Saturday, July 28, 2007

Surprise Scoop!!!

Two more politicians have entered the USA Presidential race and will be announcing on Monday, both personal friends of Howdy Doody.
Robert Borkfeld Bones III, the esteemed Senator from the fine state of Blogifornia (left), and Chaz Clarity Johnson, the popular governor from Tennessee. Both Democrats.
I am enthusiastic. New faces. Very optimistic.

83 Comments:

Anonymous Joe said...

jm, here's a question for ya. I've been trying for some time now to pinpoint the birth time for my mother. She did not know at first, and recalled that her mother had had labor induced, for some reason. Well, she finally found the data but when I run it thru Astro, it does not fit her well, IMO, except for the Virgo part. Could an induced birth be affecting this chart?

28/7/07 6:28 PM  
Blogger jm said...

No. If the birth time is correct it should fit. So what doesn't seem right?

28/7/07 7:56 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Mind you, I'm reading the interpretations in the Astroclick Portrait section. It's saying Moon in 11th indicates many friends. She hasn't had a lot of luck hanging on to friends, not b/c of conflicts but the contact is inconsistent or irregular. It's also saying she doesn't like to be alone much, which is inaccurate. Moon in Aries opposite Mars in Libra is said to denote an aggressive or competitive person. Again, I don't see this. She's pretty steady, solid and dependable.

Oh well. Other parts seem to fit so maybe this is telling me I don't know her as well as I thought I did. :o)

28/7/07 8:14 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is why I get frustrated joe. Lots of not-well-thought out astro analysis around.

It's also saying she doesn't like to be alone much, which is inaccurate. Moon in Aries opposite Mars in Libra is said to denote an aggressive or competitive person. Again, I don't see this. She's pretty steady, solid and dependable.

Moon in Aries loves to be alone. Loves to do things alone. They are dead wrong.
Her aggression is kept inside with that moon and the competition is with herself.

I have the same setup and I'm alone all the time, but when I'm with people I enjoy that too. Especially knowing I can go when I want to. I have a lot of sociable stuff with this opposition and she probably doesn't. I thoroughly enjoy being by myself which is why I decided to be a one-woman band.

There is a major conflict between self and others with this opposition and in my case, I sometimes quarrel in order to find my space again. She might not have to, but still the conflict is there. The Mars in Libra motivates her to seek her identity.

The Moon in Aries is fascinating in many ways. The emotional independence is astonishing sometimes and the basic longing to have a relationship with the self. This is primary in her life. In the 11th, it drives her to maintain her autonomy within the group, i.e., her family.

But the whole thing is more about her than others. The astroclick couldn't be more innacurate. You are right.

28/7/07 8:35 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

From a book on my shelf, "Moon in the Eleventh House. ...You want to be able to trust your friends completely, which sometimes means that you prefer to choose your friends from the people you have known a long time and are used to. ...Your moods will have a strong effect on the course of your friendships. Some days you'll really like someone, but on another day, you'll feel cool. But be careful not to act inconsistently...." Etc.

Nothing about having lots of friends or making them easily. Sounds very selective and potentially tricky, actually.

28/7/07 8:42 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Oh... *click* Moon = hidden, Aries = agressive. If it's there, it doesn't show much, although I know if we're around each other too much, we get on each others' nerves. I have gotten along better with both parents since I lived apart.

28/7/07 8:43 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Now that sounds like her, Kad, the part about "Some days you'll really like someone, but on another day, you'll feel cool."

28/7/07 8:45 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Anything aspecting the Moon?

This is how it works. the moon in the 11th feels comforted by the group but don't always participate in the goings-on. They stay within themselves, and as kad says, react according to mood.

28/7/07 8:49 PM  
Blogger jm said...

One aspect of the 11th is wishful thinking. Does she moon about what could be?

28/7/07 8:51 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

I have the same setup and I'm alone all the time, but when I'm with people I enjoy that too. Especially knowing I can go when I want to.

This is how I am, usually. I can enjoy being sociable and being alone, with a preference for the solitary times.

You know, I don't think I even know what your chart looks like.

28/7/07 8:51 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Moon is sextile Uranus in the 12th and the ASC which is Cancer.

28/7/07 8:52 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Here's another point. the Moon is response, so unless there are expressive characteristics, the feelings might stay inside.

Mars in libra can be very cooperative. It depends on survival needs. This Mars is said to get angry a lot, but it's not always so. My father rarely got angry and he had one. He's not competetive either.
Or rather, he wasn't.:-)

28/7/07 8:54 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Hmm, the Moon square Saturn in Leo in th 2nd. controlling emotions, perhaps to her detriment?

28/7/07 8:56 PM  
Blogger jm said...

July 18, 1948
Binghamton, NY
12:14 AM

Let me know what you think! You're getting good.

28/7/07 8:56 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There you go! Moon square Saturn. Repression.

perhaps to her detriment?

Yes. You really are getting the hang of it, joe. Saturn in Leo wants to express. She's afraid of the intensity I imagine. Saturn can be a huge block, as you well know. I'm going to go into the Moon-Saturn aspects.

