- without struggling against it -- and without being driven to act on it.

It can be a relief to feel what's underlying, whether that's fear, sadness, loss, or a void wanting to be filled. Like, sometimes anger is a way to avoid feeling fear. Could be repressed emotions that cause the surface emotion.

Action is a very final link in the chain, after previous links including perception, evaluation/appraisal (e.g., as pleasant or unpleasant feeling), and impulse (e.g., aversion or craving).

An important thing is to strengthen the circuitry for states of emotional wholeness. We just get stronger at what we do. If I find that I've been angry a lot, I can heal that by seeking more opportunities to exercise states of wholeness such as love, compassion, kindness and sympathetic joy. Studies show that people who normally practice wholesome states (could seem to be by fortunate circumstance rather than intentionally) return sooner than other people to a calm baseline after being provoked.

"It all points to being myself and letting it be revealed."

I think you're right. :-)

13/5/07 3:02 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"As Mars leaves Pisces these are good thoughts."

Good point! :-) You're the spiritual warrior, heheh.

"....He did some heroic things in his life, and a lot of nothing, but I always felt his detachment from it all and the allowance of flow."

What a great example.

13/5/07 3:08 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It can be a relief to feel what's underlying, whether that's fear, sadness, loss, or a void wanting to be filled. Like, sometimes anger is a way to avoid feeling fear. Could be repressed emotions that cause the surface emotion.

I'm big on this. It's where I've "excercised" will. I have consciously stayed in experiences to complete them, even when it takes longer than I had hoped. It often does.

I find that when I think I've got it, another layer reveals itself like a muliti layered peeling. Perhaps that never ends, so I arbitrarily decide to leave. Hard to tell. I learned this well when dealing with death and grief.

Anger and fear are one in the same to me. Fear is the response, anger is the expression. Fear is a constant for everyone. For some, anger is the motivation to surmount it. For others it is an habitual escape.

There are always repressed emotions. What we express is immediately filled with others. So I'm not big on the pop psychology themes around this. We express what we do as we go. If some are bothered by repression they will work on it. Others probably don't need to. It's a good thing so much is repressed really. It would be pandemonium otherwise. Wait a minute. It already is.:o)

13/5/07 3:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

One can allow oneself to really feel energy -- without struggling against it -- and without being driven to act on it.

Enlightenment once again. Or a moment of restful inertia.

13/5/07 3:34 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Studies show that people who normally practice wholesome states (could seem to be by fortunate circumstance rather than intentionally) return sooner than other people to a calm baseline after being provoked.

Th absolute key. It revolves around seeing the value in ALL experience, and seeing the natural sequence, thus diminishing feelings of victimization.

A lot is recognizing that there is probably less we need to do to rectify circumstance. Lessening of guilt being paramount. Letting go is often as good as tampering and trying to change things too much.

13/5/07 3:40 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Action is a very final link in the chain

And this is defined a lot by the Mars story in our charts.

The Moon is the start; instinctual unschooled response. Then Mercury picks up the sensations and takes them to the brain where they go through the multi million clicks and whirs of interpretation. After that, Mercury carries the processed information to the musculature for action. The other planets can be involved.

So Moon, Merc, and Mars tell us how we do all of this from an astro standpoint, all malleable, of course.

For example, a Moon joop responds in a big way. Feels everything in an exaggerated fashion. If the Mercury aspects Saturn, however, the end result might be much toned down. Mars-Saturn would cause hesitation in action, calculation. Mars-Uranus; immediate impulsive action. Or all of this could be bypassed in that blissful state of nondoing and just experiencing energy.:o)

13/5/07 3:55 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"It's a good thing so much is repressed really. It would be pandemonium otherwise. Wait a minute. It already is.:o)"

Maybe to some extent. And that's if one converts perception to appraisal to feeling to emotion to impulse and finally to action. I read that brain activity imaging backs up the general sequencing.

Actually, this all reminds me of an argument I've heard about sexual repression. :-) Sexual freedom isn't going to cause rampant sexuality everywhere. It's repressiveness and obsession that go together. Obsessions happen when avoiding deep feeling. Obessive thoughts, for example, are avoiding feeling. Some people who try to be too "pure" find that it makes them break out in dangerous sexual escapes or damaging affairs.

