Friday, March 02, 2007

Has Neptune got you Tired?


Am I seeing things or what?
As usual when Mercury is retrograde, I'm getting car maintenance done. I just went in to have my tires rotated, and look what I encountered. Neptune has gone wild. I can't imagine what I'll get when I have my oil changed. Posted by Picasa

116 Comments:

Anonymous Joe said...

Hi jm! *hoists snow shovel in salute* 2 feet of snow in 2 days. Nothing compared to Colorado's nightmare but it shut down the state offices, the University and most schools, which is saying something for Minnesota. We shrug it off and keep going. Not this time!

2/3/07 9:21 AM  
Blogger Neith said...

*hoists snow shovel in salute* 2 feet of snow in 2 days.

Ha, Ha, Ha!!! Thought that looked like lots of snow for your neck of the woods from the weather maps!! Still snowing here but much, much lighter . . . thankfully! :-)

2/3/07 10:18 AM  
Anonymous juju said...

Hey, can you folks tell me - are the nodes of the moon related to the time of birth? or can they be figured out without that info?

And Jm thanks for the blues info. I really liked your notion of the repetition in blues being accepting and also soothing.
And also about the lack of opportunity. Many of the guys (and they seemed to be mostly guys) I was listening too, were recording in completely segregated cirucumstances.

I'm going to check out the other guys you mentioned, whose names I know vaguely, but not well enough to have a clear idea of how they sound.

2/3/07 12:03 PM  
Anonymous juju said...

Oh, and jm I could totally see your astrology/node stuff being a regular book -- unless there are plenty other node books out there. Your way of illustration is also quite unique. There are lots of beautifully designed books out there now with almost equal amouts of images and text -- some for kids and some for adults -- I forget who the main publisher is, but I think there is an increasing market for this sort of thing. You may already know what books are out there, but if I were you I'd go the local metaphysical bookstore and see if there is any equivalent and if not rush to get a book proposal in soon....

2/3/07 12:10 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Curious: Lynn over at Astrodynamics has turned off comments in her blog. Anyone know why?

2/3/07 2:09 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Never mind... they're showing up now. Mercury Rx! Thank gods I took the day off due to the weather. I'm sure traffic is a nightmare what with the Rx and the snow.

2/3/07 2:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Snow!!!!
Don't talk to me about snow!

yes. No time necessary. Nodes go on the day of birth. Easy.

but I think there is an increasing market for this sort of thing

YES!!!!!

Lot's to do. A book always can sell. Publisher?

2/3/07 2:23 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Hey, can you folks tell me - are the nodes of the moon related to the time of birth? or can they be figured out without that info?"

A little experimentation with the charting software reveals slow movement through the zodiac, about 18 to 19 years for a complete cycle.

People very close in age are likely to have them placed in the same or nearby signs. For example, it appears to me that nearly everyone born in 1962, except for the last week or so in that year, have the lunar north node in Leo. It's like a birth cohort thing. ;-)

So, you can usually get the zodiac signs of the lunar nodes from the date alone, but the birth time and geographic location would be helpful for precise interpretations based on their house placements or their aspects to some of the faster moving planets.

2/3/07 2:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Been listening to my blues tapes today. Something's in the air. Could there be a resurgence ahead?

2/3/07 2:26 PM  
Blogger jm said...

People very close in age are likely to have them placed in the same or nearby signs. For example, it appears to me that nearly everyone born in 1962, except for the last week or so in that year, have the lunar north node in Leo. It's like a birth cohort thing. ;-)

Tseka brought that up the other day. Interesting. School years.

Yes. For the house you need the time.

2/3/07 2:28 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Interesting to me that the node cycle of 18 years is our school cycle. Many leave home at 18.

2/3/07 2:30 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

A Dane Rudhyar exposition recommends examining how the planets fall to either side of the lunar nodal axis.

Soon comes the eclipse! The Moon will rise in total eclipse for some areas.

2/3/07 3:06 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Part Two discusses cycles.

"...Many people demonstrate a resistance against what he has called "peak experiences" which tends to upset the status quo of the personality. Indeed, what gives to an occurrence the character of "fate" is often our refusal to accept it readily — to "take it in"; it turns destructive, if not immediately, at least when the cycle reverses or repeats itself. A "reversal" takes place when the North Node has moved half a circle around the zodiac — i.e., when it comes to the position occupied at first by the South Node. This takes around nine years, and the 9-year cycle is well-known in numerology.
     "The 19-year cycle can also be extremely significant. The nineteenth, thirty-eighth, fifty-seventh, and seventy-sixth years bring to many individuals challenges of reorientation of their outlook on life and of their responses to basic factors in their personality. The Moon's nodes' cycle lasts 18.6 years and the Metonic cycle of New Moons' recurrence at the same point of the zodiac lasts 19 years; thus, the close of the nineteenth, thirty-eighth, etc., years is crucial in terms of the soli-lunar factors — that is, of the basic direction of the flow of life energies."

2/3/07 3:30 PM  
Blogger jm said...

A "reversal" takes place when the North Node has moved half a circle around the zodiac — i.e., when it comes to the position occupied at first by the South Node. This takes around nine years, and the 9-year cycle is well-known in numerology.

Yes.

Excellent. excellent. Excellent.

nineteenth, thirty-eighth, fifty-seventh, and seventy-sixth years bring to many individuals challenges of reorientation of their outlook on life and of their responses to basic factors in their personality.

This happened to me at 57. Got connected to the Internet.

2/3/07 4:07 PM  
Blogger jm said...

examining how the planets fall to either side of the lunar nodal axis.

Looking forward to this. Excellent. Thank you.

2/3/07 4:09 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Hmm, so in the latter quarter of next year, the lunar north node will be conjoining my natal south node. Sounds exciting! :-)

2/3/07 4:23 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Polarity! Friction! Life! Excitement!

2/3/07 4:50 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Nope, Neptune does not have me tired. But Mercury, now that is a whole 'nother matter. Bone weary tonight but celebrating! Water pipes are ALL working again shiny new copper whoo-hoo. AND my wood pile has been neatly RE-stacked all split. A good day.

2/3/07 8:01 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

The Node topic has set my mind aflame with thoughts about patterns.
(thanks Kad for the Dane Rudhyar links he was one of the very first astrologers i found. What a mind that man had)

I've been thinking about the North and South node as Pattern and Anti-Pattern.

A good AntiPattern also tells you why the bad solution looks attractive (e.g. it actually works in some narrow context), why it turns out to be bad, and what positive patterns are applicable in its stead."

2/3/07 8:07 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

I have a theory about disease- that we carry unfinished coding that searches for completion. These miasms or dyscraisas leave us susceptible and weak. Through illness we search for the solution.

I'm considering the north and south node in this context. Patterning and Anti Patterning.

2/3/07 8:20 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

The original description was:

An anti-pattern is either...

* A pattern that tells how to go from a problem to a bad solution, or
* A pattern that tells how to go from a bad solution to a good solution.
* "Or vice-versa"

2/3/07 8:23 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Water pipes are ALL working again shiny new copper whoo-hoo.

Yeaaaaaaaayyyyyy!!!!!!

OMG. have a theory about disease- that we carry unfinished coding that searches for completion. These miasms or dyscraisas leave us susceptible and weak. Through illness we search for the solution.

OMG. This is a gold mine. will return. Soon all the days dramatic events will subside and I can bathe in these thoughts.
Oh oh oh.

2/3/07 9:50 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I am in heaven. Pattern and anti-pattern. Here we go.

