Criticism and Correction
Requirements of Democracy
"How are you guys? Good to see you." Those were the words of Barack Obama, the next president of the United States when formally meeting with his predecessors. Incorrect. I realize he's frightened and nervous - Who wouldn't be? - but the cocky kid persona is ridiculously inappropriate for the occasion and indicative of the path ahead. He has Saturn retrograde in Capricorn and a long journey through his life trying to deal with the systems he gets entrapped within. Learning how to relate to the establishment is a large part of his destiny and he's just getting started.
It's been said that people should wait and see what he does. But isn't that just the reactive stance that got us here? His magnificent achievement in getting elected as the first American president of African descent should not be underestimated, and he will go down in history. But Obama has a lot to learn and it's not too soon to get started. If society begins the task, carefully criticizing immediately, the people can shape the young man as he grows and could influence the path the country takes at this difficult time. The decaying system will have to give way as Pluto transits Capricorn, nothing is impervious to energy and force. How it's directed tells the tale.
The nation, as usual, with her four Cancer planets, is hoping for the next leader to magically take care of her problems and be the parent she always craves. However, Pluto in Capricorn is about to spend a generation opposite these planets urging the people to wiggle out of the parent-child relationship and become adult citizens, and even ideally to take the parental role themselves. One of the requirements of democracy is that people make accurate and excellent analyses of their leaders on an ongoing basis. The idea is to learn to avoid the extreme fear of authority, the insane conspiracy beliefs, the escape altogether from responsible assessment, the creation of the omnipotent parent, and the blind worship of iconic figures. A mature relationship with the government is a birthright of this country with her natal Pluto in Capricorn and Saturn in Libra in the 10th house. An amazing opportunity has presented itself now, and maybe it won't be missed. There could be great agitation as a prelude, though, and an increase in the childish tantrum mode the country is so accustomed to. Courage in confronting the leadership is the best tool. We elected them, after all. They work for us. And god knows, we pay them well on top of their stealing.
The last time Uranus was in Aries, Pluto was in Cancer and the leader at the end, Franklin D. Roosevelt, was one of the most worshipped parental figures in history. Pictures of him hung on the walls of American homes countrywide. What he said, they did. But this time, with Pluto in Capricorn, I think a reversal might be in order. The young president is inexperienced, a child himself, so what better time to learn than now? Obama won't get there without our direction. And he's scheduled to grow up, too, with Pluto transiting opposite his Cancer Venus in the 5th. His acquiescence to (fear of) the status quo is another large part of the problem and that should be soundly addressed as well. Without time and hard earned lessons, Saturn in Capricorn does not feel confident in the seat of power no matter how much he appears otherwise. The commoners are also on the road to the seat of power through trial, error, and correction.
The problems of a lifetime since this country was born won't be leaving with George Bush and won't be solved by the next man. The first place she'll be tested is when Pluto comes to Venus and Jupiter and the Cancer-Capricorn, child-adult lessons begin in earnest. The sooner the people face their discontent, the sooner the repairs can come, and one of the biggest problems is the juvenile need for entertainment and cheap drama which the sorry cast of political characters is all too eager to act out. Venus covers most of the USA fifth house of fun and games, and rules the 10th house of the executive, so the time has arrived to reach out for Capricorn discipline. It's not a joke anymore. The South Node is in Leo in both the Congressional charts and the inaugural one, with Saturn in the 5th of the inaugural, and the start of the session was an infantile circus once again, as is often the case with the melodramatic Leo SN. People are still saying how much fun all the fights between the parties are going to be, along with the exciting intrigues and personal agonies. Other people are hurting for real and want a better government.
Soon the North Node goes into Capricorn and the South into Cancer, and there will be no better time in the world for the country to take a look at her childish behavior and make her decisions. There will be a major conjunction in Capricorn in 2020 which could yield good results in this department if the work is begun now and the tone gets serious. The people need to take charge of this government. Or wait another 250 years. Either way. Responsible criticism if applied consistently can prevent more severe forms of punishment down the road, which seldom work, once the behaviors are so ingrained. Mold now while you can. No cocky kids in the White House unless they're pre-pubescent.
posted by jm at 1:01 AM
38 Comments:
My mother just called and told me that there are fires in your part of the world. First thought was of you, just want to let you know how much i care for you
Stay safe and healthy. (and your spiders too!)