13/5/07 5:10 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"escapes" -- I meant to type "escapades", although "escapes" could work, too. :-)

"A lot is recognizing that there is probably less we need to do to rectify circumstance. Lessening of guilt being paramount. Letting go is often as good as tampering and trying to change things too much."

People can release a lot of problems. Hence, real change, or a shift in awareness from the illusory to the real, from constricted patterns of breathing to full, relaxed breathing.

13/5/07 5:18 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Enlightenment once again. Or a moment of restful inertia."

As I understand it, the word "inertia" doesn't mean unmoving or unmoved. It's like maintaining a steady speed or motion, whatever that happens to be. Turtle speed is still some speed, and the bigger problem with the rabbit was that he lacked constancy, not that he was too quick to win.

Could be a real smooth ride, if constancy is emphasized. Although, many people enjoy dance, rhythm, and even the occasional rollercoaster ride. I guess the value for everyone is that there's more options.

Proper meditation doesn't make people dissociate too much from life or from themselves. They are more likely to find themselves more fully engaged, alert, but relaxed and less stressed.

13/5/07 5:40 PM  
Blogger jm said...

As I understand it, the word "inertia" doesn't mean unmoving or unmoved. It's like maintaining a steady speed or motion, whatever that happens to be.

This is perfect. I was wondering about this word usage but that's exactly what I'm aiming at. Going on its own momentum then.
It literally means not being acted upon by external force.

I experience this while running my usual 5 miles. people wonder how I can do it so easily, but I go at just the exact pace that requires no force. There is an optimum speed that allows the action to carry its own forward thrust. Thus, it relaxes me.

Same with repression. There is just the right amount, maybe, that holds things in balance. I am of the opinion that left to natural sequencing, feelings will find their outlet when appropriate. It could be a matter of trust.

Then we go back to the big picture again about obsession and avoidance of deep feelings. Maybe this is the way people ultimately access these. It would seem to me that obsession is a call to attention, and not necessarily a useless ritual.

I recently was engaged in a slightly obsessive behavior that finally brought a minor injury. I understood what I was doing to bring it on, and it had further ramifications, related to stretch and relaxation. The healing is almost complete and I will see if the effect has been as broad as I think, therefore giving sense and purpose to the original behavior. It was easy for me to end it, and was worth it, as it rerouted me.

13/5/07 7:41 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"It literally means not being acted upon by external force."

Well, "unless" or "until". Inertia doesn't prevent the action of force. Some definitions say "unless affected".

And if something has volition and the ability to move on its own, then we do not expect it to behave completely predictably.

"I experience this while running my usual 5 miles. people wonder how I can do it so easily, but I go at just the exact pace that requires no force. There is an optimum speed that allows the action to carry its own forward thrust. Thus, it relaxes me."

Very nice. Another metaphor might be of a surfer, apparently going with the flow, being carried along by a larger force -- but he is exquisitely responsive. In the surfer or the runner, constantly adjusting actions of muscle groups achieve overall dynamic balance and stability in the midst of movement. It is a graceful and powerful image of strength and sensitive responsiveness.

While surfing, the surfer may be so in harmony with the elements around him that some distinctions don't feel like they apply. We could say that there are opposing muscle groups, or that he is defying gravity, but the sense of separativeness from experience may be left behind.

"Maybe this is the way people ultimately access these. It would seem to me that obsession is a call to attention, and not necessarily a useless ritual."

Yes, if they learn from the experience of obsession, then there is returned value. It ends, having served its purpose.

People learn to allow the feelings, even if they're at first scary, and the ability to really feel returns. It may turn out that having the feelings isn't so bad after all. Most people are not as bad as they may have thought themselves to be.

"The healing is almost complete and I will see if the effect has been as broad as I think, therefore giving sense and purpose to the original behavior. It was easy for me to end it, and was worth it, as it rerouted me."

Very interesting. An adjustment, and healing. I remember that there's an astrological aspect associated with "adjustment."

13/5/07 9:08 PM  
Blogger jm said...

apparently going with the flow, being carried along by a larger force -- but he is exquisitely responsive

And exqusitely stated.
This is it. It sounds sublimely pleasurable to me just reading it. The larger force invites us to participate, not dominate.