2/3/07 9:52 PM  
Blogger jm said...

BTW. Dayne Rudyar. A brilliant Aries. He is responsible for the Sibly chart of the USA. I trust him.

2/3/07 9:54 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Through illness we search for the solution.

I must reiterate. What a beautiful brilliant statement.

2/3/07 9:56 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Oh, computer idioms! Hmm, maybe like the notions of samskaras or karma.

2/3/07 10:07 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Samskaras? I have to admit, within all my vast knowledge, I'm not familiar with these. As
embarrassing as it is, I need edification.

2/3/07 10:12 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"A good Anti-pattern also tells you why the bad solution looks attractive (e.g. it actually works in some narrow context), why it turns out to be bad, and what positive patterns are applicable in its stead."

That's a good succinct statement. Hopefully, one day most people will have a better understanding of the proper use of energy. Wisdom!

2/3/07 10:13 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The whole thought of anti-patterning, discomfort, malaise, and the South Node is right up my street. I know full well the patterning and habit of the South and the call to good solution. The simplicity of the solution is what I've always been entranced by.

The generous nod of life to find the best pattern and the refusal of most to accept this, is my interest.

2/3/07 10:19 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Oh, the Sibly chart. I liked it. Fun stuff.

Perhaps the fact that so many astrologers have put so much thought into studying it over the years makes it a construct of some power, whether or not there are other competing charts to represent the nation in other respects. Who knows, maybe that was part of the intent.

2/3/07 10:20 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Hopefully, one day most people will have a better understanding of the proper use of energy. Wisdom!

I'm hoping constantly and will not stop.

Tonight I revisited this hope. Ran across some good energy.

2/3/07 10:21 PM  
Blogger jm said...

whether or not there are other competing charts to represent the nation in other respects. Who knows, maybe that was part of the intent.

Confusion has its merits.

2/3/07 10:23 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

According to Wikipedia, "Anti-patterns, also called pitfalls, are classes of commonly-reinvented bad solutions to problems. They are studied as a category so they can be avoided in the future, and so instances of them may be recognized when investigating non-working systems."

I've seen some doozies from novice programmers too full of themselves to listen to good advice from any number of more experienced people.

2/3/07 10:23 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Confusion has its merits."

Very Neptunean!

I was thinking earlier, "fusion or confusion". ;-)

2/3/07 10:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Anti-patterns, also called pitfalls, are classes of commonly-reinvented bad solutions to problems.

Am I ever interested in this. What a great way to express it. Against the grain.
You can tear a fabric with the grain easily. against the grain. No luck.

2/3/07 10:28 PM  
Blogger jm said...

"fusion or confusion". ;-)

Yes. OMG, yes.

2/3/07 10:30 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The whole concept of fusion pitted against confusion is it. Let it blend and find its own bonding point, chemically. Whatever is extraneous will be rejected. Confusion over. Synthesis complete.

2/3/07 10:36 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Samskaras are traditionally described as "seeds". They are the almost unconscious seeds of action, the roots of recurring behaviors. They are how the past binds the personality. Or, according to the yoga book I'm reading, we moderns can think of them as muddy ruts in the road that will deepen, harden and prevent our metaphorical cars from traveling someplace new.

Well, let me borrow from a yoga philosophy page:

The word Karma literally means action. It may appear that Karma is happening to us, as if some outside force is causing good things or bad things to come to us. However, it is really our own inner conditionings and processes that are leading us to experience outer effects or consequences in relation to our own actions.

...Two essential terms: To understand the meaning of Karma, and to reduce it's control through Yoga, one needs to understand another term, and that is Samskara. Karma literally means actions, and those actions come from the deep impressions of habit that are called Samskaras.

These two act together: Our actions and speech bring us experiences or consequences in the world. Those, in turn, lead to further creation of deep impressions (Samskaras) in the basement of the mind. Later, those latent impressions come to life and create still further experiences.

We must deal with both: If we want the higher insights and freedoms, we need to deal with both our actions and these habits.

Samskara is the most important principle: The most important principle to understand about Karma is the principle of the Samskara, those deep impressions. It is those deep impressions or seed habit patterns, which are at the root of ALL of our Karmas, whether we think of that Karma as good or bad. There are two general things we need to do in relation to those Samskaras:

• External: Allow some Samskaras to wisely play out externally in our life, in ways that allow us to become free from them recycling into more and more loops of habitual actions.

• Internal: Let go of other Samskaras internally by attenuating the colorings of attractions, aversions, and fears through the processes meditation, contemplation, and prayer.

2/3/07 10:46 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Let it blend and find its own bonding point, chemically. Whatever is extraneous will be rejected. Confusion over. Synthesis complete."

Now you sound like you're talking alchemy. :-)

2/3/07 10:49 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"You can tear a fabric with the grain easily. against the grain. No luck."

And that's an echo of the Tao.

2/3/07 10:51 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Karma literally means actions, and those actions come from the deep impressions of habit that are called Samskaras.

Excellent. The South Node.

We must deal with both: If we want the higher insights and freedoms, we need to deal with both our actions and these habits.

Couldn't have said it better.

Internal: Let go of other Samskaras internally by attenuating the colorings of attractions, aversions, and fears through the processes meditation, contemplation, and prayer.

Thank you kadimiros for expressing the nodes of the moon in such understandable terms. And to tseka for the wonderful concept of anti-patterning.

I do think the antithesis is here. It's no small matter to me. I believe the psychological schism we all experience finds its solution here.

2/3/07 10:59 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Now you sound like you're talking alchemy. :-

And that's an echo of the Tao.

No small wonder. two loves of my life.

2/3/07 11:02 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

The nice thing about being in charge of the computer programming is that one can throw away someone else's unsound structure and limiting design, and build the application anew from scratch if necessary.

People can waste huge amounts of time trying to fix bad code when replacing it entire is much faster and has a better assurance of being correct. If there's one problem in a mass of poorly written programming, there could well be others yet to be triggered. Often, making a strategic change in design or in algorithm yields more improvement than tinkering with microefficiencies.

But sometimes people are attached to bad code. They're emotionally invested because of the time they already spent trying to get a poor solution to work reliably, or they are afraid to give an honest critique of someone else's work. But that leads to more suffering. Eventually, someone has to say, "Stop the madness!"

2/3/07 11:05 PM  
Blogger jm said...

People can waste huge amounts of time trying to fix bad code when replacing it entire is much faster and has a better assurance of being correct.

Throw out the baby! I'm an advocate of this. The other is pushing food around the plate.

But sometimes people are attached to bad code.

Hallelujah brother!

Eventually, someone has to say, "Stop the madness!"

Hallelujah 12 times over.

Anti. Bad. Habit. You name it.

2/3/07 11:14 PM  
Blogger jm said...

So here we stand. They recognize the anti-patterning and nod their heads in agreement, then continue on the anti-path.

Often, making a strategic change in design or in algorithm yields more improvement than tinkering with microefficiencies.

2/3/07 11:19 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

It's called mental derangement.

2/3/07 11:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Neptune. Saturn calling for rearrangement at the moment.
Anyone game?

2/3/07 11:29 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Full Moon in Virgo. Virgo. Patterns. Rearrangement, a Virgo love.

2/3/07 11:30 PM  
Blogger jm said...

But!
SN in Virgo. Arrange with knowledge. That it's not the end all.

2/3/07 11:31 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Disrupt the anti-pattern? Sounds wicked. :-)

2/3/07 11:32 PM  
Blogger jm said...