This is an excellent and wise post.
I totally disagree with you. That man has the most difficult job on the planet and you are worried about how he addressed those past Presidents????? He has probably been putting in long, long hours trying to put together a plan to save our asses. And guess who put us all in this situation. Those other dudes! Hello? He should have said something way more disrespectful in my opinion.
The fires are further north so we're safe. Spiders are fine and they thank you!
Anon, look. I knew there would be some that would be upset but it's symbolic of problems we have to face if you really want your ass saved. Being disrespectful is not the answer in a situation like this. I'm glad you spoke up.
Yes I'm worried about how he behaves since he's doing the bidding of those that got your ass in this situation and we have a long way to go to get out. The sooner you realize this the better and it's indicative of the childish attitude this post is about.
All the screaming about George Bush accomplishes nothing and if you think he's the reason for our country's troubles, you are mistaken. Nothing against hating him if you must, but it covers up the real source of our problems and all of us would like an improvement. You are in the majority and all that energy used up in hate and fear could be used productively to help shape our future.
You can be disrespectful but our president should not be. Doesn't he talk about crossing divides? Don't you believe him? Do you trust him? Do you think if he acted like a child you would trust him more? We just had a child in the presidency.
The plan he's putting togther is looking more and more like something to save the asses of big business.
I understand your anger, a lot of people feel it, but the problems are deep and won't be easy to solve unless we change ourselves first, let the immediate past go, not swallow everything the leaders tell us to, and try to help the new one be as good as he can be, and that includes criticism. I agree with you. He has a difficult job.
I'm glad you care so much. That's been one of our society's problems and if we stay together on this we'll do it.
"How are you guys? Good to see you" It just sounds like making conversation to me. I didn't hear him say it or watch coverage though so I'm not sure I have it right. It just sounds like he's a little less formal than some of us are used to in a president. At my work, even when serious business is being attended to, our greetings are light and sometimes we're dealing with each other in a joking tone in the beginnings before we get focused. We remind ourselves we are all human and then bear down. There's almost always time for humor.
That event wasn't the point. In itself it's no big deal. It's the larger picture and the rest of the post is the important part. I should've bypassed it, but hey? Why not say it? Most disagree with me but that's probably a good sign.
You bring up a good point, mpk. Less formal, yes, but Saturn in Capricorn is learning to be more formal and less intimate. It's Capricorn time. But he was just nervous.
That's the problem. People fixate on one thing and miss the point.
Most people know I wanted very much to get Obama elected and I'm glad he was. But I also was very very much opposed to the choice of people for his administration. He's caught in the relentless system, though, and he had to work with what's there. It's dictating to him at this point. I also feel he didn't make these choices but was ordered to. That system is not concerned with most people's interests, and it's no one in particular's fault.
So what can we do? What exactly do you want from your government? Obama can't do it. Big business is so entrenched in the system that the unlocking is complicated and will take time if it can be done.
Take the tobacco industry. They started out by rolling 4 cigarettes per minute by hand. Then a machine was invented that rolled 200. That's how exponential growth is and how greed takes hold. The government also is involved in the weapon and drug business so how do you expect a solution there when your leaders are raking in their profits? Could you turn your back just like that on big bucks?
They toss the people crumbs for votes and now the next election is as good as here, the amount of money involved too staggering too calculate and growing still.
So back to my simple question. What can we do? Depending on one man to take care of it is bordering the realm of psychosis in my view. The inner voice of people doubts that it's possible regardless of how much they say they want to believe or how much he wants to change things. They might change but only with many variable factors taken into consideration. And not for awhile. So why keep going down the garden path? Where is the non-laziness required to actually put some energy into participating rather than waiting to see what he does. Why not get on top of things?
