Salvation
There is a forgiving and redemptive something in life. We all know that. It seems, though, that the elements of judgement and justice have to operate, too, in order to achieve this sublime state of grace. Many people are hoping the criminals of the past receive punishment, but what they're forgetting is that to be redeemed, the sword of justice must come around to them too. No one escapes. In that way, the whole collective can experience some mercy. And only then. Everyone is guilty of a lot. With every accusation you make, you can expect one in return. Fair is fair. In total, we're all guilty of everything.
And so come these puzzles with the arrival of the Jupiter-Neptune conjunction in Aquarius, part of the entire transit of Uranus in Pisces and an encounter with collective guilt, redemption, and utopian vision. In the end, not knowing who is to blame is the golden prize. The source of judgement is elsewhere. Freedom from accusing is even greater than freedom from guilt. In fact, they are connected. It is a multi-faceted coin.
In Pisces we face all of our actions and the issue of karma, or cause and effect. Wrong leads to right and back again, so we have no choice but to surrender, forgive, and live in the continuum unable to truly judge anything. It all takes care of itself in the end. I'm not a big fan of punishment since I believe that it comes naturally of its own accord one way or another. I don't want to implement it, that I know.
Jupiter expands, so when these planets meet, many things can happen. Awareness of the divine element and the shimmering beauty of life on earth is a guarantee, along with the recognition of our collective humanity and the emotions we share. That could include some forgiveness in areas where you didn't think it was possible.
Another factor is deceit, tricks, and all forms of deception. Magic, both wondrous and terrible. Swindles will be popular and, of course, the savior worship will continue as normal. Illusions will be maintained by some, but relinquished by others when they see them inflated to these proportions.
An encounter with the transcendental nature of things is scheduled, and that includes the false euphoria and the genuine god experience, if there is a difference. Psychoactive substances, bottled spirits, affirmations, twirling incense and heavenly cymbals, messiahs, divine words of pledged love into eternity with oneness included, and all sorts of intoxicants will be consumed. Does god care how you reach him-her-it? It's never told me. What exactly must I do to be included in the divine inner sanctum?
Floods, either physical or metaphorical, are also under the governance of Neptune, and the swell of collective feeling can be counted on, if not a few real waves and rising waters. Pisces can be overwhelming and Uranus adds a sort of electrical charge to the flow. Shocks and sweeping sensations of relief are possible as the oceans carry humanity to steely, firm, hot, and hard Aries. Do you think this conjunction is it? That we will glide through, forgiven and saved? Think again.
After this transit, in January, Jupiter will enter Pisces for a whole year joining Uranus for the grand finale. Jupiter-Neptune to the hilt. If you believe salvation will be quick and easy, you might be surprised. The Promised Land keeps jumping the map. Amazingly, absolutely amazingly, Jupiter will be at 29 Pisces exactly when Uranus is, when they both enter Aries. Stunning synchronization. Back and forth they'll dance for awhile and this is what I think. Uranus is liberation, Pisces is salvation, and the end result could be freedom from the need for salvation altogether. No more messiahs for the moment. No promises I don't really need. Just art, maybe. I'm ready. I'll consider myself saved right now. Visions of reality in the creative fire and beginning of Aries. Taking life on as it is, with vigor, strength, muscle, enthusiasm, independence in some cases, and of course ... competition. The gift of self-confidence with Venus retrograde in Aries could go a long way.
posted by jm at 3:25 AM
43 Comments:
freedom from the need for salvation altogether.
Yup. When I was exploring alternative forms of spirituality around age 19-20, I ran across a phrase that stuck with me: There is no need for salvation because there is nothing to be saved from.
JM, Joe
"freedom from the need for salvation altogether."
"there is nothing to be saved from."
I tend to say nothing to forgive : give for, it all equals out in the end.
The big OMG is the 29 Pisces conjunction of Uranus and Jupiter before they enter Aries. Wow. Over and over that 29th degree is being lit. Venus goes back to sit there in contemplation at the end of her retrograde. Venus- goddess of love, of beauty, wealth, fertility and WAR..
ha! I went to SCAD for my masters.
