Tuesday, March 06, 2007

5:00 o'clock Tea


Well!

274 Comments:

Blogger The Wisdom of Wislon said...

5 o'clock and time for High Tea!

6/3/07 4:18 AM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Well, indeed! Shall we invite crusty old Saturn as well?

6/3/07 4:49 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Well, why not. Saturn looks like he's already got his hat on, too!

6/3/07 7:01 AM  
Blogger Tseka said...

What a photo of Saturn -the shadow of night from above.

High drama in both cases.

6/3/07 7:07 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Wisdom!

Welome to Raging Universe. What a pleasure to have another creative human being around here. I love your profile.

Publisher?

6/3/07 1:27 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe, thanks for the pic! Back on track and upward!
High drama, indeed. You should know.

Well, why not. Saturn looks like he's already got his hat on, too!

You are so funny kadimiros, speaking of Capricorn!

6/3/07 1:29 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Okay, so his gown needs updating.

6/3/07 2:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

C'mon!!!

Shades of the old circle skirt. We love them!

6/3/07 2:23 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I've noticed that the planet, Saturn, seems to capture the people's love of beauty more than any other one.
This makes me wonder about the Capricorn years ahead. I can't help but feel promise in them for some of us.

I've decided to make the most of Pluto in Capricorn, no matter what happens to others. There are so many possibilities in every moment. I'm learning more and more that I can walk my own path in the larger road. Successfully.

6/3/07 2:57 PM  
Anonymous Juju said...

"Do you like my hat?"

Does anyone remember "Go Dog, Go?"

6/3/07 3:01 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Go Dog, Go?

Juju! What???? Don't remember.

6/3/07 3:04 PM  
Blogger jm said...

She could easily have been born an Indian peasant carrying pots on her head.

6/3/07 3:05 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"This makes me wonder about the Capricorn years ahead. I can't help but feel promise in them for some of us."

Dunno. :-) My sister and I like abstract geometry, sometimes juxtaposed with the organic. She really appreciates Art Deco. Her Sun and North Node are in Capricorn. But we've worked as artists, among other things.

6/3/07 4:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

She really appreciates Art Deco. Her Sun and North Node are in Capricorn. But we've worked as artists, among other things.

I love Art Deco. I wonder what the connection is.

Now you tell me! Your sister's nodes. Worked as an artist?

That is so much Cap in your family. Very interesting. Leo and Cap. Working artist.

6/3/07 4:19 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Well, I never looked that closely at her chart before. I'll have to revisit birthdays some time that we have your articles on the lunar nodes as a reference.

Yes, commercial artist at Macy's for some years. She has also worked as a dental assistant, dental hygienist, ran one of United Cerebral Palsy's dental clinics, and now she is a dentist in private practice.

6/3/07 5:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Perfect desciption of the NN Capricorn climb. I wonder what's next?

6/3/07 5:38 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

ran one of United Cerebral Palsy's dental clinics,

Please carry back to your sister my thanks. Dentistry for those with CP is hero's work. A beautiful woman inside and out it would seem.

6/3/07 6:14 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Thank you, tseka! She is a natural with children, and with the special needs population. And she's working on adopting one or two kids.

6/3/07 6:52 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Oh, yes, I forget her birthtime, but remember I said that she is a double Cap. Well, let's see.

Okay, Sun conjunct Chiron in Capricorn. Ascendant and North Node in Capricorn. Saturn and Moon in Scorpio 10th. And Mercury in Aquarius like me. Jupiter conjunct Uranus, and in T-square with Sun-Chiron, pivoting on Neptune (whereas Neptune in my chart is in a minor grand trine).

6/3/07 7:06 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Dentistry for those with CP is hero's work. A beautiful woman inside and out it would seem.

And you would know, tseka.

Powerful chart. I will look and comment.

6/3/07 9:36 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That mean she has NN in the first. Well, well.

6/3/07 9:37 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Now this is interesting. I'd like to know if her node is 12 or 1.

You see, the fly in your ointment is the SN in the 12th. We'll get to that. Special needs are not your area. Completely different application of Pisces.