I agree with most that the next administration is an improvement over the last, but the underlying structure is the same and that's where the source of our country's problems is.
Honesty with ourselves as citizens is the start. Opinions will vary widely. Facts should be studied if they can be located.
Go back and read the post and see what I'm really saying. This conversation bears it out.
The idea is to learn to avoid the extreme fear of authority, the insane conspiracy beliefs, the escape altogether from responsible assessment, the creation of the omnipotent parent, and the blind worship of iconic figures. A mature relationship with the government is a birthright of this country with her natal Pluto in Capricorn and Saturn in Libra in the 10th house.
The local and I think national news is now all wound up about the killing of the young unarmed black man by a policeman here in the Bay Area. Oakland residents then proceeded to riot and burn local businesses, cars, vandalize and destroy within their own community. Obviously the policeman should be prosecuted but the reaction is completely infantile. Oakland has one of the highest homicide rates in the US and almost all of it is black men killing other black men. Last year a stray bullet paralyzed a child taking piano lessons. No protests then. I'm watching all this unfold with some incredulity. "Authority" has nothing to do with these people's problems. Their complicity in their own fate is nearly total. The media whips up storm of biased reporting focusing on the victim but the big picture of systemic and tolerated violence and decay within that community is swept under the rug. It's easier to pick a scapegoat and let the havoc continue.
a long journey through his life trying to deal with the systems he gets entrapped within. Learning how to relate to the establishment is a large part of his destiny and he's just getting started.
Well, that's exactly how he grew up, from the description in Dreams From My Father. He got dumped into social systems not of his choosing, and figured out how to function. Possibly this IS his "adulthood threshold," where he becomes an empowered Creator and not just an Adjustor.
One of the requirements of democracy is that people make accurate and excellent analyses of their leaders on an ongoing basis.
We can only pray. “Accurate” and “excellent” most of it ain’t. “Silly” and “resentful,” I’d call it. Drama queen-ish. Sigh.
... Roosevelt, was one of the most worshipped parental figures in history.
Also one of the most hated.
Without time and hard earned lessons, Saturn in Capricorn does not feel confident in the seat of power no matter how much he appears otherwise.
Testify.
The commoners are also on the road to the seat of power through trial, error, and correction.
One of my mystical friends has powerful memories of being Louis XIV. Wig, shoes, furniture, absolute authority, everything. Now he’s a gay man in Seattle, working in customer service for a department store. He stood in his apartment building’s laundry one night and cried out to his guides (internally), “If I was once that, and have all that within me, why am I standing in a basement ironing a shirt?” The guides replied, “Look at today’s leaders. There are no great ones like you were, because it is time for the smaller people to learn how to lead themselves.” He was at peace with that.
one of the biggest problems is the juvenile need for entertainment and cheap drama which the sorry cast of political characters is all too eager to act out.
Oh dear God yes. The Entertainment Demons.
No cocky kids in the White House unless they're pre-pubescent.
That job is taken, thank you. Her name’s Sasha. Sweeeeeeeeet!
Interesting mpk. Could be a sign of the social frustration building. Jobs are decreasing and the whole syndrome is getting ready to roll. Pressures always blow.
We're going to see a big surge in the infantile in many ways, I think as the transit comes in. You can see it now with the new president. Nothing I say will change their expectations of a parent coming to take care of them.
The battle with authority can't be avoided with Pluto in Cap square Uranus. As jobs get scarce, the big businesses get more power and people have less say. Then the labor struggle mounts. Lots of adjustments ahead. These people's problems might not be authority directly, but more the white man's system that has excluded them from long ago and also created the inner city problem with their illegalization of drugs which was racially motivated. They aren't treated equally by the authorities, but the problems are vast and complex.
Instead of throwing more money into politicians and bailouts and all the other fun and games, we one day might put a little into solving social problems and not leave it entirely to the churches.
The media whips up storm of biased reporting focusing on the victim but the big picture of systemic and tolerated violence and decay within that community is swept under the rug. It's easier to pick a scapegoat and let the havoc continue.