Naptune illusion indeed. It is the biggest art school in the world, yet if overwhelmingly felt like a trade/craft school, where no teacher was tenured, and no student left to explore theory. It is a business money making machine, don't be fooled.
Same with the town-Savannah. Gorgeous french colonial architecture, warm weather and magnolia trees belied the massive racial divide, heart-wrenching poverty and crime.
In the end, not knowing who is to blame is the golden prize. The source of judgement is elsewhere. Freedom from accusing is even greater than freedom from guilt. In fact, they are connected. It is a multi-faceted coin.
This parallels the situation I'm in with my house right now. My wife and I had some stuff stored in a big closet. The previous renter was really annoyed that it was there. He moved out and left a shed. We moved the shed into the garage and put the stuff in the shed. We were going to get rid of the stuff and leave the shed open, but my brother said we should just leave it and make sure whoever rents is OK with it. We told our property management company that whoever moved in would have to be OK with the shed there. The new renter moved in, but he hadn't been told about the shed. Apparently he had seen the house just a day or two before we moved it into the garage. So now he is angry, the property management company is between a rock and a hard place, and I'm in a difficult spot being 500 miles away. Who is really to blame? Us, the renter for not checking on it, the property management company for not notifying? my brother for convincing us to change our plans? In the end it's just a mess that needs cleaned up.
Ah yes Jupiter Neptune. Absolutely right on JM indicating a flood potential. In my 2009 predictions based on this upcoming conjunction, I indicated the possibility of floods, broken damns, a possible tsunami, a potential flu or Sars outbreak in China, and a wave of those well known passing through. We will see, I know it will be fascinating.
Another possibility came to mind this morning as I read this little tidbit for real clear politics.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/why_i_miss_bill_clinton.html
Forgiveness? Or redemption? Maybe a little of both.
Another thing I came across this AM
was a stunningly blunt video comparison that has appeared on You Tube. It speaks for itself. Wow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkZfizmubUE
it all equals out in the end.
My philosophy.
The 29th degree factor is phenomenal. This is big message time and your mention of Venus and war, tseka, is fascinating considering the Iraq war chart.
I can't help but think the fault finding might be part of it. The wiggling finger of accusation, the Cradle of Civilization, and man's endless history of war. Where is the source? Shouldn't we all be punished for killing Native Americans, or should they lynch Republicans? It's hard to say. One of the great tragedies of life is the inability to find the germ of wrong-doing. I guess it's because we shy away from looking at ourselves. And why is that? I guess we can't. We're inside looking out.
Omg that sounds terrible. elena. Glad it's over and you decided on a more personal artistic pursuit.
Mpk, that is perfect. Who is to blame can never ever be answered. I was planning on doing an article on metaphysics and crime, and I should, but the crowd resists that one eternally.
We spend so much time blaming that the messes never get cleaned up.
So I just put the whole mess together and blame everybody. Or nobody. It's largely cause and effect. Circumstance. We humans get caught in the sequence.
Which tidbit chiron? the whole list came up.
I read the Roosevelt one and I'm thrilled? There are some smart ones out there. It's exactly what I wrote about a few days ago about small government. This is insanity, and we can't stop the fall, even knowing better. It's wild.
The Obama team has been lauded for emulating Franklin Roosevelt's bold response to the Great Depression of the 1930s. And as calls grow for nationalization of Citi and other giant banks, they may be tempted to go where even FDR feared to tread. But financial giantism -- private or public -- isn't the answer. The challenge is how to reconstruct our broken financial system. Let's give Franklin a rest for a while, and ponder Teddy's progressive philosophy: When it comes to finance, small really is beautiful.
We'll get there eventually. Gonna be a tough one.
Chiron! Heavens. I haven't seen him lately. The cocky factor is exponential. Glad I'm not in the path. I'm starting to feel sorry for him. I eventually do for everyone, and below are some of the reasons why. Best to not look too much.
This is how it works and why I despair about the human condition sometimes.