She must express her feelings in some way, though. If you ponder it for awhile, you might see some interesting things.

28/7/07 9:00 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Well, you're having a good year with Jupiter transiting Sag, that's easily seen. The rest will have to wait til tomorrow. It's pushing 11pm here, so I gotta hit the hay.

28/7/07 9:01 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

With the expression of feelings that you're referring to, there's a lot of ground to be covered there.

This never ceases to be an amazing field of study. :o) Good night!

28/7/07 9:03 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Sweet dreams in that sweet-smelling hay!

I can't wait for your analysis. Don't labor over it. See what pops out first.

28/7/07 9:04 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Btw, dear kadimiros. What book was that?

28/7/07 9:14 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Here's a good example of this Aries-Libra combo.

Years ago in NYC I worked with a woman in her small out-of-home leather business. She was a Libra with a Moon in aries, I am Aries ASC with Mars in Libra.

We worked all night almost every night until dawn in her loft. Just the two of us. I cut the belts, vests, and bags, while she sat at the sewing machine and stitched them together with her little portable TV by her side.

I've never gotten along better with anyone. We were each in our own worlds enjoying our tasks and leaving each other alone. Very very comfortable.

28/7/07 9:22 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Oh, it was Planets In Youth, by Rob Hand. :-)

He says of Moon opposition Mars, "You either work against the person you are with, or you cooperate perfectly." He does suggest avoiding conflict (competitiveness, seeing challenge) by working alone. But he says that better yet is to find a perfect partnership with one of the few compatible persons, and have enough work to keep both partners completely occupied.

Of Mars in Libra, he says two different effects. He says usually strong sense of cooperation and willingness to compromise, but adds that some people with that placement are very competitive.

So either by sign or by house, he makes it sound like a toss-up with no in between.

28/7/07 11:12 PM  
Blogger jm said...

But he says that better yet is to find a perfect partnership with one of the few compatible persons, and have enough work to keep both partners completely occupied.

Exactly like me and my leather partner.

I think he misses the essence of Mars in Libra like most do.

Mars is the self. Libra is the other. With Mars in libra the person is acutely aware of identity all the time with the other, feeling its potential loss. So what happens is that the Mars very actively seeks relationship at the same time seeks the exit back to the self.

How this uniting with the self in relationship is achieved is where the variety comes in. Some push the other way, quarrels and all. Some go back and forth, compromising then resenting. Some are highly cooperative but resentful inside. The masters keep identity intact as they enter relationship and come to the best of sharing. This is what Mars in Libra really wants.

28/7/07 11:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is where the textbook astrologers and I part ways. A planetary placement means almost nothing specific. The universal can be found but the individual expression of the combinations is unpredictable and can even seem opposite from one to the next.

What I described above is the universal, which is rather simple if you look at each planet objectively. The gestalt is way more than each planet and house.

The orchestration with the whole chart reveals the story best, and that can be perceived. So the books are very limited although invaluable at first as a learning device.

I read Robert Hand's Planets in Transit occasionally but that is limited as well. Very ordinary and doesn't tell me much.

28/7/07 11:34 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Let's take my Mars in Libra. I have a SN in the 7th and Aries rising meaning a life lesson of identity and living for myself. So why do I have the ruler, selfish Mars back in compromising Libra a 0 degrees?

I obviously have to start at square 0 to relearn relationship with my desires paramount. I have to learn to get my way and stop compromising too much.

Other Mars in Libras have different needs according to the rest of the chart.

28/7/07 11:41 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Lets take joe's Mars in Libra.

He has Saturn in the 1st learning identity, same as me, so he, too, has to learn to balance the needs of others with his own, more emphasis on his own.

But he also has 3 other Libra planets and 2 in the 7th house. He has to compromise much more than I do. Very difficult with that 1st house Saturn.

He also has SN in Cancer so his Libra is teaching him to relate in a more mental equal way with people outside the family. More and more as he goes. Then the square to the Capricorn NN is complete maturity and sharing in relationship balancing everyone's needs accordingly, hinging on freedom from dependency on the family and emotional manipulations therein.

Many more relationship details than I have. Take me or leave me in my case. Not so for joe. He needs partnership more than I. So the Mars in Libra will behave differently.

28/7/07 11:53 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Yeah, those types of books are written to be general rather than synthesizing. Planets In Youth is addressed to children and youth. Psychological complexities in either book would exceed their intended scope and be confusing and unhelpful to their audience.

At one time, he was supposed to be writing a much more specialized and advanced book devoted to synthesis, but I don't believe he ever published it.

I try to take things with a grain of salt. Even in hard sciences, which are more empirically oriented, every conclusion is tentative. Even the laws of nature and physics could be subject to gradual change for all that anyone knows. Absolute objectivity may not be possible since observation appears to affect experimental results on the quantum level.

That allows me to play more loosely with ideas if I want to. :-)

29/7/07 12:29 AM  
Blogger jm said...

every conclusion is tentative.

A dictum.