And how and why the anti-pattern?
Must we call in Zorro or Superbuzz?
Does it take heroism to disrupt the dreaded anti?

2/3/07 11:40 PM  
Blogger jm said...

So are all heroes designed to fight the anti-pattern in the psyche?

Back to my belief in the solution that comes with all problems. Does it take heroic action to retrieve it? How much power does the anti truly have?

2/3/07 11:43 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Does it take heroism to disrupt the dreaded anti?"

Maybe just a humble beekeeper, the river's sympathy, and a willingness to attend to the wisdom of the ocean with its shape-shifting wave patterns symbolizing all possible experiential knowledge.

I know of a little girl upstate who keeps bees and sells honey. She's saving her pennies for her education, and a future full of promise.

"So are all heroes designed to fight the anti-pattern in the psyche?"

Well, if they want to be heroes. Heheh. Have to put those cloaks and capes to some use.

Struggle has purpose. It teaches people what's important. And ultimately the preciousness of existence. I would say that there are other kinds of lessons after the level of apparent duality is mastered.

I'm reading in the yoga book that Western psychologists talk of procedural learning, and that the way to address it is twofold:

First, call attention to the process, nonjudgmentally. Bringing consciousness into the picture automatically tends to disrupt the robotic pattern or anti-pattern.

But I think that may not be optimal by itself. Our bodies are part of our minds. We ground our learning in doing.

So, secondly, deliberately do things that break the pattern or go outside the confines of the box. Relearn healthy behaviors and interactions with the environment.

Over time, new neurological paths and energy flows in the mind and body strengthen, and the old ones lose their power, returning to a status of being one among many options, rather than dominating our personalities.

(We can see that the two-pronged approach has some consonance with the internal-external recommendations from the yoga page quoted earlier tonight.)

Then we are freer. And perhaps the power of all dictators will be diminished ever more before the calm penetrating gaze of purified consciousness.

It's like finding a pure tone. It will resonate and shift the collective energy.

You know, they talk, in some of those non-Western creation stories, about how sound came before light. Maybe that's like how tseka says that sound is beyond light. Both are really vibration, so perhaps we can just say that vibration is very fundamental.

3/3/07 12:26 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Speaking of heroes, "hero-mode" is listed as an organizational anti-pattern in the Wikipedia article. (Which is not to say that all heroism is bad.)

Some organizational anti-patterns

• Analysis paralysis: Devoting disproportionate effort to the analysis phase of a project
• Cash cow: A profitable legacy product that often leads to complacency about new products
• Continuous obsolescence: Devoting disproportionate effort to porting a system to new environments
• Cost migration: Transfer of project expenses to a vulnerable department or business partner
• Design by committee: The result of having many contributors to a design, but no unifying vision
• Escalation of commitment: Failing to revoke a decision when it proves wrong
• Creeping featurism: Adding new features to the detriment of the quality of a system
• Hero-Mode: A policy of continuously relying on the heroic efforts of staff in order to meet impossible deadlines, whilst ignoring the long term cost of failing to build in software quality from the outset.
• I told you so: When the ignored warning of an expert proves justified, and this becomes the focus of attention
• Management by numbers: Paying excessive attention to quantitative management criteria, when these are non-essential or cost too much to acquire
• Management by perkele: Army-style management with no tolerance for dissent
• Moral hazard: Insulating a decision-maker from the consequences of his or her decision.
• Mushroom management: Keeping employees uninformed and abused (kept in the dark and fed on manure)
• Scope creep: Allowing the scope of a project to grow without proper control
• Stovepipe: An organisation structure that supports mostly up-down flow of data but inhibits cross organizational communication
• Vendor lock-in: Making a system excessively dependent on an externally supplied component
• Violin string organization: A highly tuned and trimmed organization with no flexibility


The benefit from having references for patterns and anti-patterns (or whatever one calls them, and in whichever area) is that people can begin to talk about issues, and quickly put their finger on what's wrong. That's a great help to focusing their efforts in more optimal directions.

In debate and critical thinking, the anti-patterns would be the classical fallacies of reasoning.

3/3/07 1:06 AM  
Blogger jm said...

It's like finding a pure tone. It will resonate and shift the collective energy.

What a fine thought.

Maybe that's like how tseka says that sound is beyond light

You know how I've talked about sound being the first sense to arrive and the last to leave...an hour after death.
They don't have any idea why it lingers.
In the womb we are connected to the outside world by sound.
Maybe outside, we are connected to the inside world by sound. Or another world altogether. A navigational tool.

hero-mode" is listed as an organizational anti-pattern in the Wikipedia article.

Very very interesting.

The anti-patterns would seem to be the way to clarify the alternate patterns. Illuminate the path.

The South Node leading to the North.

3/3/07 2:55 AM  
Blogger Tseka said...

What wonderful breakfast reading to find here this morning.

Patterns of the Spirit my lifelong quest.

In healing, homeopathy offers patterns derived from attenuation of substances which "cause" an exactly similar, not same symptom picture. They are only the resonances of a substance. for in the main they have been diluted and succussed past Avogadro's number which means nothing molecular remains of the original substance.

In illness we keep searching for the completion and expression of the illness but our anti-pattern / pitfall carries us always in the same direction. Offering an exactly similar but not same pattern the completion occurs and the disharmony, dis-ease ends.

3/3/07 7:10 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Throw out the baby! I'm an advocate of this. The other is pushing food around the plate."

;-) Seriously, though, in the examples from my experience, there was no value to retaining the metaphorical baby, other than false pride. In one example, we had two specialists in to heal the poor thing, and after months of wrangling, they accomplished nothing of note except to bill the unhappy client for their time, and to refuse to sign the death certificate. The end was inevitable.

Whereas, I took a good look at it, let it go mercifully to that big code archive of re-invented square wheels in the sky, and in extremely short order found an existing solution that actually worked without constantly breaking. The client's phone line no longer rang with angry complaints from the client's customers, nor needed to be answered by three harried people who had better things to do than soothe frayed tempers across the country.

Often, these things are a matter of allowing the truth of what is to emerge, rather than fighting it or denying it in the hope of escape.

3/3/07 1:15 PM  
Blogger jm said...

In illness we keep searching for the completion and expression of the illness but our anti-pattern / pitfall carries us always in the same direction. Offering an exactly similar but not same pattern the completion occurs and the disharmony, dis-ease ends.

You can't imagine how much I like this. It's the puzzle itself, which is how I've always felt about the nodes. Offering something similar is the fascinating part. It must apply to many things.

My theory about this goes to repeated anti-patterning in specific areas of the body that are susceptible... related to emotional patterns.

So the pattern always accompanies the anti-pattern in my view, and can be accessed at any time.

I am endlessy interested in disease from this standpoint.

3/3/07 1:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

In illness we keep searching for the completion and expression of the illness

So perfect. I've found this impossible for most to accept. The value of illness.

3/3/07 1:26 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Whereas, I took a good look at it, let it go mercifully to that big code archive of re-invented square wheels in the sky, and in extremely short order found an existing solution that actually worked without constantly breaking. The client's phone line no longer rang with angry complaints from the client's customers, nor needed to be answered by three harried people who had better things to do than soothe frayed tempers across the country.

You're a gentleman and a scolar.

The babies. I know. What I don't get is why they deny themselves the real ego delight of admitting something's not workable. Plus the relief of being rid of it. I find that empowering. To make mistakes and have it be normal and natural.