The left leaning blogs pride themselves on being compassionate, full of light, and righteous. It's entirely the republican's fault. They waste no time expressing the worst hatred imaginable with shocking images, but that's OK within the righteous light.
They were so utterly opposed to the war and they mentioned the bloodshed and suffering continually. But when the war progessed and the '04 election came, they rooted for bombings so Bush would look bad. It was awful. Did they really want the war to wind down? Only when convenient.
Then Cheney shot his friend and the crowd was waiting and hoping all weekend for the man to die so Cheney would get nailed. That one was the worst. I made the mistake of mentioning it on a "spiritual" astro blog.
And there was Katrina. I recall a comment that was euphoric over the number of body bags required, hoping again that Bush would look bad.
People can't help themselves. I don't think. We are the creatures we are. That's why honesty is so refreshing the rare times I encounter it. Moral superiority is fairly dangerous. And it's so tempting. Few can resist.
It won't allow a link, soheres the article in its entirety.
By Steve Chapman - VIA RealClearPolitics
If Barack Obama achieves nothing else in his presidency, he may do something that once seemed impossible: give a lot of people who aren’t crazy about his party a new respect for Bill Clinton.
Clinton, for all his appetites and excesses, was a cautious, centrist sort of Democrat. He had innumerable ideas for things the government could do, but most were small and fairly innocuous. He was willing to go along with Republicans on some of their sound ideas — such as balancing the budget, reforming the welfare system and expanding foreign trade.
He focused on making government better, not making it bigger. He didn’t greatly enlarge Washington’s role in our lives. He proclaimed — or conceded — that the “era of big government is over.”
But Clinton never foresaw Obama. From the sound of his budget speech last week, the new president hopes the era of big government is just beginning.
It’s hard to overstate the expansion Obama proposes. Leave aside the supposedly temporary spending binge that constitutes his stimulus package. Under his budget blueprint, total spending would soar by roughly 75 percent above what it was last year.
Of whom else could that be said? Do you expect to be spending 75 percent more 10 years from now? Does your employer?
The budget deficit, which Clinton (with the help of a Republican Congress) eliminated, would be with us forever. After the gargantuan $1.75 trillion shortfall this year, it would decline briefly before climbing to more than $700 billion a year.
Obama’s fiscal blueprint builds on profligate habits established by George W. Bush. Under Clinton, federal spending fell to 18.4 percent of gross domestic product — the lowest level since 1966. By 2007, it was up to 20 percent. By 2019, according to the administration, it would rise to 22.6 percent.
This increase may not sound like much, but it is. Before the current recession began, reports budget analyst Brian Riedl of the conservative Heritage Foundation, government spending amounted to about $24,000 per household. Under Obama’s plan, it would exceed $32,000 per household (in inflation-adjusted dollars). Someone will have to pay for every cent of that spending, and it won’t be just the rich.
During the campaign, Obama often came across as a sensible pragmatist with an appreciation for both the value of markets and the limits of government — a Bill Clinton with self-discipline. He often painted Hillary Clinton as an old-fashioned, command-and-control Democrat.
But that Obama vanished sometime after Election Day. Lately, he brings to mind Lyndon Johnson, who imagined that the country could easily afford both endless war and a costly array of new programs.
Obama thinks the scariest economic crisis since the Great Depression is cause — or at least excuse — for an aggressive expansion of government, a la the New Deal. But it’s a false parallel, economically and politically.
The severity of the Great Depression bred desperation, which made the public receptive to radical changes. This contraction has been far milder and less disruptive. In Franklin Roosevelt’s day, Americans were open to transforming the economy. All they really want today is to revive it.
While they are willing to accept drastic measures to reverse the recent slide, they are not likely to favor keeping them once the emergency has passed. We all hope to see firefighters in the house if the kitchen catches fire. Few of us would want them to move in after the flames are out.
LBJ illustrates the dangers of taking an election victory for a far-reaching mandate. He got the Great Society passed, but two years after his landslide victory, Republicans made big gains. In 1968, Johnson didn’t even run for re-election, and Richard Nixon won the presidency — which the GOP would hold for 20 of the next 24 years.