29/7/07 1:48 AM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Well, jm, I can see how Venus and Uranus manifest in Gemini in the 3rd house of the mind, with your style of writing, love of beauty of both word and image, and unconventionality in mental ability and thoughts.

I obviously have to start at square 0 to relearn relationship with my desires paramount. I have to learn to get my way and stop compromising too much.

The way you put it makes perfect sense. The degree indicates how far along the native is in the process, then?

Lets take joe's Mars in Libra.
He has Saturn in the 1st learning identity, same as me,


Wait a sec, how are you learning identity? You have NN in Taurus in the 1st.

29/7/07 6:10 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Mars is the self. Libra is the other. With Mars in libra the person is acutely aware of identity all the time with the other, feeling its potential loss. So what happens is that the Mars very actively seeks relationship at the same time seeks the exit back to the self."

Actually, that isn't too dissimilar to what he wrote in Horoscope Symbols, which is a more demanding read.

He described at great length Mars as the individualizing force, and Libra as either "I vs. You" or "I and You" (it's arrived at the point in ego development where it tends to see relationships in terms of polarities), and he casually mentions that "Mars in Libra does not know whether to go it alone and live its way, or try to get along in a Libran manner."

There's a difference in tone in that he comes off as an observer, whereas you write like you have first-hand knowledge. :-)

Anyway, I've secretly suspected he's given up on the synthesis book. Well, let's see.

Ah, I found the explanation. Mystery solved. Very interesting. In an interview from years ago, he said:

"What happened was, my methodology started going through radical changes at that point. And it became impractical to write the book, because I would simply have had to repudiate it a couple of years later. And I don't think I'll ever write a book under that name -- but I think I will probably wind up dealing with the issue pretty well.

"One of the things which prevented Horoscope Synthesis from being written was when I realised how one does chart synthesis –- really how one does chart synthesis: You look at the chart, and you look at the chart, get familiar with all the components of the chart, and all of a sudden, bang! They come together.

"That's not teachable. It's an entirely intuitive process. An entirely intuitive process -- that's the key point. Any chart synthesis is going to be, to some extent, intuitive -- but there should be a little scaffolding for you to climb up, before you try to fly! Whereas the basic method of modern astrology, you're right down there on the ground -- if not down in the pit -- flying out. I'm not saying that people can't do it; I'm just saying that it's unteachable. People do it very well, or there wouldn't be any modern astrology. But it's a process that people learn by accident."

So...he ran up against the barrier you described not too long ago when you talked about how you questioned whether high level reading is teachable. You linked your amazing ability to read the chart well to being able see it in an intuitive way.

So now he's into translating ancient (really ancient -- not merely medieval) astrological texts containing "bombshell after bombshell" unknown to modern astrologers, because he believes that they contain lost teachable bits that will help build better scaffolding for modern astrologers, or at least moderate some bad habits. Some of the texts that moderns did already have from the ancients were full of misleading mistranslations. He says its more accurate to read the chart with an understanding of time as dynamic -- seeing "the person as the epitome of a moment in flux" as some ancient astrologers did, rather than in the static geometric way that moderns are taught. Like if Saturn retrogrades to aspect Venus just before Jupiter will, shortly after the nativity, then Venus is more Saturnine than Jovial but that isn't obvious from a static view where it would appear that Venus-Jupiter is the closer aspect. Supposedly, that radically alters the emphasis of that configuration. On the other hand, he says, "I say over and over again, I am not an antiquarian. I have no interest at all in having modern astrology be like fifteenth century astrology. Ancient and medieval astrology had a much better technical apparatus; but the interpretative apparatus of modern astrology, the symbolic apparatus, I think is superior."

I'm not sure what he means, but I'm glad he's having fun.

Eep. He blathers on about Greek quantization where individual degrees are distinct each from each other, the difference between diurnal and nocturnal planets, and a hundred other metaphysical things.

Well, I'm sure it'll be another few decades before we get all the goods.

I prefer intuition, myself. :-)

29/7/07 9:34 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Wait a sec, how are you learning identity? You have NN in Taurus in the 1st.

Ist house! Identity. Maybe not learning it so much as doing it with the node. Not the long and tedious training you have.:-)

This is very interesting joe. You picked the Venus-Uranus first. Highly astute.

If you look at my chart you'll see the grand fire trine starting with Aries. the V-U forms an opposition to the Sagittarius creating a kite formation.

The tip of the kite is the Sagittarius arrow going out into the universe. 9th house. But the bow is drawn at the Venus in Gemini point, the trigger to the whole action. Key point in my chart. You picked it up. Incredible.

29/7/07 2:07 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That's right. Rob's explanation of Mars-Libra, and believe it or not, succinctly and well-stated.

the point in ego development where it tends to see relationships in terms of polarities)

Correct.

You look at the chart, and you look at the chart, get familiar with all the components of the chart, and all of a sudden, bang! They come together.

"That's not teachable. It's an entirely intuitive process. An entirely intuitive process -- that's the key point.


Absolutey correct.

I'm not saying that people can't do it; I'm just saying that it's unteachable.

Important enough to repeat.

