Saturn Opposes Neptune.
Or Does Neptune Oppose Saturn?
in
the
Earth
The Neptune fairy
Is finishing her work.
The subjects of alchemy and mining have come up often at RagU lately and I think they describe an aspect of this planetary combination. This little hard-working sprite is deep in Saturn's concrete reality mining magic and forging the ego through Leo's fires. A strong sense of self and identity are basic to the Neptunian ideal as manifest on the upper earth. Many know the difficulties of the spiritual path in this dense, often distracting life, but after this gels in our psyches, the road might get slightly easier for some.
Many spiritual disciplines teach the abandonment of ego, but this is impossible. Use of the ego is the aim. This is one of the main lessons of these times, from my perspective. The alchemy of ego transformation for it's ideal use in the rock solid earthly realm. A great achievement. The possibility of real grace.
Illustrations by Peter Collington
posted by jm at 2:01 PM
22 Comments:
I agree that integration of the ego is stronger than effectively dissolving it. Just as we are the sum of all our planets in astrology, not just the sun sign, integration of the disparate parts leads as easily to a calmer more joyful soul. Purificaton, the process of boiling a substance down to its essential parts is only part of the larger process of forging a stronger alloy or whole identity.
And what is the ego in its highest form, but the expression of pure integrity.
Purificaton, the process of boiling a substance down to its essential parts is only part of the larger process of forging a stronger alloy or whole identity.
Of course. This adds to what has been in my consciousness with my own Saturn now in the lab. The alloy and the integration of the disparate parts after the distillation.
I woke up today feeling an unusual calm and here was this wonderful accurate comment. Right to the point.
The ego is complex and probably gets tainted by time, occasionally needing this purification. Maybe this is what major transits are for all the parts of our selves.
Maybe the Neptune vapors are the unneeded, maybe interfering elements drifting away to allow more complete integration.
Analysa, the ego. Yes. Look at the times on our posts!
Could this be a sign. That what has been on our minds for adjustment is this ego factor?
The ego is the central point. The 1. The center of the integration.
What a glorious relief to talk about the ego in such glowing terms.
calmer more joyful soul
Spoken like a true NN in Taurus as the three of us are.
The SN in Scorpio has been forged through the purifying fires already and this lifetime the dense, cooled, firm alloy is up for practical use. Overdoing this process is useless, but the memory of the great procedure remains, underlying the pleasure since we know what it took to get there.
“Analysa, the ego. Yes. Look at the times on our posts!”
Wow! Plus we are in such different time zones!
“Could this be a sign. That what has been on our minds for adjustment is this ego factor?”
That seems to be the answer to the question whirling around my head all day. The ego.
Standing firm and tall, owning my space.
It's definitely the answer analysa. NN in the 5th and Mars in Leo for you.
Ego is the precise solution for NN in the 5th. Self respect and walking away from degrading situations.
I saw this happen to a poster on another blog. Her name is goldensilence and she is a Leo jewel. She was insulted cheaply, even indirectly, but she refused it and said good by with no uncertainty. The dignity with which she did this will stay with me forever. She was an integral part of my Saturn return. One moment. so instructive.
I wish I could understand it one day from the astrological perspective.
My tool has been trusting my intuition.
The best way.
"Saturn Opposes Neptune.Or Does Neptune Oppose Saturn?"
What a question!! :-) Since this particular opposition is forming a T-square with my Mercury, I haven't a clue. Maybe I'll be able to shed some light when Saturn moves out of Leo . . . :-)
It does take a little time to see the results. but I was taken by your comment about hugging people more easily. This one is great. It's a feeling in the heart solar plexus region that Saturns in Leo are meant to unblock. Then the arms instictively stop being used as defense and turn to embrace, or some different expression. Mercury rules the arms, too. Merc rules your 8th, so the death connection. And of course, your good 'ol NN.
I'd guess that the results of some new communication are in the mail.:o)
One thing to keep in mind is that the original symbol for Capricorn had a goat with a fish tail. I think there's more than meets the fin here.
An ancient Babylonian god was Ea, known as the 'antelope of the subterranean ocean'. The fish tailed goat was also called kusarikku, the fish-ram.
The original chicken of the sea? ;o)
Joe! What perspicuity!