Americans, with their traditional wariness toward government, never bought into Johnson’s expensive agenda. Before long, they were voting in Ronald Reagan, who saw Washington as the problem, not the solution. So even though Obama may be able to get his programs through a Democratic Congress, he and they may come to regret it.
Under Clinton, they demonstrated that his party could exercise fiscal responsibility, contain the role of government, learn from liberal failures (like welfare) and generate broad prosperity. He was convincing evidence that Democrats had changed.
Right now, I miss him. Before long, Democrats may as well.
Very astute JM. That indeed is what the left has done in the past. They vilified Bush and hoped he would fail. Now what they are wont to do is to throw themselves in front of the bus anytime criticism is issued towards their man. But instead what they are really doing is simply contributing to the reservoir of a potential karmic backlash that most assuredly will befall them for their duality. You cannot remain morally duplicitous and not suffer consequences.
Chiron, it's happening. Slowly, one by one, they are getting more discerning. The FM coming in Virgo helps. Uranus opposite US Neptune is delivering. The last Saturn-Uranus opp in virgo-Pisces should be a good one.
During the campaign, Obama often came across as a sensible pragmatist with an appreciation for both the value of markets and the limits of government
That was a campaign. Now he wants more than anything to be a great president so in keeping with his Gemini pattern, he's trying to copy the past greats. But he's not in charge. Big money is, and he's the pawn. They are grabbing everything they can while they can. He's the perfect frontman in his deluded fantasy world. He's more deluded than you know. I'm a little worried about Saturn in Scorp and the mutual reception with Pluto.
I miss none of them. They are all power mad crooks. The ones who make it to the top.
It's not them. I will repeat this until I plotz from fatigue and old age. It's the collective bargain with life and these characters are probably the least powerful. We project the power onto them for fear of facing the omnipotence we sense in the universe.
Now is a time to break the parental dependence so Obama will be the one. People will eventually cut him down to size and let him go after a series of many inflated presidents. I think he's the end of a line, and after him will come a change. The middle of the transit, Pluto opposite Sun, is crucial. Then it will take more time to elevate the ones based on a more mature nation after the Pluto return.
Obama is a child. A neophyte who symbolizes our own childishness, which works out perfectly. Both he and the country are getting the Venus in Cancer transit, and this is the first awakening of our childish tear-filled begging for this man to deliver us from bondage.
We are still in bondage to our dying financial system, but when we get free, many things will change. Obama is a speck in the process and not powerful at all. Not to worry. We as a whole are the transforming power. When we are ready. And releasing him to his own destiny is one important step. One baby step at a time. Obama is not important. He's a temporary escape like a movie.
Thanks, my man. You are being heard here and elsewhere. Mercury in the first speaking up. Asc ruler in Aries.
But instead what they are really doing is simply contributing to the reservoir of a potential karmic backlash that most assuredly will befall them for their duality. You cannot remain morally duplicitous and not suffer consequences.
OMG chiron. You are wonderful. In the know. This is so perfectly stated. I have waited a long time for this shared knowledge.
Now what they are wont to do is to throw themselves in front of the bus anytime criticism is issued towards their man.
That's why the fall is going to be so big. they are totally blind to the continuation of the same thing. All for the best. The knowledge at the end will have been worth it. It's just hard to sit by and watch it sometimes.
The lack of criticism is alarming but by the last opposition in Virgo it should be here. When it comes, it will be extensive like the breaking dam you so wisely mentioned. Uranus at 29 will leave us wiser as a group.
You cannot remain morally duplicitous and not suffer consequences.
29 pisces, the War on Terror, Afghanistan, Gaza -- it's all coming down.
The Israelis were order to have the most violent orgy of destruction possible while they could right before he was inaugurated and he could so smugly say, "There is only one president at a time." You think he wasn't in on it? Now they are raking in the dough at our expense after the massive damage. One of the consquences of duplicity. Broke and in depression. A certain consequence.
Oh how I love that phrase, chiron.