He blathers on

Well, yes. I saw him once and I remember only one thing he said in a long blathering lecture. That was, "Pisces on th MC is reaching for transcendence as a vocation".

People like Rob who make it complicated and over intellectualize usually have blocks to proving what they know successfully (Saturn in Sagittarius is like this and Mercury hardships, among other things), so they weave a complex web of intricate astrofacts to prove their advanced position. Some actually enjoy it and then it's worth the effort. Also, sometimes complexity is an escape and cover up for not really knowing asses from elbows.:-) But he does have a grasp, it seems.

Still the answers are there all the time, simply stated, and right in front of us. Astrological knowledge is useless with out translation and interpretation for usage, so this is a great achievement in itself. Explaining so people can undertand and go to work.

Trying to impress is fine as well, but unfortunately, "who really cares???"

What I've found is that when I get it right, I know it by a sensation I can't really describe. And it never needs outside verification.

29/7/07 2:24 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Oh that was easy. :o) I just decided to start at the beginning.

So the ASC with Leo and Sag is considered a grand fire trine. Did not put that together but I see it now.

Mercury in Cancer has me stumped for now. Sun/Cancer is easy enough. I see that Pluto and Saturn are conjunct in Leo. The two hardest taskmasters in the sign of leadership and performing. Is this why you have had the blocks to bringing your music to the public? There's a lot more to this but I need to study it more.

29/7/07 2:32 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Almost invariably, these folks take great knowledge and twist it, convolute it, and use far far far (:0) too many words to express it, losing the thread and the impact. They makes it a chore, painful for me, to follow. Many articles in Astroblogville do the same. This part I don't like, although it provides contrast so that when I come across a great communicator, I'm thrilled. It's a thing of great joy when something is written well, with each word having real relation to the next. I don't know if this can be learned either.

There is something in explanation that makes people nervous, like the teacher is coming with the red pen, or they are afraid people won't get it so they make it worse by overstating. The right words fail to come. Intuitive again.

29/7/07 2:32 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Oh! *ding ding ding* Sag, 9th house, travel, foreign lands, exotic locations. The Internet is about as exotic as you can get without actually blasting off into space. Wow. And with Jupiter in Sag at this time, you're really really expanding (hee!) your influence. Amazing.

I remember our discussion of the NN acting like a planet, so now the NN/1st house part makes more sense.

I will have to study the rest of it later on. maybe some flash of insight will come as I work on it subconsciously. :o)

29/7/07 2:40 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Yes yes yes joe. This is great!

And the question on the degrees... I think they are important evolutionarily and I'm in the midst of a study. The 0 degree and the 29th especially. No conclusions yet about the others.

Mercury in Cancer is amazing and I was going to do a post. Will try.

I see that Pluto and Saturn are conjunct in Leo. The two hardest taskmasters in the sign of leadership and performing. Is this why you have had the blocks to bringing your music to the public?

You know it. Man do you know it.

The Saturn in Leo is embarrassment in front of the public to the point of crippling and paralysis. Fear of exposure. The Pluto withholds and withholds afraid of the torrential intensity. But Pluto is regeneration which is why I never stop. The creativity is self perpetuating. Sometimes I wish I could turn it off!

Pluto adds emotional depth to my work and fear of its power in me. Saturn-Pluto together are magnificent powers of focus and concentration. So when I'm creative I hone in completely and put all of myself into the process. It's daunting but when I develop my ego enough, I'll be there. That's what it takes to be able to lead and perform with this configuration. I have to be able to handle it.

Also. I have had feelings that this Pluto-Saturn in the 5th could mean that I was murdered in a past life for expressing myself since the fears don't match the present situation and Pluto is involved. How can one be as talented as I am and so terrified?

Pluto wherever it falls in your chart is regenerative power, so you can always bank on it for energy.

More......

29/7/07 2:45 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Oh! *ding ding ding* Sag, 9th house, travel, foreign lands, exotic locations. The Internet is about as exotic as you can get without actually blasting off into space.

Ha ha ha ha ha!! I love it!!!!!!!!

It's true. Plus Sagittarius likes a football stadium full of friends and the Net is instant numbers!

Remember that Pluto just blasted my Jupiter so the expansion is rather large indeed.:-)

Absolutely wonderful, joe. Thank you.

29/7/07 2:48 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Well, yes. I saw him once and I remember only one thing he said in a long blathering lecture."

It's the "Curse of Knowledge"! Many scientists have that problem, I'm sure. He's extremely versed in the history, the maths, the relevant science, and the abstract metaphysics.

If he talks then it all pours out densely like a vast ball of yarn, and it takes effort for the listener to parse, especially coming from a dumbed down culture. It's all very organized and catalogued in his mind, I'm sure.

It's not as bad for writing, thankfully, because the written material gets refined through drafts, the writer can just brain dump his inspirations to it all start off, and there's an editor to give feedback.

29/7/07 2:57 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The Internet is about as exotic as you can get without actually blasting off into space. Wow. And with Jupiter in Sag at this time, you're really really expanding (hee!) your influence."

:-) I always thought the educational connections between the 3rd, 9th, and 5th were evocative in light of that starring role she had in that innovative class that her teacher put together and championed in school.