Interesting with Pisces rising and SN in the 12th. A redo of Neptune.

Your Neptune square the Aquarius is no small matter, as much as you can enjoy your "minor grand trine".

She got the Saturn/Moon with its attendant guilt, and you got the Moon/Jupiter with its marked absence of it.

You got the Sun/Saturn though and its little shadow on the ego, and the delayed achievement. Tell that to your NN in the 5th, however.

She got the ASC, Sun, and NN in Cap. Full speed ahead in the world.

It looks like Jupiter and Uranus on her SN. (7th?) Mucho relationship problemos.

The elevated Neptune is the story. Artist, compassionate social activist, bartender?
We should get the time.

6/3/07 10:03 PM  
Blogger jm said...

If her node is in the 1st, she's paid her dues to others and humanity and can live for herself. If in the 12th, she would want to pursue the helping angle much more. Or tune out altogether and become a mystic like you..:-)

6/3/07 10:05 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

I think she was born early in the morning, so probably the node is in the 1st. I'd have to make a trip to our parents' house to check the record.

6/3/07 10:51 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That is quite interesting. We'll see. It looks like a progression in that direction. She'd be moving away from the care-taking.
Was she very attentive to your father when he had his heart surgery?
The Moon/Saturn is sorrow around your mother and power issues. Big ones.

6/3/07 11:00 PM  
Blogger jm said...

If she has a Pisces 3rd, that describes you, and with an elevated Neptune, you are important in her life. It would be in the 9th and you could influence her spiritual development. Her guru.
Being positioned in that T-square adds to its importance.

6/3/07 11:04 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

I don't recall anything out of the ordinary around the heart surgery. She was away at university so wasn't around a lot. She did chase down various doctors by phone to speak with them and get full reports.

6/3/07 11:08 PM  
Blogger jm said...

So she wasn't around. Then you were the caregiver, which is what I thought.

She has a SN in Cancer and all the family issues I talked about. The Moon/Saturn exacerbates it. Maybe issues arond her femaleness.

6/3/07 11:11 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It is absolutely fascinating how you got the Moon/Jup in Aquarius, escaping some of the mother power, although the Neptune square in Scorpio is some of it, but she got the full dose.

6/3/07 11:13 PM  
Blogger jm said...

So her achievement is the Moon/Saturn agony put to practical use.

6/3/07 11:14 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's one of the most interesting parts of astrology...how we make our parents into extensions of our inner selves. Who are they anyway?

My sister has a Moon in Cap and she took resonsibility for my mother and stuck by her. I have the Sagittarius Moon and she wasn't around enough for me to take any responsibility.

6/3/07 11:17 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Well, our mother and she didn't get along when they were young. She was an independent young American, and rather fearless.

I used to wonder whether she and our mother were rivals in a past life time.

The only issue around being female that has ever come up in anecdotes is that some men tended to see only her beauty and vivacity, or spoke with some impropriety, unaware of her natural courage, physical strength, and managerial instincts.

6/3/07 11:23 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

But she was around a lot more last year, when my father spent six weeks in hospital for internal bleeding (too much blood thinner) and a prostate operation. We always collude to manage our parents. :-)

6/3/07 11:27 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"It is absolutely fascinating how you got the Moon/Jup in Aquarius, escaping some of the mother power, although the Neptune square in Scorpio is some of it, but she got the full dose."

Well, my sister is more reactive. I can argue better, and out-think our mother. ;-) By the time our brother came along, he was the fully buffered one.

Our mother has Sun, Saturn, North Node conjunct in Aquarius, plus Venus about seven degrees away in that sign.

6/3/07 11:38 PM  
Blogger jm said...

She was an independent young American, and rather fearless.

I used to wonder whether she and our mother were rivals in a past life time.


That sounds like the 1st house node and more of my theory about doing it early.

I look to Saturn for karma, maybe past lives. The Moon/Saturn could mean they were mother and daughter in a past life, either way, or even a father, and there was abuse, possibly even murder.
The Moon/Saturn in Scorpio keeps it under cover quite often, but the fear is strong. Survival.