It's my dream to marry astrology with real metaphysical philosophy, psychology, anthropology, politics, and all social studies.
I saw a magnet on a car today that summed it all up in that succinct manner we're becoming so good at.
My Aries enthusiasm has taken over and I can't say enough about how satisfying this is. You are the first, the only creature in the universe, who has understood what I've been saying for so long about this hypocrisy and how it holds up our evolution. The karmic bank we deal with.
We have accused and punished all through history and here we are, committing the same crimes to the same degree. So what's really wrong?
No amount of punishment will ever equal real knowledge and understanding as a means to a better world. Accusing the obviously guilty masks your own crimes.
No one truly knows who the guilty and innocent are when it comes to metaphysics and the contracts we make. Trial and punishment must exist in an ordered society, but we might be on the verge of learning something more about it with Pluto, the decider in the underworld about who goes to the Elysian Fields, and Capricorn - judgement and punishment, and most of all - reward.
And what are you wearing to dinner tonight?
You cannot remain morally duplicitous and not suffer consequences."--- chiron
I agree, fantastic analysis. It is staggering how often I have seen people in my life, finally take the fall. It may take a few years, but Karma has a way of not forgetting.
All are great comments.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! HO HO HO HO!
ROFFL! We've got to laugh. What a battle ahead.
Yes, we are getting good, aren't we?
I was reluctant to believe that the people here were truly in the know as much as it seemed, but my doubts are beginning to fade. Karma does have a way.
No one truly knows who the guilty and innocent are when it comes to metaphysics and the contracts we make.
This is truth
I have a three-fold strategy to deal with this truth.
1) If it's not my business, stay out of it. If necessary, let any other parties involved know it's not my business and withdraw myself.
2) When faced with mess, if possible, just clean it up rather than blaming. Then take steps to see it does not happen again.
3) Realize that even if you've dotted every i and crossed every t, unexpected problems can still occur. It's part of life.
That seems like it would work.
I think blaming can serve a purpose if put in the right perspective in a practical way. People don't have time nor the desire to live in the metaphysical consciously. That's one reason I keep my life so simple - so I can rerun what's happening later and see what's really happening and how it relates to me and my learning path. Life goes on on many levels.
So if someone is causing a problem, you pin it on them and go from there. And then your 3rd one carries on. Some problem takes its place. life is basically a series of problems.
Sometimes the problems get so big it's too late for blame as in the case of our economy, so removing the culprits will do nothing. In crisis, there's no time to blame those in the past.
So you could say metaphysically that all the criminals in this economic mess actually played the part they were supposed to play, to get us to this point and this life lesson. Thus, they got away with it for so long. It's right in the end. It's right all along.
I've found generally that the crowd gets their needle in the groove when it comes to blame, and in keeping with your 2nd - the problems are slow to get solved if people are involved. When I did astro counseling, that's all they did. They fixated on the other and unloaded all responsibility for their pain on that entity. Nothing I said affected it.
The economy is a perfect looking glass and opportunity to see this in action, since all responsible parties are needed for the fix. That's most everyone. So unity might prevail after all!
The blame thing won't get solved. The desire is too powerful in most. Deep resentment builds and diseases take over the body. But they don't mind. Or else the resentment was there and it finds its hook. In any case, the patterns usually continue all the way.
You can even see it in yourself when you ask, "why did I do such a stupid thing?" Some kick themselves forever. We keep doing them without investigating the "why." The answer is there. So few ask "why" in any wrongdoing and try to connect behavior to what's really happening. They're busy. Blaming.
In the metaphysical, the word "victim" doesn't exist. Every event is a means to get to the next moment of living, good or bad.
We see things in retrospect. In the midst of an event we're overwhelmed with sensations and unable to understand it consciously. One thing leads to another and in time, maybe some will realize that Bush and all the criminals were necessary to get us here and where we're going. So punishment is useless. It doesn't change the course of events that have already happened. It just satisfies internal lust, if even that. And keeps people from investigating the source of their desire for revenge. It does not prevent future crimes.