Well said. These are the real problems our society has and no one wants to face it. We'll never solve it until we get to the source.
Good info yesh. There's a lot to it. Saturn in Capricorn wants to be accepted by the upper classes. The rise in life. (Not all, though, but he's one). The guy who hopes he's eating his soup right at the elegant dinner. He wants on board the yachts and all but in the end, not really. Saturn in the 12th is a spiritual destiny and Pluto is headed there but he's going to get knocked about by the system on the way. It will be interesting. He's got to go though it to get out. Political power is not it. Hard times ahead with Jupiter in his 1st and freedom urges with the new establishment trap.
We can only pray. “Accurate” and “excellent” most of it ain’t. “Silly” and “resentful,” I’d call it. Drama queen-ish. Sigh.
Hallelujah sister. You said it.
There are no great ones like you were, because it is time for the smaller people to learn how to lead themselves.” He was at peace with that.
Interesting yesh. Very interesting.
HA HA! The entertainment demons! Yup. I did unleash on that one! And you are right about Sasha!
I realize people in general won't recognize their position, but the thing is this ...
We are Obama's leader just as much as he is ours.
You don't have to wait and try to figure out if he's good or bad or what will happen. That's the whole universe's creation, in realtime. Trust what you can. Make it what you will. He's it for the next several years, good and bad. Just one of the guys.
Everyone's in charge on this ship.
These people's problems might not be authority directly, but more the white man's system that has excluded them from long ago and also created the inner city problem with their illegalization of drugs which was racially motivated.
In this area no one is excluded by race from success. The Bay Area is incredibly diverse. I work with black men who are from here and they've had every opportunity for success and they've taken it. Going to community college in CA is nearly free for residents. I don't think the inner city problem with drugs has anything do with race anymore, at least not in this part of the country. The infantile spectacle that is inner city Oakland in the midst of an area with incredible opportunities for all leaves me scratching my head. Who is the enemy they are fighting? It's not the cops. It's themselves and their refusal to take charge of their own lives. The cops get the shaft if they don't get involved and then they get it if they do. The police force is diverse as well, it's not all white folks. What a job. I'd never want it. Anyway, I think what people are thinking of as the oppression of authority isn't the problem. Maybe the situation has changed, but some are unable or refuse to acknowledge that the doors are open. I've noticed a large backlash by the Oakland community against the protesters.
Heck it's been an infantile situation since the inception of the US. A kid sees something that he wants that another person has, then has a tantrum and goes as far as to physically take the other persons property. He also prays to a "father" to bless him for what he's just done. And the US has been doing that ever since. It knows nothing but infantile behavior.
Isn't that the truth. And we're seeing it again in Israel's aggression against Gaza. Did you know that Gaza has gas and oil fields off the coast of the Gaza Strip? Israel wants that oil and they're determined to remove the inhabitants from it to get that oil.
Same as it ever was, just as with the European settlers and the Native people here in the US.
Who is the enemy they are fighting? It's not the cops. It's themselves and their refusal to take charge of their own lives.
That applies to everyone mpk, and very very few can internalize the knowledge. The hatred of Bush is a case in point. Or the Republicans for godsake! The more people perceive an authority like that oppressing them, the more they complain escalating as it continues to mask their own failures. So many opportunities missed to receive knowledge.
Even people who have good jobs and all the other delights are oppressed in some areas, so these people you see fighting are probably reminding you of some trap you, yourself, would like to break free from and can't.
We're all confined in some way and as groups we form an enemy we can hook it on, such as fighting over land, and never face the inner authority that is inside of us all constricting and relaxing, trying to guide us to our own destinies.
That's what Pluto is trying to get at in Capricorn.
In my case I rail against society but is it really the public's fault? Of course not. It's my own wall inside myself that keeps me from the things I might like in the world.
I think what people are thinking of as the oppression of authority isn't the problem.