Saturn in Scorpio is finding her power in this life. Either she gave it away in a past one or was overpowered in any number of ways. But this time the fear of being crushed is huge and the Saturn in Scorpios struggle for a long time to find out how to apply the natural power they have.

In a past life she could have been the abuser and now is corrcting the behavior.

6/3/07 11:44 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Well that's interesting. You see her more like she really is. Your sister does not. She's the Kali type demonic mother to her, and I doubt if you know the full extent of it.

There has to be something else in your mother that touched on this deep emotion/hurt in your sister. Guilt too.

6/3/07 11:47 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The Moon/Saturn conjunction in Scorpio is about as bad as it gets emotionally, but the upside is the shamanic healing power having experienced the depths.

I would guess that the karmic pain is meant to heal in the world, being in the 10th, and she seems to be on her way.

Scorpio, Capricorn mixes are heavy. Pluto is about to transform her life, and it's especially significant because of her Plutonian emotional self. It will be interesting. and as her brother (the Neptune square) you can figure in and be prepared.

6/3/07 11:52 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Your Neptune square the Aquarius is no small matter, as much as you can enjoy your 'minor grand trine'."

Well, I had to think about this one. I wonder if it has to do with empathy. The recurring thing was I had to learn to be careful of my empathic nature. :-)

Sympathy and empathy are fine for best pals, family and godchildren.

But give some people an inch, and they'll be wanting yards next. Of course, that does not work for business relationships, where I expect remuneration for my effort, time, and expertise, so I have to diplomatically put my foot down sometimes with certain business clients.

Somehow, they think they can play the poor helpless female card and ask for special favors without an obvious conflict with their highlighted image of competence. It's beyond the pale what some people expect. This is so different from my family, which has a more blue collar, roll-up-the-sleeves, can-do spirit, men and women alike.

The other thing is that I sense where people are really coming from, and it's confirmed when I get to hear both sides of the stories. They'll deny responsibility for how things turn out and try to persuade me that it's always someone else's fault.

So I learned to hide my intuitive reactions, play along and pretend I don't really know everything, and I put up the mental curtain of golden light. I listen, but when the conversation is concluded, it's not my problem. And it's no good giving people one meets a wary look when as far as they know you've only just met and nothing much has happened yet other than a handshake.

I have to say it's been wonderfully educational, though. :-)

7/3/07 12:33 AM  
Anonymous christpito said...

Yay! I'm so glad I found your blog. 'Tis wickedly fun!

7/3/07 12:39 AM  
Blogger jm said...

LOL!!!!

'Tis wickedly fun!

Great description.

Welcome to Raging Universe, Christpito!!

7/3/07 12:46 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Either she gave it away in a past one or was overpowered in any number of ways. But this time the fear of being crushed is huge and the Saturn in Scorpios struggle for a long time to find out how to apply the natural power they have."

Well, she thinks she died in a sword fight. Remember, she has Mars in Aries. She's not one to cower before anything, but she was aware enough to realize that her temper was quicker than normal. That is, her nature would be to choose to fight instead of flight. She's never been mugged successfully.

She may have more of a premonitory intuition, but she doesn't pick up on energy fields as clearly as I do.

7/3/07 12:46 AM  
Blogger jm said...

so I have to diplomatically put my foot down sometimes with certain business clients.

OMG no! Not the FOOT!

I do agree that the Aquarius gives you the ability to detach, mixed with the empathy.

I put up the mental curtain of golden light

Could I get some of that fabric?

7/3/07 12:49 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The Moon/Saturn conjunction in Scorpio is about as bad as it gets emotionally, but the upside is the shamanic healing power having experienced the depths."

That's pretty much how I think about this kind of thing. :-)

7/3/07 12:51 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Could I get some of that fabric?"

Haha! You can if you make it yourself. :-) I think it's mostly solar plexus energy.

7/3/07 12:54 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Well, she thinks she died in a sword fight. Remember, she has Mars in Aries

Wonderful. She's fun after all.
I do think that your mother was her enemy in a previous life, but has returned to give her an extra dose of life force.

Mars in Aries is astounding. If the node is in the first we have a powerhouse here of gigantic proportion.