In the surfer or the runner, constantly adjusting actions of muscle groups achieve overall dynamic balance and stability in the midst of movement.

Oh that's delicious.

I remember that there's an astrological aspect associated with "adjustment."

YES!! the quincunx (inconjunct); 150 degrees. A very very interesting aspect, and associated with health and healing.

If you put the planet on the 1st house of the wheel and add the quincunx, it lands 150 degrees away either in the 6th house of health or the 8th house of crisis, both healing houses. The last lunations for many months now have been in this aspect. Could be an attempt to heal.

I also think the quincunx is seeking opposition and balance at 180 and in this 150th degree it has dynamic energy leaning toward that achievement. The last adjustments before the ease. I love this aspect. Contrary to many astrologers I think oppositions are not that difficult to work with.

13/5/07 9:49 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Interesting. My advanced Aquarian friend went to California to heal and go to another dimension. He alighted on surfing as the path. He has Mars/Saturn/Sun in the 1st, and he goes between total force, sometimes destructive, and ease. He's very very good at it. Maybe he is working on the exact thing you described. I'll find out. He'll know just what we are talking about.

13/5/07 9:53 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There is a time in training when effort dominates but then the body adjusts to the activity and harmony takes over. It's amazing how quickly this happens.

Could the forces really be in our favor and the defiance is primitive brute force trying to evolve?

13/5/07 10:01 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"If you put the planet on the 1st house of the wheel and add the quincunx, it lands 150 degrees away either in the 6th house of health or the 8th house of crisis, both healing houses. The last lunations for many months now have been in this aspect. Could be an attempt to heal."

Hmmm!

Might be interesting to look again at when the lunations started, and the latest one.

"Contrary to many astrologers I think oppositions are not that difficult to work with."

I suspect that oppositions could potentially operate by way of complementarity. The idea of squares sound more problematic to me.

"There is a time in training when effort dominates but then the body adjusts to the activity and harmony takes over. It's amazing how quickly this happens."

The body memory at work. :-) The good ole body.

"Could the forces really be in our favor and the defiance is primitive brute force trying to evolve?"

Well, that is quite the question to go off to dreamland with. :-) The rulers of Aquarius -- that is to say, Saturn and Uranus -- are closely inconjunct each other at present.

13/5/07 11:18 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Well yes, they are. Also the Saturn in Leo is basically inconjunct all the Pisces these days, adjusting and hopefully healing all those little egos.

Off you go. Or on. That dreamland is a busy place.

14/5/07 1:27 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I love inconjuncts.
I've come to the conclusion that they hold exceptional talent.

Pisces-Leo: great actors. The ego to be in the light with the surrender of Pisces to the role.
Gemini-Scorpio: couldn't find a better researcher in the universe.
Leo-Capricorn: wfhew. Bossman extraordinaire.

They are wonderful.

14/5/07 2:35 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Ha, that's pretty neat. Does it work with three signs, like Leo-Capricorn-Gemini, or is three a crowd?

14/5/07 9:58 AM  
Blogger Neith said...

Gemini-Scorpio: couldn't find a better researcher in the universe.

That's mine! Mercury in Scorp inconjunct Uranus in Gemini . . . I have to say it works erratically though - sometimes I end up not being able to get my words out. And I was literally tongue-tied as a baby. The doc had to clip the thin tissue under my tongue so it could move more freely.

BTW, I agree about oppositions being easier to work with because the elements involved are always complementary. Squares present a greater challenge since the underlying assumptions tend to be quite different.

14/5/07 1:24 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"And I was literally tongue-tied as a baby. The doc had to clip the thin tissue under my tongue so it could move more freely."

That's interesting. That condition happens in nearly 4% of babies, depending on how one measures and defines it. Some in my family were thought to have had that.

Treatment is controversial, too. There's really no good way to know in every case whether a very young child needs treatment. Also, the frenulum naturally recedes as the child grows, so the condition might be outgrown.

14/5/07 3:49 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Yes, it works with the three and it's called a yod, the "finger of fate". There is not a whole lot of clarity on inconjuncts. I'll do a post.

