The Eighth House and Transition
From study and contemplation I've come to the conclusion that the transition from the 8th to the 9th house in the astrological wheel is the most important one. I would venture to guess that the change from Scorpio to Sagittarius by sign in each chart is also important.
The 8th house is ruled by Pluto, lord of the underworld, who is responsible for guiding the human's passage after death into the next dimension. I think this happens symbolically in the crossing to the 9th house. Scorpio-Pluto is in charge of crisis and evolution, and here is where they take place in the most obvious ways.
That'll keep us busy.
The 8th house is ruled by Pluto, lord of the underworld, who is responsible for guiding the human's passage after death into the next dimension. I think this happens symbolically in the crossing to the 9th house. Scorpio-Pluto is in charge of crisis and evolution, and here is where they take place in the most obvious ways.
In labor, after a brief period of intense experience called "transition", a person is born. I think this happens again in the 8th as the birth trauma is relived and an individual is delivered from bondage with others to start a relationship with the universe, the beginning of the transpersonal sector of the chart in Sagittarius. Much like transition and separation from the mother. This is why there is so much intensity, push-pull, and often agony in Plutonian relationships and transits through the 8th. It's the last depot of interpersonal bonding, while the desire to move on alone is appearing along with a new form of relating in a much more expansive way. Very very different and much preparation is required.
At the beginning of the wheel in Aries, we are born alone, cold, fearful, but ready for the mythological journey ahead. Survival is paramount. As we progress, we form relationships to ensure this survival, and in the 4th house we reach the ultimate in tribal familial relationship. From here we move away from the protective fold and come to the 7th, where less personal equal partnerships are formed, along with marriage. In the 8th we plumb the depths and explore every crevice and extreme of interpersonal sharing to obtain mastery, fulfillment, and finally the freedom to move on by ourselves into larger dimensions. The final letting go in this transition is one of the most difficult in the hero's journey.
This is where it gets interesting. I've come up with a theory about our present collective dilemma and why there seems to be an unusual urgency in these times. I'm concluding it's because of the Pluto transit through Scorpio and Sagittarius, and the bridge humanity is crossing to the last sector of the wheel. The separation from the old and uniting with a heretofore unseen entity. "Stuck in Iraq" seems to be the symbol of the times, but I think the sticky part happened awhile back and the release is already underway. The speed of the Sagittarius transit has also contributed to the rushed perception.
Pluto is the ruler of Scorpio, and even though the Scorpio crossing occurred in 1995, the continuing presence of Pluto through Sagittarius has extended the impact of the experience. The crisis was probably passed, though, when Pluto in Scorpio equated sex and intimacy with death through AIDS. Maybe the detachment started then. In a sense, I think we are separating from one source to find another, and the entire collective is feeling the original coldness, fear, and aloneness of birth. Once the complete detachment of life in Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces settles in, perhaps the group will relax into the new dimension, and maybe feel less threatened by apocalypse. Terror and fear of total planetary destruction could become manageable. The people would realize that no one's in charge, everyone is. We could get some smarts. Maybe even the wealthy would lose some of their morbid dread of not making another billion tonight. The planets in the outer signs now are helping us learn about these other dimensions and how power is distributed among all entities in the cosmos. Still, Pluto is the leader of the major passage.
As the Moon in Scorpio travels to its fullness now in Sagittarius, the sensation of this transition is especially apparent. Pluto and Jupiter in Sagittarius are adding quite a bit as well. I will be writing another article soon with a more in-depth look at Plutonian relationships as we gradually pull out of this gut wrenching phase and on to the mind bending one. But first, some reasonable boundary reworking as Pluto transits Capricorn.
That'll keep us busy.
posted by jm at 1:19 AM
51 Comments:
...wow...
yeah . . . wow! Lots to contemplate with this one, jm. I'm still working on absorbing the personal changes that having my Sun progressed into Capricorn are bringing. There is a definite internal shift for sure!
We might as well make the most of tomorrow Full Moon in Sagittarius! With Jupiter involved, I'm sure the energy will go over the top . . .
I have a feeling this relates to themes in my chart, but it is such a huge process. Still a mystery. I can sense it speaks to my whole transformation.
LOL tseka.
Neith, tomorrow's moon is a big one. A climax, I think, since it will be the last one with Pluto in Sag. Next year Pluto will be at 0 Cap.
Analysa, this is connected to the Scorpio South Node. The liberation might be more than with most. Added to that are your 4 planets in the 9th house.
With these planets and your Sagittarius rising you have knowledge and philosophical wisdom. Much to teach through mastery of your Moon-Saturn in the third. More on this later. The 9th house passage is yours in a big way. For both of us, freedom from bondage is the key.