29/7/07 3:05 PM  
Blogger jm said...

the writer can just brain dump his inspirations

Ispirations?
We need waste removal along with those beloved editors.

OMG. Kadimiros. You are the best. My teacher. You are so right about the 3rd, 9th, and 5th, and now my Saturn return. OMG.
The ruling Jupiter of the 9th was in Aries that year in my 1st. Leadership. And saturn was in my 11th. Groups. What a great memory. One of the biggest moments of my life.

Thank you from my heart, solar plexus, and whatever chakra you choose, for this vote of confidence.
You are a pal.

29/7/07 3:21 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Also. I have had feelings that this Pluto-Saturn in the 5th could mean that I was murdered in a past life for expressing myself since the fears don't match the present situation and Pluto is involved. How can one be as talented as I am and so terrified?"

I thought Saturn could represent some sense of restriction there, too, perhaps from a prior lifetime. Maybe you release the energy of the configuration through the 3rd and the 9th houses and their resident planets.

Maybe the Pluto squares intensify and highlight your psychologically informed delvings into the Moon's Nodes. Anything that transits the Moon's Nodes will transit Pluto at nearly the same time.

29/7/07 3:22 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The ruling Jupiter of the 9th was in Aries that year in my 1st. Leadership. And saturn was in my 11th. Groups. What a great memory. One of the biggest moments of my life."

Oh, it's just wonderful that you have that experience. :-) That's interesting about the movement of Jupiter. I wouldn't have known that Jupiter was in Aries, though, I'm too impatient to get that deeply into charting things. You're the real astrologer -- ou'll be able to extract more detail than I can.

29/7/07 3:27 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The karmic reasons for the Saturn restrictions are a lot to think about.

It's a great thought: releasing the energy through the 3rd-9th. That certainly was the case in that English class.

The square to the nodes is the big story. I must release myself from the need for approval in the SN in order to reach my evolutionary maximum (Pluto) through the NN in the 1st (myself). Now you can see how the Mars in Libra fits in.

The Saturn restriction is there to slow the process enough for me to evolve in the best way and to point me to creative self expression as the practical route.

This is it! Synthesis and the way to read an astrological chart.

29/7/07 3:30 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's easy. Just look it up in the ephemeris to see where you really were in the past! Everytime I look back astrologically I learn something new. Today was a rather sizable revelation:-)

29/7/07 3:32 PM  
Blogger jm said...

OMG. Really.

29/7/07 3:33 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Well. The schema I use aligns Mercury to the 2nd chakra and by implication Gemini/3rd house, the Sun to the 3rd chakra and by implication the 5th house, and so on. In your case, since you have Aries rising, like the natural zodiac, it works out simply without complication.

First, it would be the 2nd chakra that has to do with basic level of give-and-take relationships and creativity, and has a Mercury emphasis in the system that I've used (not that other systems wouldn't work, too).

Since it's pretty much about peers, and Mercury is implicated through airy Gemini, I give it to the 3rd House.

Then, the 9th House would be Sagittarius and Jupiter. Many of the meanings of the 9th House and of Jupiter as religious teacher are an excellent fit to the esoteric side of the 5th chakra of soul expression powering the throat.

And the 5th House, the Sun, and Leo would be the solar plexus and the 3rd chakra that traditionally powers self-confidence and worldly identity, of course. The planets residing therein might have something to do with your interest in umbilical connections, too.

I don't know if anyone else does it in quite this way, and I haven't really thought it all through, but it seems workable in this case.

29/7/07 3:39 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Just look it up in the ephemeris to see where you really were in the past!"

Oh, my eyes glaze over at lists of numbers and longitudes. :-)

29/7/07 3:43 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That's fantastic kad. the Mercury connection is big and the throat.

Many of the meanings of the 9th House and of Jupiter as religious teacher are an excellent fit to the esoteric side of the 5th chakra of soul expression powering the throat.

Really really good.

So how do I master the Aries-Libra approval thing through this system?

29/7/07 3:45 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Oh, my eyes glaze over at lists of numbers and longitudes. :-)

LOL! you CAN glaze over that. Just look at planet, sign, and degree. Very very very simple. Too easy, really. That's likely the problem.

29/7/07 3:47 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I don't know if anyone else does it in quite this way, and I haven't really thought it all through, but it seems workable in this case."

I know the words don't make it clear, but it runs very simply through the zodiac, starting with Mars the warrior having influence at the 1st chakra, which is all about individual survival in the realm of the Earth element and the issues stemming from survival and being a grounded individual.

So it's signs and houses 1, 3, 5, 9, 11 (every odd number) corresponding to chakras 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, respectively.

I believe that it can be color-coded by the positions of the artists' color wheel overlaid onto the zodiac. Fire signs: Mars/Aries/red, Sun/Leo/yellow, Jupiter/sky blue/Sagittarius.

29/7/07 3:51 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I love the color codes and astrologers have been unable to come to an agreement on this.