She may have more of a premonitory intuition, but she doesn't pick up on energy fields as clearly as I do.

No. She's in survival mode. She can discuss energy patterns in her old age with her brother.

7/3/07 1:07 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Gimme some of that solar plexus good stuff.

I'm pretty creative. I think I can make it myself, with a little guidance..:-)

Nothin like a North Node in Leo!

7/3/07 1:09 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Wonderful. She's fun after all."

And she said she was using TWO swords -- one in each hand. I am not making this up.

"No. She's in survival mode. She can discuss energy patterns in her old age with her brother."

Well, once the adoption happens, she'll be switching at least half the time into mother mode, something she's always wanted more than career. She's always been good with children, and did much babysitting in her youth. I think that it could help finish healing any leftover feelings from her childhood, too.

7/3/07 1:12 AM  
Blogger jm said...

she'll be switching at least half the time into mother mode, something she's always wanted more than career.

I'd watch the expectations on this with the SN in Cancer. I don't think the childhood wounds heal with this one, they just get forgotten in the NN achievement. Career is really the way to go, but the pull of the South seems to win in most cases. Family is always disappointing with a SN in Cancer. It's supposed to be.

Two swords?? Amazing how clear she is on this.

7/3/07 1:33 AM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Fascinating discussion as always. :o)

Family is always disappointing with a SN in Cancer. It's supposed to be.

Hmm. It's supposed to be, in order to push the native toward the NN?

7/3/07 4:38 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Two swords?? Amazing how clear she is on this."

It's fairly rare to fight two-swords style.

"I'd watch the expectations on this with the SN in Cancer. I don't think the childhood wounds heal with this one, they just get forgotten in the NN achievement."

Hmm, intuitively, at least two people see it turning out well. Also, adoption may be a little easier, in that heritable patterns aren't there, as shown by studies of siblings not related by blood.

My feeling is that the karmic patterns have been mostly worked out during her first marriage. There was a distinct change when the marriage foundered, a consciousness-raising releasing of the past. I gave her the name of a therapist, a friend of a friend, who is also a yogi and unusually skillful clairvoyant. She saw relationships more clearly, less reactively, and freed herself from how they held her back from her full potential.

Afterwards, she developed a better work direction, went off to medical school, and developed a highly functional relationship with someone more compatible and supportive of her work and interests. They're both in medicine, so they understand each other. It's been a good relationship as they saw each other go through changes in work, through medical schooling, and at various hospitals in several states. Some of the changes necessitated living apart at times, but whether living apart or together they are able to communicate, negotiate, and plan strategically. Her second marriage is to Libran, I think.

Working with kids, whether at work or outside, is a delight. Still, she's not going to immerse herself completely in family as such. So it's not an either-or choice between family and career.

Her expressed attitude has been to raise kids well, and then when they're of age, to pack them off and let them make their own way. They're on their own! Good luck! She's always been the type to have a well-rounded range of interests, indoors and outdoors, and I think that's not going to change too much.

7/3/07 10:12 AM  
Blogger jm said...

She saw relationships more clearly, less reactively, and freed herself from how they held her back from her full potential.

This could be the key. SN in the 7th.

7/3/07 2:30 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

I think so. Not putting her own goals aside in deference to other people's passions. ;-) One of the lessons from that first marriage.

Being married to an Martian type also enhanced her insight into her own Martian characteristics.

She's always been glad she didn't have kids from that marriage, because that would have tied her to the relationship. Her therapist warned her back then, "If you don't want to have kids, you have to be careful." She thought that was an interesting way to put it.

The second husband, too, deferred having kids; he had his own doubts about being a family person. Maybe he needed to establish himself first.

They were putting the pieces of their lives together, following trajectories they outlined for themselves. Every year, they reviewed where they were, and asked, Well, we've been together yet another year. Want to keep going?

So they each put the development of their careers first. But now that's all well founded for a while now, and they've been expanding their focus, just as they have been from the beginning of their relationship.