3/3/07 1:30 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The anti-patterns would seem to be the way to clarify the alternate patterns. Illuminate the path.
     The South Node leading to the North."


They are often widespread mistakes in perception and assessment. They tend to be repeated until insight comes into their nature and their illusory promise fades.

3/3/07 1:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

illusory promise fades.

That's a good one. Saturn/Neptune again.
Hanging on to an illusion can cast a pall over the life. The last illusion I parted ways with had me clicking my heels and going to the new freedom with relish. I knew it was coming, though.

Very interesting and beautiful occurrence when that recognition comes and release follows.

The clinging to patterns that don't work shows lack of creativity I think. Inventors seem to go through mostly mistakes to hit it, and they know it's the process.

I sometimes wonder if they don't welcome these wholeheartedly, knowing they are getting closer with each one.

3/3/07 1:52 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"What I don't get is why they deny themselves the real ego delight of admitting something's not workable."

Well, there is the god-like creator who has invested too much of his self image. Perhaps what some call the ideal ego. Somehow, they fallaciously feel that they're already perfect.

Like that guy in the last century who used to lobotomize even healthy people with minor complaints. He believed that reducing emotional capacity in his patients was a good thing. No neat precise operation should be imagined: he rotated two ice picks at once like they were eggbeaters.

Some who knew the surgeon suggested that beneath it all, maybe something in him just wanted to conquer people. He spent the rest of his life trying to prove that people, those that lived, had somehow benefited from his procedures.

A curious malady to mistake the hell of one's own creation for paradise. A disruption of reality-testing.

3/3/07 1:55 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The clinging to patterns that don't work shows lack of creativity I think. Inventors seem to go through mostly mistakes to hit it, and they know it's the process."

Yes, a lack of imagination, no doubt. Activity lacking in the frontal area of the brain, maybe.

"I sometimes wonder if they don't welcome these wholeheartedly, knowing they are getting closer with each one."

It's a process of learning and elimination, or successive refinement. There are usually clues in the results from every well considered step, so they are not really in the big picture missteps.

Painting is a process of successive refinement, one of my art teachers said.

3/3/07 1:58 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is an extreme case, but what's particularly disturbing about this, is the public consent. I've been horrified by the history of lobotomy.

Some who knew the surgeon suggested that beneath it all, maybe something in him just wanted to conquer people

Very big issue for me and allopathic medicine. Many have a strange relationship with people, and death too. Sadism, power, etc. The desire to cut flesh is part of the surgeon's MO. I once heard a great astrologer go through this and I was amazed, as so few people want to face the truth.

But.....

In abstract theory, wouldn't the anti-pattern of the lobotomist be part of the process of coming to a better understanding of mental illness?

3/3/07 2:05 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There are usually clues in the results from every well considered step, so they are not really in the big picture missteps.

Ahhhhhh. This is where the senses could be trained. Gleaning and synthesizing.

3/3/07 2:08 PM  
Blogger jm said...

A curious malady to mistake the hell of one's own creation for paradise

What's even more curious is to mistake a semblance of paradise for hell. The age old dilemma. Life on earth. Fall from grace, or the path toward? Or brain synthesis?

3/3/07 2:17 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Or a path of grace. It may be what we make of it.

3/3/07 4:48 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"In abstract theory, wouldn't the anti-pattern of the lobotomist be part of the process of coming to a better understanding of mental illness?"

In a sort of negative way, one of having a last, but not first, opportunity to learn what not to do. And to a better understanding of human nature in general, including the capacities for reason and delusion.

I hesitate to risk trivializing tragedy by overvaluing the benefits of suffering and struggle. Once it has happened, of course, it can and will be made to serve a greater good.

The specific knowledge sought on the unfruitful path is actually found elsewhere. There are ways and alternatives open at any time.

From a practical point of view, it seems to me that events are not completely fixed before they happen. Foreknowledge permits future potentials to be changed to some extent.

Some can read a fiction novel, and absorb many lessons from that. Others cannot be simply told. They seem unable to mentally simulate or otherwise intuit the range of possibilities. For them is the school of hard knocks. They set up situations for themselves wherein warnings dismissed return as lessons in literal form. Maybe this too could be traced to earlier patterns, once soft mud, that hardened through selection and re-selection into direction-constraining ruts in the mental road.

The taiji symbol suggests to me that in extremity there is still a seed of potential for reversal and healing, though it may at first appear small. As one looks inward to core spirit, subtle realities appear more real and substantive, and the external reality less so.

Maybe something thematic in some lessons are part of the larger movement of historical forces, but the individual may decline to contribute to potentials not to his liking. I think that the pace, depth, and manner of learning is in the long run determined by the individual.

3/3/07 6:03 PM  
Blogger jm said...

From a practical point of view, it seems to me that events are not completely fixed before they happen.

Partially perhaps? Trending toward?

but the individual may decline to contribute to potentials not to his liking. I think that the pace, depth, and manner of learning is in the long run determined by the individual.

Very long run, in general. Mostly it seems learning is done the hard way by experiencing the wrong pattern.
This must be the sign of mastery. When we excercise these perogatives and decline to participate in those unliked potentials. Just walk away. My latest technique being developed.

3/3/07 7:31 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Partially perhaps? Trending toward?"

For some things, especially by habit.

I think that possible outcomes do fluctuate in potential. Anecdotes of premonitory visions that alter the foreseen are classic examples of this kind of thing. The near future is easier to predict than the far future, and statistics can make good predictions of the overall movement of masses which averages out individual variations.

On an individual level, the psychical sense can detect that things are shifting, and therefore the future is shifting. That could be a result of a prior decision to seek a better direction. Then it makes sense to wait for things settle down, and pay careful attention to what comes up, before attempting to make an assessment.

"Very long run, in general. Mostly it seems learning is done the hard way by experiencing the wrong pattern."

Could be a phenomenon local to this planet. I also think we have an evolutionary tendency to emphasize the negative and overlook the positive. We haven't made all imaginable mistakes to get here. (If we had, we might not be here at all today.)

Some people would say that things usually work out. And maybe that's actually the more general tendency. :-) Unless we prevent it.

We are wired to grow and develop. Today, it is beginning to be understood that our brains are not as rigid as once believed. Some of us take for granted now personal freedoms in gender and class that would scandalize earlier generations.

"This must be the sign of mastery. When we excercise these perogatives and decline to participate in those unliked potentials. Just walk away."

I was additionally thinking that the unliked potential may not be actually bad, just unliked. So mastery could also be walking through it without fearing it.

Either way, that's like nipping the karma in the bud of samskara. :-)

Yes, mastery is increased sensitivity to potentialities, to subtleties. Allowing one to be at the right place and the right time.

3/3/07 8:37 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I sometimes wonder if they don't welcome these wholeheartedly, knowing they are getting closer with each one."

Well, either that or some people have a high tolerance for discomfort. ;-)

3/3/07 8:52 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Yes. It's statistics. probabilities.

That could be a result of a prior decision to seek a better direction. Then it makes sense to wait for things settle down, and pay careful attention to what comes up, before attempting to make an assessment.

I find this to be of utmost importance. The initial decision. And the interlude. I think these waiting moments are where we really get out best direction established. Thrust and parry. Diastolic/systolic. Cramp and release. Inhale/exhale.

I also think we have an evolutionary tendency to emphasize the negative and overlook the positive.

This has been proven in experiments and I think it has to do with survival as we are still in the primitive stages of species development.