29/7/07 4:01 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's true about the 5th, solar plexus, and my umbilical thing. Confidence connected to this makes sense as we're suddenly cut off from our physical source in just this region and have to go it alone. Very important body part. The instant of self recognition in the umbilical severance.

29/7/07 4:04 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"So how do I master the Aries-Libra approval thing through this system?"

Well, I'm sure there are all sorts of ways. I can only speak generally. I'll just try considering our recent topics.

In India the tantric yogis would probably use any of art, song, mantra, gemstones, ritual and invocations to deities, planetary consciousnesses and other entities. They actually focus specific sounds, songs, and their conscious attention on the centers they wish to work with.

There are sounds that resonate the solar plexus, then the attention going there to feel the echoing resonance in the silence as the center unfurls its microvortices and expands to release more of its vibrational force. The waveforms go out and change the reality one appears to inhabit. People respond differently, and even different physical events begin to happen. All of this is already natural process, but may operate at low power or be somehow cramped.

I once heard a yogi explain that according to the mythos he received in his spiritual education, there are several hundred thousand gods and goddesses indwelling in each person. He said the exact number of them could be symbolic, that part wasn't essential, but the point was to regard and treat ourselves and each other with great respect.

Another aspect of it was that these forces could be requested to assist us. It's part of what they do. They exist in a fashion at their own level of existence, and they also exist within human persons. Archetypes are there for us.

Traditionally, they have faces that are favorable to our conscious evolution, but won't act to override the conscious mind part of the personality unduly. So the important thing is to ask. And allow. And realize there is enormous power hidden in each person, unbeknownst to most. The limit may be one's belief and ability to consciously assimilate the amount of energy and degree of transformation. Then there is a response from within and without.

So this is where the exploration of the transformational therapists and other folks who work with archetypes and the "unconscious" comes in. It's not absolutely necessary to use traditional iconography, nor mystical religious perspectives, although that can be helpful (especially for those who have a cultural or past life affinity to them) as there has been enormous work put into inner dimensional forms and patterns by adept explorers of the human psyche.

Shamans have great direct access, tools, and existing cosmologies to draw upon in their work.

To a large extent, artists also already do it through their creative work. I suspect that the creative work could have stronger and more reaching effects, though, if the artist or culture began to realize what's possible.

Astrologers are generally doing it, too, but may not fully realize what they are doing, and are hampered by terminology, static tools, and ideas of objective forces and external determinism. Too passive, and looking at things as if they were inert or abstract. You get closer with the astrologers that attempt to draw inspiration from myth, although it seems to me that myth and astrology are each something in its own right, too, and needn't agree on everything.

An extended period of a course of study, the quest, that keeps in mind these levels of activity will naturally cause the impact of supporting astrological transits to be stronger and magnified when they happen during or at the end of the quest. Otherwise, I believe, their effects can be milder, less focused, and less conscious.

I think it's better for you to work very creatively, come up with your own stylizations and exercises, homework assignments conducted in the outer world, and perhaps talking with the inner playwright and a director would be helpful, or even putting yourself mentally into that role for a bit.

If you have acting ability, that would be a plus. You could find ways to adjust some of your brain and body's wiring, so to speak. Repeat applications will automatically thicken the appropriate portions of the brain. There will be some limits based on physical parameters that for practical purposes won't change (unless one trades in one's physical body for another model), but a lot can be done with what one already has.

I personally mentally reach for the positive connections in my solar plexus to a group of people, for example, if I have to make a presentation. I feel it get keyed, and the energy going through it, then I can step ahead into the room with positive expectation and confidence. Or, one time I felt energy shift rapidly about in the space of a room, and it took a few moments to find and settle into a workable pattern, as I held the intent that it would. Then I had a mental impression of a road, two people holding hands on it looking ahead. There was a psychic in the room at the same meeting, and she remarked that she felt the energy moving rapidly through the room and interweaving before settling down. She had also seen the road with two people on it. My impressions of energy movements, no matter how complex or definite, always match hers perfectly when she talks about them without my input, so I know there is some kind of shared reality to these things, albeit they may be telepathic constructs of our minds.

29/7/07 6:31 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Wow. That is a lot to contemplate, Kadimiros. How exciting.

29/7/07 6:47 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Another aspect of it was that these forces could be requested to assist us. It's part of what they do. They exist in a fashion at their own level of existence, and they also exist within human persons. Archetypes are there for us.

Absolutely. We created them for this purpose.

You get closer with the astrologers that attempt to draw inspiration from myth, although it seems to me that myth and astrology are each something in its own right, too, and needn't agree on everything.

I think this essential for astrology to be effective.

talking with the inner playwright and a director would be helpful

That's it!!!!!! Thank you kad!

know there is some kind of shared reality to these things, albeit they may be telepathic constructs of our minds.

That would be the best scenario.

29/7/07 6:57 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I can map it this way as I enter the room and take the stage. The director is there as always, and I know my part. The audience, rather than the Saturn perceived negative judge, has paid the ticket price and filled the room intending to relax and enjoy the show. They don't have to do anything. It's their leisure moment. The moment of judgement has already passed or the director would not allow it into production.