There is a major note of constructiveness in the second marriage. A physical expression of this is how they renovated their house and landscaped their property, doing most of the work themselves. Beautiful as the results and surrounding neighborhood are, they see themselves moving on eventually.

When one of her friends (Pisces Sun), asks her about whether she feels any regret or anger about her former relationship, she says she doesn't. Just a kind of, Gee, what a relief to be out of that. That was so one-sided. It was a learning experience. It came, took too much effort for awhile, and then it went. This seems to disturb her friend, who can't imagine how someone could not have lingering passions and regrets from a ten-year relationship, having had several of her own.

7/3/07 4:58 PM  
Blogger jm said...

When one of her friends (Pisces Sun), asks her about whether she feels any regret or anger about her former relationship, she says she doesn't. Just a kind of, Gee, what a relief to be out of that.

When we get to the SN in the 7th you should see this more clearly.

The "Gee, what a relief", applies to ALL relationships. The SN deep down wants a single life. Very very few get there.

They often have the best relationships one can have, because of the SN expertise, but they(we) all want out.

She has planets on the South so she is drawn to trying to work it out. It won't really happen. Not for a long time, until she is really Martian and singular. The upcoming Pluto transits to her 1st will do a lot.

The best thing for this node is to avoid children and the entrapment of the family, but there is no way of knowing if she must have them to learn this. It might not happen anyway as Pluto moves in.

The end, though, is a uniting completely with the self. A sefish existence....very very very hard for a SN 7th. I know.

7/3/07 5:17 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I feel like being completely honest. The astro perspective is limited, but according to the chart, children and family are going to be problematic. Moreso than she realizes. It reminds me of the first story on today's post... A Tale of Two Nodes.

If the adoption goes through, at least you can be aware of what's ahead, which is good.

This is exactly why I don't counsel. I see a no for adoption, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen as a lesson in her path. So I stay out of that part.

All I do is see what the potential is and the problems that are sure to arise. Trying to tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do holds no interest for me, nor does justification and hope that it will be good when it's clear that it won't. Of course, everything we do has plusses and minuses. But I use the SN as a big minus in my decisions. And that is my primary use of the nodes. Decision-making. If the North likes it...do it. But I'm a simpleton.

Funny how I keep mispelling "node", and calling it "nose". It is in fact a nose to sniff out the path.

7/3/07 5:37 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Hmm, okay, we'll see what comes up, given the warning. I do think she is up to the challenge, whatever it turns out to be. It's good that she isn't just a young person starting out. She's got a lot of experience under her belt.

"but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen as a lesson in her path"

Oh, that's so true. We've never been ones to chase after things that are easy. We're interested in learning and doing, and how that gives us the ability to move ahead in the long run. It could be key to an ultimate achievement. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. :-) Maybe it's part of the Capricorn and Mercury in Aquarius nature. We often surprise people by doing things or making things work when the usual odds would be against it. We're pretty good at sizing up situations and devising unique, creative solutions.

7/3/07 5:46 PM  
Blogger jm said...

We often surprise people by doing things or making things work when the usual odds would be against it.

The SN is not about making things work. They won't.
It's not that things will be wrong with the family. It will be her disappointment and deep lack of fulfillment.

I have never yet seen this to be otherwise with the South.

She will do well, can handle it all, but there is an alternative in the North that promises more than we can imagine.

But as I often say, very very few get there. In my own life, after I became an astrologer, I decided that when my husband died, who was much older, I would start my solo life. It's easy to stick to this, knowing what I do now. So far..:-)

7/3/07 5:54 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The thing that's coming is the Pluto transit which will activate her deep deep deep emotional longing and desire to merge written in the Moon/Saturn in Scorpio. This is the story, and why she thinks a child will fulfill the desire. But it's in the 10th house of the public. Maybe one could lead to another. No way of ascertaining. She hasn't even started on the call of the Moon/Saturn, and her own mother, female identity. Her emotional power. That will be forthcoming.

7/3/07 5:59 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The conjunction is in the 10th indicating this past life bond with the parent, and why I find this interesting. Should she become one herself, or transform the visceral longing that caused problems before, into another form altogether?
It's fascinating.