Tseka, I've seen this very often with Sagittarius. Traditionally it's called the "bachelor of the zodiac". The urge for freedom is especially strong with this sign as if there is someplace important to go and they want no weight holding them down. No bonds holding them back. After Sag, I think we get used to the detachment, but here is where freedom rings constantly.
It is also interesting that all through the transit, Bush has been "spreading freedom". I hope he succeeded with his SN in Sagittarius at 19.
jm, I would love you to expand on what you said in the article
".... and an individual is delivered from bondage with others to start a relationship with the universe". How would that relationship be?
jm said "Much to teach through mastery of your Moon-Saturn in the third." Yes, but the thing is I lost my total interest and motivation to teach anything. I know, things change.
Motivation often gets lost in Pisces transits, which are going on now in your 3rd. It will pass. The intercept adds to the squeeze. Uranus is coming for liberation.
I think YOU could tell ME about the relationship with the universe with your packed 9th house. It takes a minute to articulate with a Saturn in the 3rd, but when it happens, it's clear and eloquent.
The release from bondage should be complete at this juncture. Until then we look into every orifice, look at every line, every gesture, every expression, every act of other people to find clues to our destinies. This is where most people are stuck with their worship of the famous and the gossip column called daily life. The search for guidance from other humans which is bound to disappoint. God will not be found up somebody else's life. The thing to worship. Thus the iconization of stars. These people are too concerned with their own paths as it should be.
After the painful separation, the individual becomes aware of another "person" which we've labeled "god" for now. Because of the personal memory in Sagittarius, this thing is anthropomorphized so he can relate similar to the way he just left. An adjustment.
So in order to establish this connection to a superhuman entity, he has to focus his bonding desire elsewhere. I see this in Sagittarius as they have one foot out the door in personal relationships.
It's in the chip to seek direction from a "higher power". The problem comes when the word is spread through other people, morality being dictated by flawed creatures themselves. This prevents direct contact, thus the failed religious hierarchy. Incomplete severance of bonds.
This is what is happening exactly now with Pluto finishing in Sag. Who is the personal spiritual guide? Where is the reflection of our inner priest?
It does find connection with other and things in the world, but it has to be free from this primitive emotional need.
You ask, analysa, How would that relationship be?
That's the perfect question. Man, would I love to hear everone's interpretaion of this, being so intelligent and spritual already around here.
The death of Jerry Falwell was the clue here. The lack of charismatic leadership is another, as we often give godlike qualities to ordinary men. The decline of the mullahs in the Middle east is another. All to our benefit.
“I think YOU could tell ME about the relationship with the universe with your packed 9th house.”
Well, I think I was refering to an other aspect of the relationship with the universe. Because if you are refering to a relationship with God /Supreme Being, I have always had that and it is the foundation of my life and my guidance in all. Never looked at any religion to find it. There is a very clear inner voice that speaks to me.
There is an aspect to that relationship where all things related to the material world, I call this supreme being my “employer”, I only respond to him, we work together. He guides me along and shows me what is needed. Interestingly, I have always been self employed my whole life, wouldn´t have it any other way. I work for him/her, no one else. (I just asked him for a big raise! Ha Ha).
When I asked you that question I was refering more to what role does one start to play on a much larger level, I mean universal, not planetary, when that kicks in? More like, what does the soul do on a Universal level ? Maybe that is too way out !
I mean universal, not planetary, when that kicks in? More like, what does the soul do on a Universal level ? Maybe that is too way out !
That is your Saturn in Pisces exactly. You have the knowledge within the saturn container. Uranus should free that up.
It's the diffuse spirituality of Pisces that recognizes infinity. It's squaring all the Sagittarius now, and this issue is in the limelight for the collective. Beyond god and into universal unity. Both figure in.
Saturn in Pisces is the expert on the universal.
I had the most magnificent orchestration in my life, when Uranus opposed my Saturn. Unforgettable. Profound liberation. Uranus is supposed to be connected with specific events on transits. It should be interesting for you, with the Moon included in the fun.
Tseka, kadimiros, and meristem are all in touch with this Pisces spirituality and you can see this in their comments. They talk about infinite patterns and timelessness. Good place to pick up some ideas.
"infinite patterns" sound like an oxymoron, doesn't it? Maybe that's it. How patterns in the material are always creating themselves anew.
“I had the most magnificent orchestration in my life, when Uranus opposed my Saturn. Unforgettable. Profound liberation.”
Throughout this whole process I´m going through, I´ve had some amazing revelations, through dreams, of what is coming my way and in one of the dreams I was allowed to feel the freedom I was going to have. It was amazing! Those dreams helped me enormously to go through these diffult times in the last few years.
what does the soul do on a Universal level?
Can the soul really "do" on this universal level? Great thought.