Excellent!

29/7/07 7:02 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is perfect because I have an event coming up this weekend.

29/7/07 7:03 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Onward we go. Mercury in Cancer in the 3rd house. Double communicator. Communications in the house of communications, possibly with a preference for doing so from the safety of home? Or communicating in a nuturing, supportive manner, in tandem with the Venus and Uranus?
Am I close?

29/7/07 7:08 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

We've already discussed Mars at 0 Libra. Neptune... hmm. I'm a little confused on that one (which is apropos, since Neptune favors the fuzzies!). I'll have to come back to it.

29/7/07 7:15 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The moment of judgement has already passed or the director would not allow it into production."

Very, very good. :-) You already knew that he's a key figure for you, for some reason. It's just a matter of extrapolating what can happen next with that.

You can let him take some of the responsibility for results. It doesn't have to be perfect, the environment and the audience don't have to be perfect, it's really just your inner response that you want to direct well whatever happens in life around you, whether harmony or discord.

Mostly its harmony, most of us just don't appreciate it as well as we might.

The director can also offer guidance and direction. Some people do this by relaxing into mental dialogue with him. Others through dream figures, or creative writing, or nonverbal means.

It's just being creative. The resources of life are like an artist's palette. The planets and signs are like mixtures of light and color.

29/7/07 7:20 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

The resources of life are like an artist's palette. The planets and signs are like mixtures of light and color.

OMG, that is excellent! I'll have to remember this.

29/7/07 7:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe I love the topic of Merc in Cancer, one of my best and worst traits.

possibly with a preference for doing so from the safety of home?

LOL!!! Are you right??

Or communicating in a nuturing, supportive manner

No doubt about that.
This is just too much. It makes me want to go through each and every placement. Do we have time?

Mercury is the uptake of sense impressions and Cancer is sensitivity to stimuli and the personal moon. So here the native feels everything that comes in. And I mean feels. It can be awful, but it makes for a fabulous musician and poet.

I take everything personally with the Cancer so a bad sensation feels like it was meant to personally torture me. the motorcycles? they make me cry. So the world is overwhelming to a Merc in Cancer but when not painful, it is sublimely beautiful.

Another thing is the Cancer imagination, So when something is described, I feel it. If someone says a knife has stabbed a person, say in a story, I feel it. I smell the blood. So I have to guard the content of what comes in like a hawk. We simply cannot make the distinction between it and our inner world of feeling.

29/7/07 7:33 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The Neptune-Mars is a whole book.

29/7/07 7:34 PM  
Blogger meristem said...

Mercury is the uptake of sense impressions and Cancer is sensitivity to stimuli and the personal moon. So here the native feels everything that comes in. And I mean feels. It can be awful, but it makes for a fabulous musician and poet.

I take everything personally with the Cancer so a bad sensation feels like it was meant to personally torture me. the motorcycles? they make me cry. So the world is overwhelming to a Merc in Cancer but when not painful, it is sublimely beautiful.

Another thing is the Cancer imagination, So when something is described, I feel it. If someone says a knife has stabbed a person, say in a story, I feel it. I smell the blood. So I have to guard the content of what comes in like a hawk. We simply cannot make the distinction between it and our inner world of feeling.


OMG. I can relate to ALL of this... Wow. So well put...

29/7/07 7:37 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Yes, and I am thrilled!! The judgement idea. From the start with meristem through all of our discourse I found the director and I know I've got it. Saturn in Leo return.

You can let him take some of the responsibility for results. It doesn't have to be perfect, the environment and the audience don't have to be perfect

This is very very very important. It had been my downfall every time. Let the director do it. He's been hired and he's good.

Some people do this by relaxing into mental dialogue with him.

This will probably be he choice. The main thing is that he's real to me now and I can begin. I can go onstage. Very exciting, this is. Scheeeze.

29/7/07 7:40 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Meristem!! Your Aries moon with all the Virgo. Same thing. It feels so good to put it into writing.

29/7/07 7:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Meristem, because of this I've never read horror stories, mysteries, or gone to horror movies. I "really" get scared. My "friend" made me watch Alien with the crowd once and I'd like to delete it from memory. The Blob was manageable though. In the years befor it got graphic.

29/7/07 7:47 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"OMG, that is excellent! I'll have to remember this."

Your creative projects with your eggs flashed into my mind's eye, as I wrote it. :-)

29/7/07 8:03 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Mercury is the uptake of sense impressions and Cancer is sensitivity to stimuli and the personal moon. So here the native feels everything that comes in. And I mean feels. It can be awful, but it makes for a fabulous musician and poet."

And you feel you have to process it mentally. Not everyone does, you know. :-)

29/7/07 8:06 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That's true. The mental processing of feelings, just to make sure we feel it. This is probably the poetic skill.

29/7/07 8:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It probably also accounts for the watery flow of my writing.

29/7/07 8:12 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Let's put it this way.
Mars in libra likes for everyone to agree with them while they disagree with everyone else.

And joe! I'm impressed. You know more than you know, n'est-ce pas??