The doc had to clip the thin tissue under my tongue so it could move more freely.

Really????? That is fascinating. It appears to have worked!
Saturn ruling your 3rd, Merc in the 12th. Seeing more than you can articulate. The 12th is so weird. Must be behind the tongue. Very very interesting. Amazing what we learn about one another as we go.

14/5/07 3:54 PM  
Blogger jm said...

LOL kad! The timing.

Leave it to you to come up with obscurities and incredible facts.

There is more to this than meets the tongue. Let me ponder.

14/5/07 3:56 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's very very interesting since Mercury-Mars is usually fast tongued. I wish I could see the 4%.

I was wondering about this 12th thing. Usually family karma is involved. Maybe there are patterns of communication difficlties in the line.

14/5/07 4:04 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Yes, it works with the three and it's called a yod, the "finger of fate". There is not a whole lot of clarity on inconjuncts. I'll do a post."

Oh, I've come across the term, but I don't know much about it. It sounds exciting. :-)

I used to know a paranoid schizophrenic who had that with Saturn, Ascendant, Neptune, Sun, South Node, Jupiter, Pluto, and the Moon. Neptune was on the Ascendant. That's at least eight points. Whew!

It was two yods, connected to each other by sharing three of those planets.

"There is more to this than meets the tongue. Let me ponder."

Well, my aunt brought the topic up about a week ago, so it's relatively fresh in my mind. She was talking about a co-worker of hers, I think. Couldn't stick his tongue out much.

My first thought whenever someone talks about restricted tongue action is always, "Well, damn, I guess that means he can't French kiss too well. Etc." :-)

14/5/07 6:15 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Buz Myers wrote a fascinating book on inconjuncts, like none other.

Inconjuncts are major aspects, not minor, and I don't know anyone who can work without them in the chart. I think they are very important as they tend to be Uranian in nature. Just as the square was strongly connected to the Piscean Age, and we spent 2500 years learning how to handle it, the inconjunct is associate with the Aquarian Age and we are going to spend the next 2500 learning how to handle the inconjunct.

Interesting theory. Time to do an article.

14/5/07 6:52 PM  
Blogger jm said...

You can use the ASC and house cusps. For example, I have my Sun in Scorpio in my 6th house inconjunct my ASC and Jupiter. This is a condition of chronic back problems. My ASC is 14 and at age 14 I did something to one of my discs, and it has been a chronic problem all my life. When a planet is inconjunct the ASC you better bet your bippy it indicates a health problem. The planet will signify what type.

Buz was lively. He loved bippies quite a bit, as I recall.

14/5/07 7:01 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

It's very very interesting since Mercury-Mars is usually fast tongued. I wish I could see the 4%.

When it's all flowing together, it's wonderful! However. . .

As a child I had trouble with the sibilants, like 's'. Still do especially if I'm tired.

And I'm not going to touch that comments of Kad's about kissing . . . :-)

14/5/07 7:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

You notice I didn't touch it either.:)

I think there is a some sort of crippling, however minor, with anything in the 12th. Along with the spiritual aspect, maybe as compensation. I'm wondering, since it inconjuncts the 7th planet if this has affected your significant relationships communication-wise.

Did it bother you as a child, in school for example?

So a minor speech impediment with an 8th house inconjunct. here's what Buz says:

A Mercury inconjunct has a tendency to make you want to overcommit, and not because you want to. When you don't follow through you go, "Oh God, why did I tell Alice I would do that?"
It is connected with not honestly expressing what you feel. I have a Mercury/Uranus inconjunct. What it does to me is I will overload myself. One of the things that you learn about this is that the other person really doesn't care how much you have to do. That's what forces you to evaluate.

14/5/07 8:46 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Wish i could remember where i read it - something in esoteric astrology, Alice Bailey or a follower that the inconjuncts were often in charts of people who felt themselves to be soul mates.

14/5/07 8:55 PM  
Blogger jm said...

If Mars is making the 8th house inconjunct it's a holding in of energy and a feeling that you never are in a position to totally allow your energy to come out. At the same time, you never feel that you can express what it is you want because of the 8th house secretiveness.