Saturn in Pisces is a fascinating one. Pisces is formlessness and the illusive nature of all reality. Saturn is structure, boundaries, and concrete reality as we "use" our incarnations for some purpose. So how in the world can one "use" this universality? How do you box it up and fit it into saturn rigidity? Ideally Saturn gives it tangible form. You could probably tell me.
We are all laboring under this Saturn-Neptune opposition and I haven't noticed anything concrete! Not quite yet.
Dreams ARE reality in Pisces-Saturn land.
When Uranus opposed my Saturn almost to the minute, my father died. He was a Pisces, with a lot of Aquarius, and always taught me freedom. His family line is about this.
His death was unique and because of the Uranus, I knew it was my liberation as an artist, Saturn in Leo in the 5th.
I had my lights on a timer that had a malfunctioned, intending to go to the death, but he released me from that, told me not to come, much to the chagrin of the Plutonians in the rest of the family. I was in the apartment after the death, and I suddenly realized how huge this freedom was and I leapt up and exclaimed. "I'm free!" Exactly at that moment the lights on the timer all went on. This is how I became truly familiar with the planet Uranus!
Soon, of course, the full magnitude of the sorrow and loss came and has stayed with me, but the whole jewel contains this autonomy known to Uranus. The best part of his legacy.
A lot will come clear, analysa, when we do your nodes. SN in the 11th, NN in th 5th; coming into the spotlight and revealing yourself. The tendency is to get lost in the multitudes, hiding the light, but we'll get to that.
“Pisces is formlessness and the illusive nature of all reality. Saturn is structure, boundaries, and concrete reality as we "use" our incarnations for some purpose. So how in the world can one "use" this universality? How do you box it up and fit it into saturn rigidity? Ideally Saturn gives it tangible form. You could probably tell me.”
Wow!! astrologically speaking, you just made me understand my spiritual studies.
Yes, I would say that Saturn gives it tangible form in what the ancients called the Five Arts:
I : the art of medicine to harmonize the natural and social environment
SO : the art of diagnosis, fortune and destiny
SAN : the art of exercise, physical, mental and spiritual, like yoga, all the martial arts, chanting, meditation also cooking comes under here.
Excercise really means how to recieve, acumulate, change and manipulate energy.
BOKU: the art of numbers, this includes oriental numerology, the I Ching and Feng Shui.
MEI: the art of Oriental Astrology, based on date of birth, place etc. I think any astrology falls under this.
The purpose of the teachings of these arts is in becoming conscious in how we recieve energy and how we can use energy and to help us to know ourselves better. To help us develop our original or true nature.
The ancients taught that it was through the mastery of the physical plane that we would reach the spiritual world.
wow again
thank you all for this wonderful rich conversation.
I do not know how George Bush experienced the passage of Pluto over his 19th degree Sag. But for myself and my son who share merc and asc on the spot we are laughing at our great good fortune tonight.
He made me his dependent (good reversal of role don't you think?!) so i can fly for next to nothing as a benefit of him going to work for an airline. Oh Oh OH! Only hitch i must fly standby this is a hitch? and take only carry on. Dusting off the trusty rucksack it has been on the shelf waaaaay too long.
Man that story about the malfunctioning timer which was in fact acting perfectly, timing. No wonder Winston says the sounds are so perfect he would be tuned to those Uranian ones.
That is a fabulous story. I would have loved your father, i am sure.
He made me his dependent (good reversal of role don't you think?!) so i can fly for next to nothing as a benefit of him going to work for an airline. Oh Oh OH! Only hitch i must fly standby this is a hitch? and take only carry on. Dusting off the trusty rucksack it has been on the shelf waaaaay too long.
That's wonderful!! The role reversal has me sitting here giggling like mad!
Well this is probably completely obvious to all you astro mavens but it just sunk in that Cancer is the 8th house of Scorpio, this watery earth womb gives birth to the Sun (leo) heart center. The 8th house of Pisces the icy void is Scorpio which gives birth to the soular merging into the cosmos away from the mundane.
And Pisces is in fact the solar 8th house of Cancer. Which gives birth to the earthbound awareness of "i am".
Thought, emotion, soul. each a kind of 8th house transition-
That's wonderful!! The role reversal has me sitting here giggling like mad!
You bet! what is better than being a Sagittarius Sun than having a son with a Sagittarius Asc? We just love to travel And if the truck transmission lost 1st and 3rd Gears on the long climb up the Sierras it was just an adventure and we made it all the way to Oregon with a few giggles. He asked me tonight just think when it hits 120 in July we could meet for Tea in Vancouver BC walk around for a day....it's good.
No wonder Winston says the sounds are so perfect he would be tuned to those Uranian ones.
And to think, tseka, with an Aquarius rising, you have that timer for life!
Could Winston be that sweet Daddy of mine returned?