It's exactly the problem. It's just naming the authority, as I said. When people group together like that they are fighting different authorities but hooking it onto a common one. Many of the people protesting the protesters are largely hiding from their own lack of desire to find freedom. They'd rather shop, overeat, and do the things they normally do, avoiding their traps until it gets unbearable. Then they get divorced or something like that and walk back into them.
I think this is one of the most important aspects of living and why we keep getting bad governments. We naturally feel oppressed by the universe, not knowing what's out there, who's in charge, where we're headed, afraid of death, afraid of life, afraid of the elements, afraid of on another, and more. Always blaming the other.
So occasionally it explodes in violent rage that in no way can be accurately identified.
If it's speaking to you and distrubing you more than ususal, then it's triggering an identification in you. Same with me and this political horror. It's a way to get at my own horror.
Violence goes on all the time and will continue to. You carve your own path around it and meet with it when you need it for some purpose. You can't figure it out, as in the case of Oakland, because it's made up of individuals, each with different reasons for getting involved.
I think of it mostly as pressure release, like weather patterns, plate shifts, exploding stars, and all other phenomena in the universe attempting to maintain equilibrium od whatever it takes to survive. We're too involved in it to understand. I'll repeat the most important question I know. I wish everyone would ask it continually:
Who is the enemy they are fighting? It's not the cops. It's themselves and their refusal to take charge of their own lives.
And the answer.
I am encouraged.
Yes it's the truth! Thank you msfullroller.
Heck it's been an infantile situation since the inception of the US.
Look at the playground. Look at every family. Oh how I wish we all could face it. Why on earth do we feel so deprived?
He also prays to a "father" to bless him for what he's just done.
Or blames one for all his discomfort. I am so weary of the infantile and the trap is being laid again now that the bad father is going. How can people endure themselves? That part of life does amaze me.
Same as it ever was, just as with the European settlers and the Native people here in the US.
What can we do? Banner headlines and round the clock news orgies aren't working.
Same thing with pipelines in Afghanistan but somehow it's OK this time.
I know, it's strange how sometimes it's ok and sometimes it's not. Who decides? Maybe the profit decides.
It's not just the infantile grabbing that can be seen in humans from early on. It's also the cruelty, seemingly gratuitous, as the kids gang up on one another, taunt, tease, and worse, and ostracize with glee inventing new tortures all the time. Sometimes they get along beautifully and then warfare erupts. It's the way we are.
I can only conclude that the conditions of life at present require humans to be this way. But just the fact that we can perceive a more harmonious existence tells me that it might be one day within reach.
I go back to my idea that we can live side by side with the downsides, elevating the good as best we can and not get dragged into the evil. It probably doesn't dominate as much as people think it does. But it won't disappear, so that part of our nature has to be allowed while we continue to try and apply ethics. That's why evolution is suspect. We're in the same place, or moving so slowly that no on can perceive it.
Pluto through Sagittarius has once again exposed the failure of religion, but also the urge to do right, so now we can try something else. Apparently God wasn't impressed, so where do we go now?
Maybe we should go back to start. "I'll give you a cookie if you're nice."
C'mon wind. Talk to me.
I know, it's strange how sometimes it's ok and sometimes it's not. Who decides? Maybe the profit decides.
New guy good. Old guy bad. New guy kill. OK.
Old new Native American philosophy.
Who decides?
The zillion dollar question. You get the pipeline for the right answer.
Hey!!!! At least we're in synch! So we are in this together. Is that good or bad?
I like Cs & Ls. Good bunch over there. Sensible.
Joe, the Full Moon in Cancer is bringing this infanticrap up. Just wait 'till the SN gets there for a year and a half.
HA HA! The SN across the US stellium. The Congressional nursery school will be in session. George Bush will continue to be obsessed about. And the new parent will arouse some WAAAAAAHS.
See. It's easy to predict.
awfully similar to the riots in greece with the kid that got killed by the police. and the inevitable student riot of 68'-69' connection...
I still haven't gotten a valid explanation about what the greeks were protesting against.