It indicates the controlling of an energy problem. How many of you have Mars in Scorpio? How much do you control your energy? One is the octave of finding self (Aries), the other is to kill itself off to find a higher meaning (Scorpio). So you are always holding your energy in until you explode. When a Mars in Scorpio explodes, leave the room because they will clean you out. They'll get even for everything that has happened since the age of two because Scorpio has to kill. Now this doesn't mean literally, but it looks that way when it's angry.


:o).

14/5/07 8:59 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Really? Soul mates? You mean in synastry? I'll have to recheck my charts.

I think it's a special aspect. They've always stood out for me.

14/5/07 9:08 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Very, very Marsian weekend for me. Lots of drama, people are sick with upper respiratory crud and unlike the usual meekness that comes with pneumonias these folk are frippin angry.

Went to the PO to mail off some meds to a friend and two cars collided at top speed in front of me. Whew.

Ulli-Maki, wandering soul, a maine coon cat adopted me, he tangled with the sidewinder on my porch. Today a bucket of pus poured out plus sanguineous matter. He's young, will be back to it in a few days.

Mars square Pluto what a trip!!!!

I stopped for milk, bought a hula hoop. great anti-dote. A shimmy to go with your jitterbug and shuffle. I can shuffle and turn but not jitterbug (yet) and still hula-hula.

Good to see you all in such great form.

14/5/07 9:09 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I do a lot with them. For example, in your chart, tseka, the Aquarius rising and ruler in Cancer forms the inconjunct by sign. That's why I see the Cancer-Aquarius combo as especially talented in nurturing and protecting. Did you ever know one that didn't protect all their friends?

I have a Moon-Sun inconjunct by degree and I'm going to ponder this. Do I love god???? Cancer-Sagittarius. Intimacy with the forces. I feel the charts. That's how I read them.

14/5/07 9:13 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Ja synastry. One persons sun inconjuncts the other's. Dredging up the file in the long expired grey matter....maybe limited to sun, moon, venus and mars.

14/5/07 9:16 PM  
Blogger jm said...

unlike the usual meekness that comes with pneumonias these folk are frippin angry.

HA HA HA!!! It's true. Not like the usually pale and consumptive approach!

Collisions are totally unnerving. And OMG the sidewinder. The poor creatures that find you! Motley crew.

I simply cannot believe it. A hula hoop.
One night I jitterbugged in my apt. and almost passed out from excitement. Approach with caution.

14/5/07 9:17 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Awhile back we had planned to dredge up the gray matter. Last winter. Well, life has it's twists. I'm not through yet, though.

It's been a watershed week for me. The whole Mars in Pisces actually, and some saving graces have appeared as well. Long term things resolved. I am renewed and ready to start a great cycle.

14/5/07 9:21 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I think we're all soul mates.

14/5/07 9:22 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

yep

14/5/07 9:25 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Thanks for the tidbit about the Asc and inconjuct assoc with disease. i'm going to definitely look at that. Also that bit about Mars in Scorpio. Mars in Scorpio has always had a lot to say to me given my Venus is there and it has not always been so great. Now my antenna are whirling.

14/5/07 9:32 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There's so much I wanted to do while we're in this dimension together. This gathering is so unique and I never tire of it. Eventually we'll scatter, but this is a precious moment.

One thing I long to do is talk about our past lives as we perceive them. I've done this in a kind of meditative state and it's quite revealing.

Another is the connection in our charts and who we REALLY are to one another. Like joe was saying. We are our teachers.
It's always tricky to ascertain just how much to reveal, but I'm pretty bold about that.

It's fascinating. how Bush and all those crazies led us to one another. In the bunker. The crazies are in one too. Maybe it's Pluto in the GC.

Frienship is a pretty powerful thing.

14/5/07 9:32 PM  
Blogger jm said...

OH!! YES!! More on the disease.
Mars in Scorpio is awful when it's awful!

I love the whole Mars-Pluto thing. We should do a thread. Neith knows. I know from my brother who ripped my dolls apart.

Venus in Scorpio. Very tough. Especially for an Aquarius rising, NN in the 1st. Probably breaking bonds is the way that wants to go.