Could Winston be that sweet Daddy of mine returned?
or never gone?
more like
But for myself and my son who share merc and asc on the spot we are laughing at our great good fortune tonight.
It HAS been auspicious, has it not?
Oh oh oh. Never gone. OMG. I hadn't thought of this and it might influence my future. I did miss him so with his NN in Sag, and his ridiculous sense of humor. OMG.
What high spirits and good fortune. I do feel lucky right now.
It's so fascinating. Uranus transits are really known for this accuracy of event and degree. It could be the dual rulership of Saturn. Saturn rules time, but Uranus is another dimension of timing. The step beyond boundary, but we do need to keep our little clocks wound up out there.
Thank you, Winston for keeping us in tune and updated!
THE SAGITTARIAN HIGH FLYERS!!!!!!!
Thank you, Winston for keeping us in tune and updated!
Indeed. Thank you Winston. And thanks to that little (reddish) fellow traveler in you spacecraft. And not to leave anyone out (just in case)...thanks to the um well from my earthly eyes it looks like a pine deodorizer dangling from your spacecraft windshield....but what do i know....
LOL!!!! HA HA HA!!!!
Pine deoderizer!
Can't believe you tracked that one down. That red guy IS cute. Must be a deoderizer. Don't think it's a good luck charm knowing him. He's charmed enough. Could be a sentimental thing from a friend, though. He's like that, even being so highly Uranian.
Actually, my wonderful friends, this is a tree from one of the Moons of Jupiter and it also doubles as a scent producer, so you were correct. The cockpit smells rather sweet on its own, so this just adds to the full experience.
You must come for a ride with me when you're free.
After your current flight that is, tseka, my dear.
Winston, my sweetheart, the very day i learn how to travel with out inhaling i'm all yours.
BTW i have a special passion for both Jupiter and Uranus sooo....i would love to see these trees not to mention the 61 or more Jup moons. And i would not mind a day of junking among all the detritus.
Heavens! Are you allergic?
You can travel without breathing in the traditional manner up here. I will show you how. Very simple. You can filter what comes into your body, and we really should do that. I have brain filters, too. Necessary for these chattering days ahead.
I do love earthlings!
Ha ha ha!!! I'm going to have to hold my sides like jm taught me to do. She warned me about your humor.
Please be my special guest on Uranus. You will adore this place, knowing what I do about you.
Hey!!! I'm coming to. I've been dying to see that 61st Moon.
The detritus up there goes into the black holes, I understand. No junking for us in the Galactic center.
Aahhh, it feels so good to laugh.
phooey,
really?? i kinda thought that a Uranian spacecraft could go anywhere.
No on the blackholes huh?
Well this little earthgirlie is gonna close her peepers and see where she ends up.
night.
Hey, all you galactic crazy people!!!!!
My plans to move to outer space are on hold for the moment. The real estate is sky high, way beyond my budget. So I'm trapped here with the jackasses. Thank god there are insane people like you around to communicate with.
'nite tseka. We might get into the Center.
Good night you talented beauty.
Sweet dreams my intergalactic bon bon.
The ancients taught that it was through the mastery of the physical plane that we would reach the spiritual world.
I think I'll try that.
“My signature card is the King of Wands. Lots of stories on that one. What is your impression of this card?”
I don´t do much tarot, just for myself too. I´ve always liked the King of Wands, all that ceative fire energy, standing for social justice and blending the spiritual with the mundane. Feels like this “swimming against the current” you mentioned, made you develop & refine the energy of the King of Wands. You are your own ruler. However, I see an other side to your nature, less fire and much more water. This side just flows freely, very emotional and poetic. Lots of curiosity, not so good with practical aspects of life ( like doing the dishes).
A rat, may I ask, is that 1948 or 1960? Either one would explain your affinity with Uranus and that story with the timer. Direct, sharp, shocking sometimes, very independent . I´m comparing it with an other system I learned. I´m a horse, hiiiiiiaaaa!
I´m getting it all mixed up here, I thought I was at jazzrap, never mind, .... blue moon right?
I SWEAR I was at jazzrap!!! That must have been that electrical Uranus timer energy! Something ....
Ha! didn't know about Sag as the planetary bachelor. There is where you will find my 7th, and my marriage lasted about a year after Pluto hit in '95. Marry again? Me?
Sun in my 8th (Cap) and here comes Pluto. Oboy.
Sometimes you ride the waves, other times you get dragged along the bottom. I'd like to think I'm used to it by now. . .
Will! Gemini Rising!
Welcome to Raging Universe. I completely agree with you about today's music.
LOL analysa! That is so funny about the mixup.
Direct, sharp, shocking sometimes, very independent.
Very accurate on the rat. I will investigate the horse. A Sag rising horse!
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