Some people would say that things usually work out. And maybe that's actually the more general tendency. :-) Unless we prevent it.

They work out then unwork out in a constant flux. It depends on the moment of perception. One puzzle leads to another.

So mastery could also be walking through it without fearing it.

Either way, that's like nipping the karma in the bud of samskara. :-)


I like it. Sam'scare'a

3/3/07 9:04 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"They work out then unwork out in a constant flux."

Sometimes I think that the fact that anything can happen at all, that anything exists (flux and fluctuations too being patterns of energy like all other contructs), implies an essential bias and nonneutrality. Although both positive and negative things pass away, the whole is still more than the sum of its parts, and therein is meaning and mystery.

4/3/07 10:30 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Sometimes I think that the fact that anything can happen at all, that anything exists (flux and fluctuations too being patterns of energy like all other contructs), implies an essential bias and nonneutrality.

I just got finished designing a post on this.

But I believe life is neutral in terms of our behavior. As are the forces behind the planets. I don't think there is a preference between positive and negative. It's the flux. The wrong will right itself, and the right will wrong.

the whole is still more than the sum of its parts, and therein is meaning and mystery.

That's an interesting concept. The whole being more. In fact, each part is more.

4/3/07 10:49 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I think a belief in more has to do with abundance, and possibly the Moon joop. I think life is generous, yet still witholds the full bounty. Anyone who thinks one plus one is more than two believes in generosity of spirit.

This is all the Virgo/Pisces as we digest and analyze experience, put it back together and get this mysterious "more"

Pisces is infinity in human mental terms. You couldn't have any more than that.

So each one if us is a part of the whole. The more we recognize the vastness of the whole, the more we see that in ourselves.

4/3/07 10:55 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"They work out then unwork out in a constant flux. It depends on the moment of perception. One puzzle leads to another."

It can be pretty interesting how that, ah, works. I heard another formulation recently, something about answers leading to more interesting questions. :-) Good fluxxie, nice fluxxie.

I can think that one lesson leads to the next, or that mastery makes the next level of development possible. Of course, if one does not master the lesson, then the lesson is repeated, possibly in a different format. That could account for a great deal of the flux, even if not all -- as we on this provincial planet or realm of existence may well be relatively slow students, with our repeated reincarnations and all that drama. Or conversely, maybe we are actually rather quick in comparison. Have to find better frames of reference to be sure. Not sure that dinosaurs count. Maybe it's just that there are so many of us here, so there are always new freshmen and transfer students coming into the school.

"I think a belief in more has to do with abundance, and possibly the Moon joop. I think life is generous, yet still witholds the full bounty. Anyone who thinks one plus one is more than two believes in generosity of spirit."

So, ((1 + 1) > 2) = generosity. Heh, that could be!

Although, there are a few other senses of combination besides addition, as when a paired couple in relationship is considered different from two individuals who are not in relationship, though in both cases the total number of people is two.

Alternatively, per physics, things that seem separate may actually be entangled, and we can have things that move, interact and overlap fields, so what is the scope of isolated integers, I wonder.

Let me go back for a moment to what we were both first considering, the "1, -1, 1, -1, 1, -1 . . . ad infinitum". The "more" is also the ad infinitum. And apart from whether anything is actually infinite, I'm intrigued by the existence of the series, however long it turns out to be.

Sometimes things happen that would not otherwise. Sparks from flint and steel. Multiple cells forming an organism that has a center of consciousness. So that interests me.

"But I believe life is neutral in terms of our behavior. As are the forces behind the planets. I don't think there is a preference between positive and negative. It's the flux. The wrong will right itself, and the right will wrong."

Whatever right and wrong are. :-) I guess I'm not quick to define the long view of everything as not implying some kind of overall development or non-random or non-arbitrary process, regardless of how the short view might appear. And it would be a toughie, because I am certain that people have different concepts of basic terms.

I do think that existence as a whole is in a sense nonjudgmental, and not to be judged simplistically. Also, anything that is alive is intimately wound up with whatever life is, and vice versa.

Besides that, I think that "life" interacts with us. It seems to me that as a living organism in which we are like cells, I'm not sure that the universe can be completely indifferent in every sense. There is something being developed or expressed, or a sense of calling, which maybe we can call purpose and value, though it need not fit the dichotomy of "good versus bad" nor "right and wrong".

Interestingly, you seem to be stepping a little bit away from immersion in polarity by acknowledging the transience of temporal conditions -- to which you are referring with terms suggesting polar states in alternation.

In another way, I'm also a little bit away from immersion in polarity by thinking about how that anything exists at all, even a sine wave vibration, is a non-null phenomenon. That is, { 1, -1, 1, -1, ... } is not an empty set.

I'm not too worried about life, or its rhythms. I'm a bit curious about the implications of inclusion in the one, possibly infinite, set -- or existence itself, and the multiplicity, and the fractional gradients. To me, the "more" is also analogous to emergent properties.

Given the fact of vibration, maybe existence is based on a very fine deviation from what would otherwise be static balance (static, as opposed to dynamic balance). Or maybe it is like a wheel turning. I think the taiji symbol also implies this.

"That's an interesting concept. The whole being more. In fact, each part is more."

More than, or of, what? :-) Conversely, what would "less" be less of? It'd be an interesting study that explored what different groups of people around the world think is the baseline, and what disposes them to that determination.

I feel that each "part" contributes integrally to the whole. To say that the whole is more than the sum of its parts, and connect it to "meaning and mystery", is a way to say that things are not a loose collection of unrelated parts, as words composed into a sentence can amazingly convey a message that a mere jumble of them would not.

"This is all the Virgo/Pisces as we digest and analyze experience, put it back together and get this mysterious 'more'"

Heheh! There had to be a way to synthesize those two signs, other than getting blended by alcohol. ;-)

"So each one of us is a part of the whole. The more we recognize the vastness of the whole, the more we see that in ourselves."

Yes, some kind of reflection, in some way. I feel that people at times recognize something of the self in the seemingly separate universe. People take varying stances, and at different times, on the basic issue of whether things are separate or are part of a larger whole; this filters perceptions, colors much thought, and therefore influences actions.

5/3/07 6:28 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Good fluxxie, nice fluxxie.

LOL!

Lots of good stuff here.

Maybe it's just that there are so many of us here, so there are always new freshmen and transfer students coming into the school.

Yes. All walks of life.

I think the flux though, is beyond good or bad, or questions of learning. I think it's the natural sequence. The most learned, I believe, fall into rhythm with the wave, or particle alignment, whichever you choose. Back to diastolic/systolic. It's only our perception that creates the negative. When is mastery achieved so the lessons cease?

when a paired couple in relationship is considered different from two individuals who are not in relationship, though in both cases the total number of people is two.

Yes! One of my favorite topics. The combination of the two is entirely different as well. That's why I say the relationship is a third entity, not at all the sum of the two. Not at all. Oh I love this one.

Alternatively, per physics, things that seem separate may actually be entangled, and we can have things that move, interact and overlap fields, so what is the scope of isolated integers, I wonder.

Great one. Maybe there is no isolation in the material realm.

Let me go back for a moment to what we were both first considering, the "1, -1, 1, -1, 1, -1 . . . ad infinitum". The "more" is also the ad infinitum.

The negative cancels out the positive and the continuum is assured.
There's a whole book written on this I just ran across in Scientific American.

I'll post this and continue. Very substantial comment, I must say.