Say in 20 years, the economy is good again, and there's an easy stretch. Would you have deleted the Bush experience if you could and not get the good times? The hard times are important.
So when you really get there you can be thankful in some way for all your experiences and realize that as architect of your own life, you requested every one. Then, of course, no one's to blame.
If there is blame, it's so much easier when you blame yourself because it's a much shorter route to the fix. How did I get into this (for future reference) and if I want out, how do I get out?
And what's really wrong?
And who sold whose soul to this dying system?
The economy is collapsing and people are trying to figure out who to blame and punish as if that's going to stop the Pluto in Capricorn fall.
The Republicans? The banks? The corporations? Him? Her? Them? What about it?
What about the people who bought and sold houses like on a Monopoly board? The commoners. What about those who gambled away their own children's futures speculating in the day trading stock market trying to get something for nothing, riding bubbles in an amusement park? What about the massive credit card debt and no saving for years?
The people are just as complicit as the crooks. They played the game and here karma comes. Chutes and Ladders, Candyland, and for the wise ... Solitaire. The government isn't stealing their children's futures. They did it themselves. It's too late for blame.
Our next generations are going to be much wiser. The future will be much better than expected or would have been without this crash. So it was necessary, and we can thank ourselves and our lucky stars for giving us this opportunity to start afresh.
Pluto opposite Venus is mighty interesting. Jupiter will be too.
This is an amazing site.
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For a person or a collective to develop a functioning BS-o-meter they must go thru a period of humiliation and deep disillusionment. We want salvation from that. To most, disillusionment is so painful, so humiliating, so empty, that it is to be avoided at all costs - even tho it is sensed.
Dxp, your comment is precise and timely. I feel the importance of what you're saying and the BS-o-meter must be constructed. Now is the time, yet I've been hesitant to say as much as I want to because of what you stated. The humiliation and deep disappointment have arrived and will soon be getting deeper. That's why the repeat of 29 Pisces so many times - the deepest point of disillusionment. We'll get it eventually. The avoidance is growing but that's a sign that it's getting closer to the surface.
By the end of the year, there will be some progress, even if just a tiny bit. It can only come in increments so I will push on with my crusade and help the building of the meter. Excellent.
Thank you much.
A "functioning" BS-o-meter. Heheh.
Anger, Blame, Guilt, Shame it doesn't matter if we all share them at the same moment, we've all known them.
My thought is, though I perhaps did not participate in whatever is the current stew at hand, i've certainly participated in my share, other times, places, i'm not exempt.
In my way of thinking these are important aspects, symptoms if you will that tack our sails in the zig-zag course of life. Necessary to get our boats from one side to the other.
Knowing when to step forward to clean up the messes is one of my big lessons. More and more I step back, to see if this is mine to do, after years of jumping in too soon. There is always something to learn no matter on which side of an issue you stand.
dxp
This is an amazing site
It certainly is, welcome to JM's salon. It is good to greet you.
Knowing when to step forward to clean up the messes is one of my big lessons. More and more I step back, to see if this is mine to do, after years of jumping in too soon.
Enlightenment.
All human experiences have to be allowed. We really have no choice. It's odd that we assign the negative label to the natural. Letting it all come and go like the breezes is what I prefer. Clinging can be a problem at times though.
And who sold whose soul to this dying system?
When I was younger, say 18-25, I wanted nothing to do with it. I sensed it lead nowhere, promised nothing. I stayed out, but I was still intrigued by the internet revolution in the late 90's. It hooked me in at age 26 and here I am now 35, an engineer. My engagement even so has always been reluctant. I've toyed with engagement, but mostly for learning purposes, to discover where my assumptions were wrong. It turns out my youthful viewpoint was pretty close to reality. It's being vindicated now in a big way, and I am preparing to return to my original paths with a great deal more wisdom. And I have lost much less than most, mostly because I never believed and refused to fully engage. I'd say I've gotten about what I deserve so far. I'm almost ready to launch.
