A Return to the Return
One thing about the Net and the communities that have formed is the oppportunity to find people I have things in common with and the freedom of the 24 hour discussion forum where I can discourse in my own time frame. The ultimate in freedom to me and the chance to think things through thoroughly in a unique way before responding. The luxury of time. I returned to my computer today to find this gem from Neith....
It occurred to me as I was getting ready for bed last night that you & I were sitting here cheerfully chatting & speculating in an upbeat way in defiance of the general astrological predictions of doom & gloom for the evening. Saturn was sq the Sun yesterday evening . . . and my ASC almost exactly! There are layers & layers of benefits to this whole Second Saturn Return. I'm going to continue to observe this process while Saturn is squaring that most personal of points . . . the ASC.
Neith and I are both having a Saturn return in Leo as we struggle to conquer the fear of self expression and find genuine self confidence. What I like about the above statement is the realization that we have some say in our destinies and that a Saturn transit is a valuable tool even in tense hard aspect, contrary to what some others insist upon.
The difficulties are natural to all progression, a sort of cramp and release in the journey through life's digestive tract. People get sick and willingly endure the ordeal of sometimes painful treatments knowing they will heal. Why not with Saturn...or Pluto...or the other feared entities? Embrace the squeeze and advance.
I've always perceived the characters behind the planets as allies, never trying to purposely hurt me. I consider them my teachers so it is in their best interest that I succeed. It's a gold star for them. I don't feel victimized by a square, even if it involves Saturn and Mars, which it will next week! And even when it hurts. A square represents an unstable condition trying to find balance and harmony. It intends to move but while it's around, it provides a unique moment of interplay necessary to one's evolution. Naturally fear is involved. It always is.
So Saturn as a teacher of self control and mastery is the character I embrace. With Saturn in Leo now, everyone is gaining some knowledge of their personal significance as our failed leaders and icons are in Saturn's shadow and we are encouraged to consult our own light and self leadership, squares, quincunxes, sesquiquadrates, and semisquares be damned!
posted by jm at 2:37 PM
18 Comments:
I think the recent storms on Saturn symbolize some significant development which will reveal itself for everyone soon. It was an unusual occurrence.
Perhaps Saturn in Leo is drawing attention to himself as he gets ready to take center stage in the Capricorn years and we get to know him more intimately.
I've been thinking about the "difficult" transit discussion and what comes to me as being important is the willingness to do the work the transit asks for. We have all bucked the tide time & again, that's human nature. Those folks who make a genuine effort to address the internal changes necessary to becoming a better human, usually find the repeat transit by an outer planet more in the nature of a fine tuning.
Somewhere I read an article by an astrologer that talks about how people telling him/her about how they "suffered" through an outer planet transit, and how much they "grew" as a consequence. When the reality was they made no real change at all . . . seen this a time or too?!?! :-)
Very good post, jm . . . :-)
Those folks who make a genuine effort to address the internal changes necessary to becoming a better human, usually find the repeat transit by an outer planet more in the nature of a fine tuning.
That's a great thought. All my major transits have some hairy moments but with all my mutable planets I roll with the punches. If the lesson is severe, I do what I'm told.:-)
Today I battled with the Saturn though. It squeezes in increments. Tense and release. Today was tense but I know what has to be done. How, where, and when, though, are still a mystery. I know the resolution will not come until the right time. The last retrograde is coming right up and I'm going to concentrate on this one. It should do the trick. All around my 22d.
I often think that most permanent change is really somewhat imperceptible but reveals itself later in small and surprising ways. I also think time and experience are the most important factors. Add the consciousness, and there's a chance. Or maybe desire is the most fundamental.
I often think that most permanent change is really somewhat imperceptible but reveals itself later in small and surprising ways. I also think time and experience are the most important factors. Add the consciousness, and there's a chance. Or maybe desire is the most fundamental.
You are on to something here. Do you remember those moments of realization when we identify one of our issues? Where astrology comes in is being able to fill in more of the blanks. For example, we wonder why we have so many problems in our one-on-one relationships. With a chart in front of us, we can look at the 7th house, ruler of the 7th house & any planet in it. If the ruler of the 7th house is aspected by Uranus, there will be issues related for the need for independence.
If we can take those little moments of breakthrough, recognize & build on them, then we will progress. Just so you know, I believe this to be a life long process and one is always learning & integrating that knowledge. And there is nothing like good, constructive feedback!! I know I've benefited greatly from coming to visit here - the sharing of information from so many different perspectives is fantastic!
Where astrology comes in is being able to fill in more of the blanks
Very very well put.
There is no way this shared information can be anything but helpful. The honesty makes it so.
I think we're just beginning to relax into this and I love the way we take our time and delve into specifics freely, no pressure. I can spend years on one aspect with all the facets and changes from second to second.
It's a great idea to keep concentrating on our current transits. Just by writing it out I think we gain tremendous insight and even practical gain. This is a huge treat. Direct mind to mind, planet to planet.
I feel a spurt of progress just lately and I think it's a portent of the Sagittarius coming up. Expanded knowledge. Jupiter.
And I'm a full Sag opportunist (Gemini factors in too), so I'm ready.
I was wondering neith if things are changing in your universe. You seem less overwhelmed by all the responsibility or at least able to think about other things. Hopefully creative projects will follow.
I'll tell you one thing I'm doing with Saturn since I have no earth in my chart. I'm allowing myself to feel the full weight and gravity. Staying put more, not leaping about as I so often do. Paring down my activities and starting to really pick and choose where I go. If it's abrasive, I don't want to willingly stay.