There could be a stirring in the youth that's just beginning to crack the surface with Uranus in Aries so close. These incidents are exactly that. Pluto in authoritarian Capricorn square Uranus in Aries, youth and rebellion. It should be worldwide and could take many forms. But these two incidents are so precise. I'm glad you brought this up elena. I do see a connection. The young in our country are facing economic disaster just as they're entering the job market after expensive educations. The establishment is decayed and nervous.
This sheds more light on mpk's reports and why he's noticed it so much.
The young in our country are facing economic disaster just as they're entering the job market after expensive educations. The establishment is decayed and nervous.
Does Uranus represent youth? Saturn is obviously the establishment. Didn't those two planets oppose one another in the counter-cultural 60's? If so, it's going to be interesting all over again.
A lot of growing up to be done.
The entrance. Policeman killing a youth. So it indicates that an uprising among them is the way to do the job Pluto has in store for the authorities, among other jobs elsewhere.
Very interesting. Mars (youth and violence) is in Capricorn (police).
Saturn (authority) is slowing down and going retrograde and Mercury is backing up and headed there for a long gaze at the thing.
It's fantastic how we can figure it out putting our minds togther. This is great. More than I could do alone.
Does Uranus represent youth? Saturn is obviously the establishment. Didn't those two planets oppose one another in the counter-cultural 60's? If so, it's going to be interesting all over again.
Yes. Same opposition, planets reversed in signs. Uranus is rebellion and Aries is youth and everything Uranian and Saturnian now is leading into the upcoming Pluto-Uranus square, Saturn making a T-square.
Here's something to look forward to.:-) The next opposition is the same as the 60s, Pisces-Virgo, but the 3rd is exactly when Uranus goes into Aries. Saturn in Libra opposite Uranus in Aries. With Pluto in Cap we have some serious war and peace issues with authority. Cardinal signs usually do something active about it.
Thanks mpk, joe, and elena. Some of my feelings are getting verification and the picture is coming into focus. I have the same stuff happening with Aries rising and Pluto square my Mars-Uranus now, so I'm perked up.
Another thing is the generation entering the system. Uranus in Capricorn! Pluto in Scorpio. What a stew.
So they'll revolutionize the business system in an obsessively discerning and possibly sexualized manner?
HA HA! You're getting it joe. Or they'll get high and blow it up! Neptune's in Capricorn, too, so it could go many ways. I always looked at this generation as particularly savvy.
It's so fascinating that they will be just coming in at the Uranus in Aries square. They could bring new ideas about money and investments (Scorpio), but it does look like change could be ahead. I think the economic decline might have to be severe, though.
What to do about the aging and dying will be coming up and the health care charade that this country keeps playing. Scorpio handles the dead, inheritance taxes, and things like that. But these kids have to get in there and spend time before any influence will be felt. Scorpio cuts through the crap so maybe way ahead, the financial system will come out all right. But from here to there ... anything goes.
These are all your areas of concern with Jupiter and the NN in Cap in the 8th. Scorp Sun. Aquarius MC is how to benefit society with finance reform, bringing the personal love of the 5th house stellium into public application. We really do need more caring people on the public stage. If it hurts enough, maybe it happens. Might get worse first. The new guy is falling right into step behind Israel. Don't you just love our foreign policy? We really need to refrain from following them hook, line, and sinker. Oh wait .. we're already sunk. How low will it go? Just low enough.
The Obama Plan is now swinging round to more tax cuts for the wealthy. Have I experienced that recently? Am I confused? He says it's so the Republicans will approve. Well yes. We must get their approval. Did I vote for a Democrat? I'm so confused.
I'm going to pray for pennies from heaven, consult the witch doctor for health care, start eating wildflowers and herbs, and hope the foxes in the neighborhood provide security. Survival is easy.
These are all your areas of concern with Jupiter and the NN in Cap in the 8th.
You know, for someone who kinda sorta hates to be the center of attention, it does seem like I'm going to have to play some major role in my immediate surroundings in the next 16 years. I have the sneaking suspicion that these 16 years may bring a lot of death, inheritances and taxes my way.
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