Contemplating the word ‘Salvation' brought to mind thoughts of redemption, forgiveness and compassion blended with blame, guilt and denial. How do we pick up the pieces of our shattered illusions and bravely move forward without pointing of fingers? By being noble and taking the high road.
There are always lessons to be learnt from every experience. It is from these that the seeds of wisdom are sown.
JM wrote: "The future will be much better than expected or would have been without this crash. So it was necessary, and we can thank ourselves and our lucky stars for giving us this opportunity to start afresh."
Yes! with the goodness of venus and the philosophy of Jupiter. My NN comes to mind- A good dose of unconditional love and faith might be the antidote for the moment.
Thanks for the welcome! Really, this site is all my favorite foods - astrology, art, archetypal insight, good writing, intelligent comments.
I'm not an astrologer, but I wish I was - just don't have the stuff for it. Started reading a new book, which I'm sure many here know, "Psyche and Cosmos" by Richard Tarnas. Before he gets into archetypal discussions he has a couple of intro chapters which brilliantly describe where we, collectively, are. He makes a case for us now being at a most ripe moment for a phenomenal fundamental consciousness shift, comparable to the Copernican shift when earth ceased to be the center of the universe and how that affected human consciousness. I'll quote a few bits from the first chapter:
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"The radical displacement of the Earth and humanity from an absolute cosmic center, the stunning transference of the apparent cosmic order ... have now come to epitomize humankind's underlying sense of disorientation and alienation..... At a deep level human consciousness was thereby radically estranged and de-centered. .... The more the universe seems comprehensible the more it also seems pointless.... quite literally, in a disenchanted cosmos, nothing is sacred. .... Defined in the end by its disenchanted context, the human self too is inevitably disenchanted. Ultimately it becomes, like everything else, a mere object of material forces, and efficient causes: a sociobiological pawn, a selfish gene, a meme machine...."
No amount of revisioning philosophy or psychology, science or religion, can forge a new world view without a radical shift at the cosmological level. .... any meaning and purpose the human mind perceives in the universe does not exist intrinsically in the universe but is constructed and projected onto it by the human mind. Might not this be the final, most global anthropocentric delusion of all? .. .the most subtle yet prodigious form of human self-aggrandizement..."
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For some reason this seems to me to relate to the mention here of the 29th degree of Pisces.
Also, I really like the term "meme machine" - sort of an "action figure"!
Dxp! So glad you're back. Richard Tarnas is a favorite around here. You're with the like minded.
That's interesting about the Copernican shift. I have a theory that our increasing familiarity with the dark void out there is making us feel less alone and alienated.
The feeling of powerlessness, I think, has made humans inflate their belief in omnipotence, hence the anthropomorphizing of the god figure. Perhaps we will soon have less need for that as the knowledge of the Aquarian Age replaces the blind faith of the Piscean.
I do not, however, go along completely with the idea of a radical shift. I think it only appears that way. I tend to think cosmological shifts are gradual as survival needs determine, but they align with specific events to become too apparent to ignore.
In keeping with your wonderful comment about disillusionment, I think that might be the case with 29 Pisces. Maybe the shift is occurring, but I think most who are expecting big changes might be disappointed. They're missing the value of the present. Too much hope indicates that. The present has to be accepted, disillusionment faced, and then comes noticeable improvement in some ways. It's always a trade. Some things get better, some not so much, some worse. It would be amazing to one day not need radical shifts and hope for a better world. Somewhere in the chip is the recognition of the ideal as it exists in the continuum
JM - interesting thoughts!
Actually I've been musing on these loose topics for a long time, and the Copernican shift, according to Tarnas, was important in a visual sort of way (he does not limit it here, but it is of particular interest to me). Also around his time linear perspective was "invented" (tho Pompeii is full of perspective). There is an element of visualizing oneself in space - as a three dimensional object.
One radical shift that is currently happening is how people communicate. I've watched my daughter and friends grow up freely communicating in a virtual sea with ease. Part of their self conceptualization is a facebook page - friends are all there, all the time, updates and all. They really do, at least partially, exist in the ether world.
Well that gives more credence to the theory of radical shift. The perception of added dimensions in both cases.