5/3/07 8:38 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Whatever right and wrong are. :-)

Exactly. Even if there were such a thing, we little earthlings couldn't perceive it yet at our stage of development. The moral code we call right and wrong is totally arbitrary. And meaningless. Look at the world and its behavior. It obviously doesn't believe its own self.

guess I'm not quick to define the long view of everything

Really? :-)

I do think that existence as a whole is in a sense nonjudgmental

Very much not so. The judgements are our fabrication, as is our breakup of time.

I'm not sure that the universe can be completely indifferent in every sense.

Nonjudgemental and indiffert. Entirely different. I don't think the universe is indifferent. It seem to value its continuation and thus, takes an interest in us.

But good and bad, right and wrong, on our level now is child's play. Who even decides these things?

There is something being developed or expressed, or a sense of calling, which maybe we can call purpose and value

I feel this myself, but it matters not if it's so, as long as we perceive it...it is.

5/3/07 8:51 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Interestingly, you seem to be stepping a little bit away from immersion in polarity by acknowledging the transience of temporal conditions -- to which you are referring with terms suggesting polar states in alternation.

This is where it gets really interesting. You state often your view of the integration, polarities included. but in the realm of this existence, polarities seem to have to separate and unite in order for things to move. An electrical universal force.

This is fascinating. You're right. How to ride the polarities with the broader understanding of the connection. I think there is a valued sensation for the human in the separation and flux. certainly procreation is in favor of it..:-)
Maybe it's our reason to live.

To me, the "more" is also analogous to emergent properties.

What do you think these are, where, and when do they emerge?

Heheh! There had to be a way to synthesize those two signs, other than getting blended by alcohol. ;-)

Hope so! My head!

People take varying stances, and at different times, on the basic issue of whether things are separate or are part of a larger whole

This is the basis of faith. Back to right and wrong being a whole, so both must co-exist. It gets interesting when the individual tries to do more of one than the other.

I'm very very interested in pursuing this concept of the whole being more than the sum of parts.

It covers everything. Two elements together make an entirely new thing, which could very well be greater.
Or less, as you suggest.

5/3/07 9:03 PM  
Blogger jm said...

so what is the scope of isolated integers, I wonder.

Very very interesting. That's what we are, in fact. Sheathed in flesh, isolated integers. But why? And are we isolated? Aren't we just trying to establish our connection, knowing isolation is impossible in this realm. Or is it?

love this line.

5/3/07 9:17 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

great stuff here.

Never underestimate the power of One.
It's a curious fellow divides into everything, including itself, you square it and it remains itself, the square root?

It appears to be contained in all including itself, singular but one of the whole. The whole does not exist without the one.

6/3/07 7:14 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Mm, yes. 1 x 1 = 1. Also:

infinity x infinity = infinity

-1 x -infinity = infinity

infinity + infinity = infinity

infinity - infinity is an undefined operation

etc. :-)

6/3/07 8:20 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I think the flux though, is beyond good or bad, or questions of learning. I think it's the natural sequence. The most learned, I believe, fall into rhythm with the wave, or particle alignment, whichever you choose. Back to diastolic/systolic. It's only our perception that creates the negative. When is mastery achieved so the lessons cease?"

Yes, it certainly is more than individual learning. :-) I mention learning to touch back on that earlier part of the conversation on learning. And maybe it is not beyond the scope of the whole of existence learning, the whole which has been conceived of as an entity that expresses itself through development.

(So in a way it is like what you call the third entity from the couple's relationship, though there may be differences.)

Some would think of the whole as "perfection", which tends to imply a kind of finished state -- but then the notion of infinity collides with the notion of limitation. Or, we could say that as far as can be known, something may be infinite and still can increase (allowing for contribution by its parts, new events, new creation, etc.) That is, it does "perfectly" whatever it does. We could refrain from using "perfection" to imply a thing or state in itself, and apply it to some process. There's a choice offered between a static conception and a dynamic one. I wonder if there could be yet another view where both of them are to some extent contained.

"The negative cancels out the positive and the continuum is assured."

You may know that the taiji symbol relates to what we are both saying. It is called the infinite, it symbolizes the unity of the cosmos, and it represents as a dynamic circular swirling motion the endless alternating cycle of yin and yang -- which I think relates to what you call flux. The taiji is also part of a progression, too. The cycle is said to come from something, and I wonder if it can be said to be developing something.

"Really? :-)"

Well, I reserve the right to change my mind. :-)

"It seem to value its continuation and thus, takes an interest in us."

See, I don't use the word "universe" as something separate from the individual. So that gets confusing, unless I choose a different word for clarity. To me, the whole just exists, and will never not exist. I think it may have something directional (if not something we can easily point to as a concrete goal) expressed as dynamic motion.

"But good and bad, right and wrong, on our level now is child's play. Who even decides these things?"

Let's leave that discussion to the ethicists and philosophers. :-) It's great material for songs and literature, though. My friend has a copy of a fun song called "They": "Who made up all the rules?/We follow them like fools./Believing them to be true./Don't care to think them through...." LOL!

"How to ride the polarities with the broader understanding of the connection. I think there is a valued sensation for the human in the separation and flux. certainly procreation is in favor of it..:-)
Maybe it's our reason to live."


Hmm, maybe that's what we're all trying to figure out, even those of us who haven't procreated. :-) Or maybe the ride's the thing, like the rollercoaster or ferris wheel.

"What do you think these are, where, and when do they emerge?"

Well, I suspect that is the mystery of existence. I borrow the term, of course. It's analogous with how combining elements can create a new material with surprising properties not seen in the separate elements.

Like, where does human consciousness come from? Does human consciousness somehow emerge from the background? Or does the background not exist until there is a foreground? LOL! Does individual consciousness come from other consciousness, and how does that work?

One of your questions seems to be: How can students learn to interpret the horoscope with more facility?

One of my questions is: How is it that some people can develop the capacity to feel or see energies or dimensions invisible to others? What are the seeds of those abilities in ordinary consciousness?

And, how does a society shift from one level of moral perspective to a higher one? Or, how can more people sense the movement in the heart center and in higher centers of consciousness in their energy fields?

I like to think that no matter how much humankind learns, there will always be some mystery. I like certain formulations and ways of framing ideas, but I go back to the idea that they are useful descriptions but maybe not the final word. That leaves us some wiggle room, and capacity for surprise and wonder -- and maybe wiggle room, surprise and wonder is a big part of how things are.

So then that brings me back to the experiential, being open to experience, and the art of living.

"I'm very very interested in pursuing this concept of the whole being more than the sum of parts. It covers everything. Two elements together make an entirely new thing, which could very well be greater."

There are probably a lot of eloquent investigations into the idea. It's not my nature to operate on a totally rational level, so I'd be inclined to look into the realms of art and the symbolic more than philosophy. I've always liked the ring of the phrase, so I remembered it.

6/3/07 8:45 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"They" (by Jem)

Who made up all the rules
We follow them like fools
Believe them to be true
Don't care to think them through

And I'm sorry so sorry
I'm sorry it's like this
I'm sorry so sorry
I'm sorry we do this
And it's ironic too
Coz what we tend to do
Is act on what they say
And then it is that way

And I’m sorry so sorry
I'm sorry it's like this
I'm sorry so sorry
I'm sorry we do this

Who are they
And where are they
And how can they possibly
know all this
Who are they
And where are they
And how can they possibly
know all this
Do you see what I see
Why do we live like this
Is it because it's true
that ignorance is bliss

Who are they
And where are they
And how do they
know all this
And I'm sorry so sorry
I'm sorry it's like this

Do you see what I see
Why do we live like this
Is it because it's true
that ignorance is bliss

Who are they
And where are they
And how do they
know all this
And I'm sorry so sorry
I'm sorry it's like this


Video

6/3/07 9:00 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Back to right and wrong being a whole, so both must co-exist. It gets interesting when the individual tries to do more of one than the other."