29/7/07 10:20 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Mars in libra likes for everyone to agree with them while they disagree with everyone else."

Hahaha!!! So, could make for an art critic's talent.

Well, okay. You said it. I will not now dare to not agree. :-)

29/7/07 10:44 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I dare you to not agree!!!

Oh what would you know about this! You've only got a Sun-Venus-Mars conjunction. Trine Pluto. My lips are sealed.

Can't win for winning around here.

29/7/07 11:43 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Or to put it in the words of a Greek character in a book I read once, not terribly fluent in English; "My lips are seals."

29/7/07 11:55 PM  
Blogger meristem said...

"My lips are seals."

mine too

heeheehee :)

30/7/07 6:31 AM  
Blogger meristem said...

Yes, JM, when someone talks about falling down the stairs or that time they broke their wrist and this is how it happened, I wince because I feel it in my own body. And gore-horror for the same reason. Psych horror like Hitchcock is good, though not really horrific, just thrilling, which is better; I don't enjoy feeling horrified anyway.

30/7/07 6:37 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Okay, let's say Mercury in Cancer is a natural psychologist, then. :-)

30/7/07 10:50 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I wince because I feel it in my own body

Exactly.

I don't enjoy feeling horrified anyway.

I get enough of that in everyday life. I've always been perplexed by this craving among the people. The attachment to intense fear. My theory is that their lives lack sensation. They're bored and hook on to these dramas. Maybe Merc in Cancer and things like this feel more sensation so need this stimulation less.

I do know that I sense an overall boredom in others unless a horror is underway that rivets their attention. All their survival mechanisms. I'm convinced they like the sensation of fear. If no real drama is occurring they go for the false ones via TV, movies, etc.

Maybe the ancient survival mechanism gone astray since we have fewer immediate survival threats.

30/7/07 2:05 PM  
Blogger jm said...

"Natural psychologist".

Makes sense actually. Mental experience of feelings. Not necessarily accurate, though. Analysis maybe is a way to diminish the pure sensation, or justify it.

I know I try to analyze and find the source of every pain I feel.

30/7/07 2:08 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Maybe the ancient survival mechanism gone astray since we have fewer immediate survival threats.

There's probably more truth in that than you know. Our bodies, evolutionarily speaking, are much the same as they were 10,000 years ago. Modern foods (and phake phoods), and modern technology are so new and coming at us so fast that the body has no clue what to do with them or how to filter them out.

30/7/07 2:50 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I know you're right joe. Evolution has to catch up. I think the ancient predatory instinct is part of the problem. Club your animal and eat it is a lot easier than the 1000 components of the modern day meal with all the distractions whilst ingesting it.

Even the utensils we use have primitive allusions yet they don't have all the fear, thrust, adrenalin, blood, etc. so obviously attached. The impulses have to go somewhere.

Modern eating habits are something. No wonder the world is sick.
I do better eating alone and I gawk sometimes at the social interactions around food intake, many not paying attention to what they're doing.

I've seen many Virgos, however, eat slowly with mindfulness.

30/7/07 3:11 PM  
Blogger Nathan said...

May I offer an approach to stage jitters that has worked for me? It is something I learned to do as an actor, but could work for anyone performing. It also is a technique that requires some mastery over your emotional expression, which is something you appear to do very well, JM.

When you experience nervousness before going on stage, think about the emotion you will express during your performance. This requires that you have a clear idea what those emotions are. If you are uncertain about them don't try this technique until you are aware, otherwise the nervous emotion can overwhelm the ones you intend for your performance.

Once you have a clear idea of the emotion you are expressing, mentally tie the nervous feeling to that performance emotion. This should free your mind to allow you to focus on the details of your performance, instead of how you are feeling before going on stage. If not, concentrate on the expressed emotion and do the mental tying again until you can think about the other aspects of your performance.

When you go on stage, think about that emotion that you are expressing whenever you feel the jitters rising. It is a good idea to tie them to an emotion that you will express early in the performance so that the nervous energy will be expressed through this emotion, lend it strength and leave your body instead of becoming an obstacle. You may find that expressing your nervousness this way will relax you enough through the rest of the performance, but if it comes back just do the same thing, tie it to whatever you are expressing at the time and it will add strength to your performance. Once you have done this successfully a few times it can become natural to do whenever you feel anxious.

1/8/07 5:00 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Nathan thank you so much. I was thinking of taking acting lessons but I don't know if fitting into others' systems will do the trick or not.

I'll try this. The whole point is to focus on the performance, not the audience, and this could do it.

think about the emotion you will express during your performance. This requires that you have a clear idea what those emotions are.

This is one problem. I am reluctant to do the heavy emotional tragic ones, thinking I prefer the more whimsical style, and they are hard to combine. I'm still thinking it through. Maybe a quick meditation on the feeling of each song would work as I go. This is food for thought. A centering technique. I know I need one. I must leave the audience alone in a sense, and concentrate on myself.

I've done a little of that in the last few days and the results are quite amazing. Finding the feeling of each essay as the most important thing and give it my full attention. The rest will follow. Good idea.

1/8/07 5:22 PM  

<< Home