I've mentioned before the mini Ice Age that came suddenly after the last major one, and that did cause a radical change in the environment, so I guess it does happen. I have my doubts, though, about this time. The cultural output is ugly, brutal for the most part, lacking in grace, rhythm, harmony, and other signs of cosmic levels of achievement. We have all the tools for divine expression yet we mix them in seriously non-divine ways. I don't know how much we really want that refinement anyway. We seem to be fixated on the ugly. I'd have to see a cultural shift before I start to believe it.
I'm not a follower of other people's theories by and large. People are rather limited in their understanding of the subtle layers of existence I've found. Even though we came to our senses and realized that the earth was not the center of the solar system, we are just as primitive in our social behaviors as we ever were in many fundamental ways. And the relationship with our home, the earth, at this point does not speak of advanced evolution. What happens next remains to be seen. Circumstance dictates, so a shift might be necessary. But one shift becomes the next rut, and onward we go! I think we're already here-there.
People are always hoping so hard for change. yet I don't think they really want it. We always need time to adjust so it comes in increments. What I'd like to know is why we are so desperately uncomfortable with life on earth. I'd like that addressed even more than some ideal that we know we're not going to experience. Why are we not at home?
JM, I like what you say.
I don't 'follow' other people's theories (not any more that is), but I do appreciate a refined POV. Frankly I find them inspiring. I have no idea, really, about some sort of "shift", but even tho I have not finished Tarnas' book, I've peeked ahead and I think he is arguing for a universe not seen as mechanical but full of meaning. I find that inspiring and elegant. Someone like you might not think that is radical - or much of a shift at all - but I think that it is for most of our fundamentalist secularist society.
I guess sometimes I do, and have, longed for some kinds of change, but at this point I don't think it will happen. Not in this culture. I hope I'm not swinging too far to the non-hope place, but disillusionment is a good place to start. There is no 'starting' otherwise. Full circle - 29 Pisces?
What you say "The cultural output is ugly, brutal for the most part, lacking in grace, rhythm, harmony, and other signs of cosmic levels of achievement. We have all the tools for divine expression yet we mix them in seriously non-divine ways. I don't know how much we really want that refinement anyway. We seem to be fixated on the ugly." Yes, I get that. Venus, - our love of planet and ease with her, beauty, grace, etc - is seriously debased in western culture (and others). It is one reason I follow women's rights issues globally as it is one reflection of the valuing of Venus principles and ideals. The USA is far more comfortable with violence than with sensuality and the cultural output perfectly illustrates.
But you are an artist, and there are artists who are in this world. Sometimes it takes going thru a bit of pain in taking in art to get at the beauty - but of course you know that as most artists do. I find the most debased cultural output to be the main stream media, or corporate media. It seems to draw upon all the worse cultural elements, plus a sophistication in visual and sound skills enough to be effective. It get funded and most artists I know get hardly any funding (worldly valuing). The valuing is of returns of $. But oddly is not Venus also $? Perhaps this is a real debasement of the Venus principle.
I keep thinking about stories..... this was pointed out to me by a very brilliant and cool astrologer: Uranus and Saturn - the story. In the end Uranus seed was thrown into the sea and impregnated it, later giving birth to Aphrodite. This is very evocative for me.
Thanks so much for the discussion
You're welcome dxp.
I think you're right about the Venus principle. I know as a sensual musician they have a hard time relaxing into it. Fear of pleasure. They much prefer pain. It has really escalated in the last years with the laser shows and the brutal beating of the senses in concert. I thought it was going to peak, but I'm still waiting. Maybe the depression will put an end to some of it because of the cost. I'm kind of counting on hard times to awaken some of the lost ability to absorb pleasure. We'll see.
But oddly is not Venus also $? Perhaps this is a real debasement of the Venus principle.
This is a long story with the Taurus-Scorpio axis and prostitution, usury, and bondage as far as exchange of money goes. All the way back in our history. Debasement is a good subject since it's laced through all religions and commercial transactions. Money is a great topic.
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