Yes, it's the choosing of divisive thinking.

It could be that when people dichotomize to an extreme, that leads them to have experiences reflecting the internal divisiveness. Moralizers will always find something to moralize about, and so on. A kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. Eventually, all of reality appears that way to them, like a war between good and evil, with the devil lurking behind every tree stump. Then, shades of gray and colors tend to be collapsed into black and white thinking. On many levels, the supportive frameworks (Saturn) of subtle (Neptune) forms is elided.

That relates to the idea of the samskaras or subconscious motivators that grow into karmic action on the world stage.

6/3/07 9:19 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Sheathed in flesh, isolated integers. But why? And are we isolated?"

A Three Dog Night song goes: "One is the loneliest number that you ever knew./Two can be as bad as one...."

Although, logically speaking, if two is as bad as one, then one is not the loneliest number. Haha!

6/3/07 9:24 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Before I go on to all the other muscle and bone here, I'll start with this.

How is it that some people can develop the capacity to feel or see energies or dimensions invisible to others? What are the seeds of those abilities in ordinary consciousness?

Great question. I've given up an most trying to interpret charts, since they lack this ability, but most of all, don't seem interested in developing it. It's impossible to know if it can be learned.

I know that as soon as I started looking at charts, I saw patterns in the white space, and this was the person in reality, outside of the configurations. The map is only a springborad for me, and always has been. So in a sense, I see the integration from the start.
It would be impossible to describe and teach what I see. There is no evidence that can be captured. No trail. Very very interesting. And it works, obviously.
Negative space, maybe. Where the imprint of the positive is, and more revealing. One of the reasons I am entranced by B&W photography...and the Yin/Yang symbol.

What are the seeds of those abilities in ordinary consciousness?

Oh if we knew. I think as a whole we are on the look-out, though.

6/3/07 2:08 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I go back to the idea that they are useful descriptions but maybe not the final word. That leaves us some wiggle room, and capacity for surprise and wonder -- and maybe wiggle room, surprise and wonder is a big part of how things are.

I admire the amoeba.

The flexible breathing border of everything is how we learn, I think, largely through osmosis. I'll bet a very small amount of learning is conscious. Important, though.

So then that brings me back to the experiential, being open to experience, and the art of living.

This is my main belief. That the purpose is to engage with the experience fully. If so, all the little questions and answers are mere pleasures, not anything that will make much difference in the overall experience. Our senses, I think, are the doorways.

Although you see yourself as part of the life, I, with all my Sagittarius, see another entity with whom I can have a relationship, as well as the big whole. Both work. But in this regard, I am developing a specific relationship. I talk to life, and try to come to agreements. My success, for example, is not about people. It's about me amd life. Most of all, I often love it like a person. Of course, it's really myself, but the anthropormorphizing is part of the fun. Two selves, separated, getting intimate, and reuniting within.
But this is experiential totally, which I know is the key.

It's not my nature to operate on a totally rational level

Really??

the art of living.

Absodamn.

Be back in a mo for more on all of this.

6/3/07 2:20 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Although, logically speaking, if two is as bad as one, then one is not the loneliest number. Haha!

Exactly. Maybe one isn't even lonely.

6/3/07 2:21 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It could be that when people dichotomize to an extreme, that leads them to have experiences reflecting the internal divisiveness.

Maybe the problem comes in when they fail to put it back together.

But the extremes teach us what to avoid. And desire for experience leads us to try everything.

Eventually, all of reality appears that way to them, like a war between good and evil, with the devil lurking behind every tree stump.
That's what happens exactly. Take this goddess nonsense, for example. The whole idea of men being wrong, evil, all of that, is something I can't believe I'm witnessing. But that's the dichotomy taken to the extreme. Unfortunately, very common.

6/3/07 2:29 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Who made up all the rules
We follow them like fools


Good line.

It's analogous with how combining elements can create a new material with surprising properties not seen in the separate elements.

I think this is always the case. Each one of us is an example of this as the DNA is combined to create a third entity. Where do the properties come from?

how does a society shift from one level of moral perspective to a higher one? Or, how can more people sense the movement in the heart center and in higher centers of consciousness in their energy fields?
I want an answer to this one. I want to see some progress before this life of mine ends. Maybe what we're doing here is part of it.

6/3/07 2:34 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The map is only a springboard for me, and always has been."

Aha! It's the intuitive faculties, using the chart as a focus or key.

Almost feels like cheating. :-)

Reminds me of the story of the kid who would come up with the right answer on math problems, and could never explain to the teacher how it was done.

"I admire the amoeba."

Oh, yes? Sometimes I think consciousness is like an amoeba! :-)

"Really??"

Well, of course. I'm really an actor hired to scare people away from peeking behind the curtain. :-)

But there's scarier out there. I revisted Lynn Hayes' Web site this afternoon, and one of her posts links to a debate on Amazon.com. I skimmed the debate and I was struck by one of the passages, something about

"...an understanding of the cosmos as being inherently meaningful, precisely because it defies ordinary scientific explanation (not only actually -- i.e. beyond the capacity of science so far -- but also in principle)."

Most of the debate is dense verbal territory. If you try to read the paragraph in which the above quotation is embedded, then your eyes -- if they are working properly and haven't been ruined by too much schooling -- should glaze over faster than a supercooled magnetic monopole, or even a fresh Krispy Kreme after a sugar bath.

6/3/07 3:02 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Most of the debate is dense verbal territory.

Much debate is. An ego exercise. But fun at times. Vocabulary building is one bennie.

6/3/07 3:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

an understanding of the cosmos as being inherently meaningful

We can't really conceive of life as being anything but meaningful. The attempt to defy this fails.

6/3/07 3:12 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Maybe the problem comes in when they fail to put it back together."

That's why some people don't "get" art, too.

There are some mental divisions that obscure the nature of reality.

"But the extremes teach us what to avoid. And desire for experience leads us to try everything."

And some people forcibly remove themselves from the planet that way. Evolution at work. So, in some sense, although it's not human morality, there are more and less optimal directions to stay within the game of life.

6/3/07 3:15 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"We can't really conceive of life as being anything but meaningful. The attempt to defy this fails."

Well, I guess I wouldn't ask anyone to try. A loss in meaning is rather scary! But maybe it happens in an emotional way to some people. Could be a form of despair.

It's why religionists argue with science. They feel that the latter threatens their sense of meaning.

6/3/07 3:19 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There are some mental divisions that obscure the nature of reality.

Nature of reality?

Isn't "reality" designed to be obscured?

People have told me that I'll have to face reality on day. I always said that I thought I was...that their reality was psychosis to me. Nuthouse stuff. Their problem solving techniques are pre-primate.

there are more and less optimal directions to stay within the game of life.

Beautiful.

Curiosity is a large part. The bend in the road up ahead.

6/3/07 3:21 PM  
Blogger jm said...

A loss in meaning is rather scary! But maybe it happens in an emotional way to some people. Could be a form of despair.

Yes. That comes to everyone in varying degrees. It's hard to know how real it is in others, with all the natural theatrics.