I feel the urge to absorb Saturn's character maybe more than I have in the past. Could be the age factor. Less resistance to the inevitable.
I am believing more and more it's the resistance that causes the pain. Trying to flee when it's not gonna happen.
Uranus lets us out, but Saturn is a sort of central lockup until we get it right.
Oh wow, can I ever add to this discussion about earth. Grounding and centering has been on my mind a lot lately because I discovered that I am very ungrounded despite an outward appearance of being very grounded and centered. I met a woman at the conference last weekend who offered to teach me to ground. She placed her hands on my shoulders as I sat down, and within moments, I felt like I was in an elevator going down, you know, the sense of sinking. I thought my blood pressure was dropping, but it was part of the grounding process. I was very calm the remainder of the day and have been trying to recreate that sense ever since.
As a water sign, I am lacking in earth (if I recall right) and tend to fly off all over the place, much to my SO's chagrin.
Speaking of 7th house, jm, didn't you mention I have the "infamous Neptune in the 7th house" of being led down a garden path with friendships? You can see the short version of my comment on my California friend over at Neith's kitchen. Boy am I really stinging from this one.
You seem less overwhelmed by all the responsibility or at least able to think about other things.
The new routine is being to emerge, for awhile anyway. Either that, or I'm learning to cope with it!! :-)
I feel the urge to absorb Saturn's character maybe more than I have in the past. Could be the age factor. Less resistance to the inevitable.
Getting older does help . . . what helped me the most was my Aries & marriage. Our composite chart is very heavy to Earth & has really helped both of us ground.
Joe, look up the composite chart (midpoint) for you & Mark on Astrodienst for clues there. And if you figure out the grounding secret let us know!! :-)
The trouble is, doing a chart from the extended chart selections menu on Astro brings up charts that mean very little to me, without the descriptions in the interactive portrait as a guide. I need a lot more practice reading charts before I can be comfortable with composites.
She placed her hands on my shoulders as I sat down, and within moments, I felt like I was in an elevator going down, you know, the sense of sinking. I thought my blood pressure was dropping, but it was part of the grounding process. I was very calm the remainder of the day and have been trying to recreate that sense ever since.
That's fascinating joe. You have a lot of air like I do and that's the scattered characteristic. Plus fire to send it up. Air travels fast to get into everything. Often earth remains unmoved.
I've been dizzy with the grounding going on so your elevator-like experience interests me. I was trying to figure it out and maybe it's just this. Resisting coming down. In fact, last nite I dreamt I was drowning in a pool..kept sinking back to the bottom. So this is really interesting. There was no drowning sensation, not uncomfortable.
Playing music is what grounds me. I push my feet into the floor with the rhythm and the downward percussive strike of the keys contacts the earth. The body sensations too. So there's my answer.
The grounding for you will happen in a few years when Pluto gets to your Capricorn stellium.
Neptune in the 7th is a doozy. As long as you are aware you can work with the garden path. It will be there with that Neptune.
And I was very Saturnian with her this morning, stern and holding her accountable for the stress and upheaval she has caused in my house.
Reading this comment of Joe's was an "Ah Ha" moment for me. This is exactly the mode I have used for years with various family members, usually older, to get their attention. My sister asked me the other day how I got our mother to listen to me . . . and it was going Saturnian that did it. I think of it as speaking from a calm, centered place w/authority. Thanks Joe!!
That's what I like about this place... always something of value to exchange and appreciate! :o)
As I mentioned earlier, I belatedly realized that my friend has had a Saturn return in recent months. It explains the relentless rain of (apparent) misfortune on her, including health and relationship.
Here's another: our friendship died a slow death, I think. She went home today and I can do nothing but thank heavens and wish her a speedy trip home, to never darken my doorstep again.
I may have been Saturnian when I spoke to her, but Saturn's scythe cuts both ways.
What an experience joe.
I may have been Saturnian when I spoke to her, but Saturn's scythe cuts both ways.
This is one attribute of Scorpio I admire. The ability to end things permanently when necessary.
The new moon in Scorpio has arrived bringing the close to this heavy Scorpio cycle of elimination and the way you expressed it couldn't be a better picture of what's happening.
It's amazing the change from when she arrived. The Neptune in your 7th and now Saturn's scythe opposite Neptune bringing it all into glorious focus. The garden path had a visitor this time.
You're absolutely right about Scorpio because I am very good at clearing junk, de-cluttering and organizing important things.
My SO and I had an illumination discussion last night about all this stuff, because my calculations show that my friend and her partner (the one she is breaking up with) are both Leos. Two leaders together? Seems unlikely, to me.
Anyway I was thinking how nice it would be to plug you and Neith and whoever else into the discussion for your astro insights, if nothing else! :o)
My SO and I had an illumination discussion last night about all this stuff, because my calculations show that my friend and her partner (the one she is breaking up with) are both Leos. Two leaders together? Seems unlikely, to me.
Generally speaking, Leos like an audience . . . and are not fond of having to play second fiddle ever. I have seen Leo/Leo relationships last many years, usually with lots & lots of knockdown drag out fights. This trend may be phasing out with the Pluto in Virgo generation, and the overall recognition we aren't obligated to stay in bad relationships. The Pluto in Cancer generation was really the last one, IMO, to stay in god-awful relationships because of societal expectations. Leos are a fixed sign & will endure a certain degree because neither will admit they made a mistake. Now I've seen lots of very contented Taurus/Taurus and Scorpio/Scorpio couples.
This is one attribute of Scorpio I admire. The ability to end things permanently when necessary.
That's when it's their idea . . . as Pat & I well know, when it's NOT their idea to break up, they can become a real pain in the A**!!
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