Well, it's kinda corny and a bit capricious, but what the heck. :o)
Abandoning the ego. I agree. You need a healthy ego. I wonder if the abandonment of ego idea arose from the practical idea that you need to be not too rigid or too selfish, and then the Indian mind got metaphysical and heady about it (as it likes to do).
It's also a matter of who you're talking to. A lot of people in our culture have difficulty in feeling OK in wanting things for themselves, and you don't want to advise them to abandon their egos! On the other hand, there are plenty of people who are quite happy living just for themselves and doing nothing for others, and suggesting to them that they forget about their own interests occasionally - i.e. abandoning their egos! - might be a good thing.
You mean kinda Capricorny joe?
then the Indian mind got metaphysical and heady about it (as it likes to do)
Heheh.
On the other hand, there are plenty of people who are quite happy living just for themselves and doing nothing for others, and suggesting to them that they forget about their own interests occasionally - i.e. abandoning their egos! - might be a good thing.
I don't think this is ego. I think it's ego deficit that makes them obsess. A real healthy ego with self love automatically radiates outward and expresses as love for others and life. That's why a good one is so good. It forgets itself.
I don't think the ego is that complicated. It's a matter of significance. Like the sun at the center of the solar system and also the astro chart, we need to feel we are the center of our lives, and that no one else controls our destinies. It happens to be a simple fact, yet people throw their power away at the drop of a hat. Or bomb as it were.
I wonder if this had something to do with how people survived the concentration camps in WWII. Sensing their eventual triumph knowing their own power.
The minor flaws that people attribute to egocentricity are probably not the point. The major egomaniacs probably have the most feelings of insignificance.
It is beyond my comprehension how anyone can think that knowledge and enactment of self as the center could possibly be bad.
The trouble here is that it gets semantic, because we also have the word egotistical in common usage. But I agree with your use of the term.
Semantics do often get problematic. Egotistical and self centered are negatives, yet self centered to me is ideal. I often rebel against what man has done to language, because I think it has a reverse effect and adds negatives to good concepts. It might indicate an inherent problem with the concept.
In fact I can't think of a good phrase for the ego centered concept. It gets ridiculous. "Centered in the self" is OK yet "self centered" is awful.
We could say "ego centrally focused", although that still sounds like too much. Maybe "ego centrally aware".
Really ridiculous but points to the power of language and the whole underlying problem of self confidence.
Wait. Self confidence is OK! Self love isn't!
Unfortunately I think some of those metaphysicians may be right, and it can be liberating to 'abandon the ego'. The self is a construct, in the same way that time and space are constructs that we put on experience to make sense of them. We're hard-wired for this, so we don't know we're doing it. (Have you read Oliver Sacks' The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat?)
Sometimes we can let go of all this a bit, under Neptune's influence. What is, is, there's no need to struggle and achieve and make sense of it all. And this is a liberation from self.
As self is a construct, we're never going to make full sense of it, any definition is going to fall apart if we push it too far. It's a hologram.
It's this game of make-believe that enables us to cope. OK, lets pretend there's a 'me' here that is at the centre of the universe, and here are the ordering principles of time and space, and here are other people who for now we will pretend are separate from us, and so on.
So we need the self as a working model, but that's all it is.
Saturn (self in world) vs Neptune (liberation from self, reality beyond constructs).
So we need the self as a working model, but that's all it is.
That's a lot.
The self is a construct, in the same way that time and space are constructs that we put on experience to make sense of them.
Absolutely. Survival in the material realm depends on structure, though, so we have to work with them as you suggest. The fact that WE create the constructs is the good part. We then have the power to shape them to our specifications.
I heard about The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat?, but haven't read it. The title is delightful.
Sometimes we can let go of all this a bit, under Neptune's influence. What is, is, there's no need to struggle and achieve and make sense of it all. And this is a liberation from self.
Yes. What I often see is temporary understanding of the equality of all experience and a dissolving of separation, but usually a return to judgement and achievement through Saturn automatically. Unless one is permanently in an altered state.
As self is a construct, we're never going to make full sense of it
Never. We're in it, can't see it objectively, and will always struggle to become familiar with it. It intrigues us and keeps us busy all of our lives.
It's this game of make-believe that enables us to cope.
Very well said. Neptune is actually the make believe part.
Of course, my solution is to live with the ego and enjoy it. But others who have a Saturn type work destiny in spiritual matters or ego development, will struggle with it. Each case is unique.
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