6/3/07 3:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's all hormones and chemistry. Despair in doses calms the nervous system and gives a chance to refresh. Every emotion is a complex chemical synthesis, and I think they naturally adjust as we go. Antidotes to the previous moment.

6/3/07 3:27 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Much debate is. An ego exercise. But fun at times. Vocabulary building is one bennie."

Yes, some people really like it. :-)

I can see it as being like an art of self-defense. I think the skill a useful crowbar when dealing with situations where people are clobbered by rigid theologies. Point out the intellectual problems, and widen the cracks. At the same time, pour some inspirational light in to clarify the emotions and lift the darkness. A little tricky to do both, though, it's easy to swing too far toward one brain hemisphere or the other.

6/3/07 3:27 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Isn't "reality" designed to be obscured?"

Well, necessarily to be obscurable, anyway.

I was kind of thinking that it has a higher expression wherein it's mysterious in a way that's tantalizing, teases both the imagination and the intellect. This helps us to grow and express our fullest potentials.

There's another layer of obscuration, obfuscation, or obstruction that's added through human agency, and much suffering, and grasping for name and fame, and blaming, seems connected with it.

While everything that does happen obviously isn't forbidden by the laws of nature, this does seem to be a level where people feel weaker to me, less vivid on some levels -- although their outer expression may be one of dominating force over other weakened personalities. Perhaps there is a parallel in terms of energy dynamics.

It's not necessarily a bad thing to find oneself with a great challenge. I imagine that most people don't set out hoping to fail the challenge, though. It would be like trying to ski badly, in the hopes of smashing into a tree. Most would find that unfun, and those who insist on doing it tend to remove themselves from the gene pool.

Maybe the cosmos has a sense of fun where people are concerned.

"People have told me that I'll have to face reality on day. I always said that I thought I was...that their reality was psychosis to me. Nuthouse stuff. Their problem solving techniques are pre-primate."

Oh, yes, I'm tempted to use the word "primate" sometimes, too, especially when reading the news. Heh.

6/3/07 3:55 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Point out the intellectual problems, and widen the cracks. At the same time, pour some inspirational light in to clarify the emotions and lift the darkness.

Sounds like quite an effort. I'll leave it to others, I believe.

6/3/07 4:02 PM  
Blogger jm said...

would be like trying to ski badly, in the hopes of smashing into a tree. Most would find that unfun, and those who insist on doing it tend to remove themselves from the gene pool.

Thankfully. Good eggs, after all.

Maybe the cosmos has a sense of fun where people are concerned.

One of my major beliefs, and why I know we're not going anywhere.

Primates do well, really. They do what they're supposed to do. I don't know what to call these folks. Freaks of nature....humans; at this point.

There's another layer of obscuration, obfuscation, or obstruction that's added through human agency, and much suffering, and grasping for name and fame, and blaming, seems connected with it.

Yes. And the weakness. So I can only surmise that it is primitive survival fear that is behind it, and is dragging the whole group down. Seeing enmity in everything.
Not everyone is down the tube, though...:-)

This basic unfriendliness and lack of trust eventually turns on their cohorts. Wish it would diminish. They're not about to leave the gene pool yet. And they seem to the the majority. I wonder if that's accurate. The blame syndrome certainly seems to dominate.

6/3/07 4:12 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Anyway, I must use every bit of philosophy I have, as I witness the continued elevation of the mediocre. It really matters not. The fact that I'm not in central lock-up is encouraging.

6/3/07 4:14 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"So I can only surmise that it is primitive survival fear that is behind it"

Individual survival fear would be the basic level (1st chakra, Earth level, Mars). Then from an energy standpoint, something relating to a distortion of identity at a higher level, too, where it tries to find its place in society (3rd chakra, the solar plexus, Fire, the Sun).

"The fact that I'm not in central lock-up is encouraging."

Ha, well, we could be there, imagining all this. Massively deluded. :-)

My feeling is that the ones that we think drag down the most are just noisier and more grasping of power. They tip the balance.

But it's co-evolution because, in turn, altruists are forced to get smarter.

A recent example is philanthropists targeting small races and supporting agile local groups, for example, rather pouring everything into the presidential races or into big national organizations. Atlantic Monthly has an article on Colorado-based gay philanthropist Tim Gill. Atlantic Monthly's Web site seems to be overwhelmed, so I'll link to a copy on a sports fan site.

6/3/07 4:59 PM  
Blogger jm said...

something relating to a distortion of identity at a higher level, too, where it tries to find its place in society (3rd chakra, the solar plexus, Fire, the Sun).

This is it! Back to my solar plexus, the severing, and reconnection. This is what I'm concerned with at the moment, myself.

A recent example is philanthropists targeting small races and supporting agile local groups, for example, rather pouring everything into the presidential races or into big national organizations.

Very very very good. And what I was observing. Back to the lower level of organization coming with Capricorn, Solid base.

My feeling is that the ones that we think drag down the most are just noisier and more grasping of power. They tip the balance.

But it's co-evolution because, in turn, altruists are forced to get smarter.


I know you are right.

6/3/07 5:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Saturn in Leo, and the Neptune are bringing this solar adjustment into the limelight now. In between, the advanced are gaining influence. And you are right. Not quite as noisy. And better control of bodily functions. Laughter more genuine. Maybe even the smiles.

6/3/07 5:29 PM  
Blogger jm said...

And yes. A question of solid identity. Once that's known, one can go into society realizing that she is unique but still can serve a purpose. The excessive desire to belong and the self betrayal are to be abandoned. If there is any belonging, the self can find those that want to join with it.

6/3/07 5:35 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Woops -- "rather pouring everything" should be "rather than pouring everything", of course. :-)

Hmm, Tim Gill has Neptune closely conjunct Sun, and a few degrees away from Saturn, too. He has been described as a shy, reclusive man. Talented in computer science, he made millions founding that company that makes publication layout software. So he and allies have been busy tipping legislative races left and right across the country. The stealth approach, behind the scenes. :-)

6/3/07 7:17 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

October 18, 1953. Wow, what a kite formation. And lunar north node in Capricorn, by the way.

6/3/07 7:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The NNs are flying in on their kites!!!

6/3/07 9:40 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Colorado-based gay philanthropist Tim Gill.

Hmmmmm. Let me look into this too. Kites are good. Lots of talent, usually and, a special destiny.

6/3/07 9:41 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is great on Tim. Thanks Kad. And right in the neighborhood.

So he and allies have been busy tipping legislative races left and right across the country. The stealth approach, behind the scenes. :-)

Excellent. Lots to look forward to. Makes me want to get out with them all that much more.

6/3/07 10:16 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Yes, we don't have the birth time, but if it's early enough, that Moon and Pluto could be forming a strong opposition in a kite pattern. Maybe like netherworld power, focusing the social justice idealism of the other planets. Could fit.

7/3/07 1:06 AM  
Blogger jm said...

And NN at 29 Cap. He knows the story in politics. I should meet him and his ilk. Local politics is going to be the game. And Colorado is the bellwhether.

This is wonderful!

Sun/Saturn/Neptune Libra. This is some guy. All the air.

The Pluto in the kite is the slingshot. Just incredible. I must meet him. They'll be a great audience for me. OMG.

And The Saturn/Nep is right there for him now...and us.

I really like this guy. His Pluto is on my Saturn. His Sun/Neptune is exactly on my DSC. His Uranus is on my Sun. His Jupiter is on my Venus/Uranus.
Other than that, nothing in common!

Lots of good power with the Pluto there in the kite. WOW.

7/3/07 1:22 AM  

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