14/5/07 9:39 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Great, great discussion topics. I'm yaaaaawning and barely able to keep my peepers open so i will need to catch up later.

And yes friendship is very powerful.
Who is in my circle? The major question i have been asking the past few years.
It becomes clear.

14/5/07 9:41 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Well get some rest. All of us strays are lucky to have you. Even the sidewinder who seems to have taken a special liking to you. Just because it slithers doesn't mean it gets the bulk of your attention. I'm going to have a word with the thing.

14/5/07 9:46 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Btw, Venus in Cancer is cozy, warm, and soft. Good for hard-nosed Aries rising Cancers.

14/5/07 9:47 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

OH!! YES!! More on the disease.
Mars in Scorpio is awful when it's awful!

I love the whole Mars-Pluto thing. We should do a thread. Neith knows. I know from my brother who ripped my dolls apart.


Now let's play nice :-) . . . I was an awful child though. Given to throwing things mostly because I was shorter than my older sister (Scorp) who picked on me when we were littles. Pluto does widely square my Mars too . . .


What it does to me is I will overload myself. One of the things that you learn about this is that the other person really doesn't care how much you have to do. That's what forces you to evaluate.

This was/is something I have always had to pay attention to also. Interesting stuff!!

The Pluto transits managed to wear away a lot of the rough edges for me. This second Saturn Return has been the best though. After all, I met you all!! :-)

14/5/07 9:52 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Venus in Scorpio. Very tough.

Everyone says this. Maybe it is the exact mutual reception to Mars in Libra that makes me wonder what people are talking about. (?)

How i perceive Venus in Scorpio in the 8th is all about Tantra. Venus in Sco with Aqu asc is merging into the wholebeing. It is the healer inside me who locked eyes with Ulli-Maki a feral male cat of considerable size turned him on his back on my lap and expressed an abscess the size of a ping-pong ball. And he held my gaze and curled his arms around mine and never did one claw come out on my naked arms.

Venus in Scorpio is a humbling gift.

It probably does not grant the usual relationships maybe that Aquarian asc was just the saving grace since i don't yearn for them.

14/5/07 9:55 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

And yes friendship is very powerful.
Who is in my circle? The major question i have been asking the past few years.
It becomes clear.


ha, ha, ha! Clear indeed, my gift from Saturn.

14/5/07 9:55 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

It is the healer inside me who locked eyes with Ulli-Maki a feral male cat of considerable size turned him on his back on my lap and expressed an abscess the size of a ping-pong ball. And he held my gaze and curled his arms around mine and never did one claw come out on my naked arms.

Now that brings tears to my eyes . . . what a loving guy and very, very smart.

14/5/07 9:57 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Awww Neith, i was refering to a couple of men with their mars very close to my venus. Maybe too close eh?

14/5/07 9:59 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

Awww Neith, i was refering to a couple of men with their mars very close to my venus. Maybe too close eh?

With your need for space & the deep silences, I can see where that could be the case. What was desirable when one is young can change when one becomes a crone . . .

14/5/07 10:04 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

What was desirable when one is young can change when one becomes a crone . . .

HaHaHa....maybe, maybe not.....maybe that Venus in Sco -she is in the 8th ya know. A trine perhaps????????

14/5/07 10:08 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Amazing about the abscess.

Venus in Scorpio likes to plumb the depths of closeness and usually one on one. Heavy, healing experiences. The Aquarius keeps it from going too far and at its best, disperses it from the 'you and me against the world' to 'all of us together' in a meaningful way. Not superficial.

14/5/07 10:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

What was desirable when one is young can change when one becomes a crone

LOL!!!!!!

14/5/07 10:11 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

HaHaHa....maybe, maybe not.....maybe that Venus in Sco -she is in the 8th ya know. A trine perhaps????????

LOL!! yes, a trine can be very kind without the drama of the conjunction. Mars in Cancer or Pisces.

14/5/07 10:12 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

Now my eyes are refusing to co-operate, so I will say good night . . and it was FUN!! :-)

14/5/07 10:14 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Yeah, we got through Mother's Day. Now only my birthday!!! I might do ya'll a favor and go to Polynesia for the week.

Watch those s's neith. You're tired!

14/5/07 10:18 PM  

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