7/3/07 6:02 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The SN is not about making things work. They won't."

Well, they don't always have to work, heheh! But, I do think it's important to try things that feel important to one. If they don't work out, that's also a good thing. Better than to have lingering regrets over what might have been.

Things that don't materialize according to the initial ideal may lead to something else more meaningful. Creative impulses are like that. That is, as creative types, we pretty much know that about how life operates. It's part of the creativity. At the very least, we'll learn something more about what we want to know.

If family is represented by her lunar South Node placement, then I would just say that if the call is strong enough, then she still has something to learn in that area. Only when she learns whatever it is, will it be released. Otherwise, the lesson awaits.

7/3/07 6:25 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"But it's in the 10th house of the public. Maybe one could lead to another. No way of ascertaining."

Well, it's possible. I can imagine her giving informative talks about her experiences to other parents interested in adoption. Or teaching pediatrics and about special needs groups. There are a lot of possibilities hovering, and we don't sense any real problems as far as work and career go. That will always be there for her.

7/3/07 6:32 PM  
Blogger jm said...

But, I do think it's important to try things that feel important to one. If they don't work out, that's also a good thing. Better than to have lingering regrets over what might have been.

That's the problem with the south. No matter how much you do it, the regrets still linger.

Exactly. Thank you for elucidating so well.

7/3/07 6:33 PM  
Blogger jm said...

She'll do well as she always does. As I said, if it were my chart and I had will power, I would never in a million years have children. She's lucky she escaped.

But you are absolutely right. If there is a call, and she needs the learning, by all means, get it.

The best approach as I initially said, is to keep expectations reasonable.

With a Moon/Saturn in Scorpio, you probably will never know her exact feelings. But she will continue as she always has...capable and successful.

The NN comes very late if at all, so it really doesn't matter. Usually not at all. The only thing is, is that it's a way to gain self control as we go. Will power over addiction.

7/3/07 6:38 PM  
Blogger jm said...

then she still has something to learn in that area. Only when she learns whatever it is, will it be released. Otherwise, the lesson awaits.

She has planets there, so she probably does have more to learn. The problem again, is that it's so hard to release there. Doing it over and over doesn't seem to change this.

7/3/07 6:41 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The answer could lie in the Neptune in Libra. The square.

I have Pluto in the 5th square mine, and the stage is where I really deal with it.

7/3/07 6:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

So maybe teaching is it.

7/3/07 6:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is also a way to see the extra sense an astrologer can have. I feel completely all the deep longing of that Moon/Saturn in Scorpio and what she's dealing with. You can analyze from a detached perspective, thankfully, but the power of that conjunction is all feeling. How to satisfy the desire is a lifelong process. It will be a combination of things in the end, but most of all, with NN in the 1st, an intense meeting with the self's emotional body, and satisfaction coming from within.

7/3/07 6:53 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"She has planets there, so she probably does have more to learn. The problem again, is that it's so hard to release there. Doing it over and over doesn't seem to change this."

Hmm, yes. That would mean that she would have to scrutinize carefully as things happen. At least, according to my current yoga research. The Mercury in Aquarius should help.

I don't mean to seem unappreciative of your concern. It is interesting to look at. It's only that very few things can frighten me, physical, emotional, mental or spiritual, so I simply don't express a lot of worry. Each of us has already been through a lot, through many lifetimes, so whatever happens becomes part of the journey.

Maybe she'll have a special needs child at some point, who knows.

"The answer could lie in the Neptune in Libra. The square."

So what do you think of the Neptune square in Libra? Is that related to the teaching quality?

We're both good at teaching. We often have to do training in our work. She's been training a couple of new employees recently, in fact. Usually, they go on to more schooling, in nursing or some aspect of dentistry. It's like she's fostering people to advance in their careers and avocations.

"This is also a way to see the extra sense an astrologer can have. I feel completely all the deep longing of that Moon/Saturn in Scorpio and what she's dealing with."

Ah...Now that's astrology. :-)

7/3/07 7:00 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"That's the problem with the south. No matter how much you do it, the regrets still linger."

Well, better to have loved and lost, said the bard.

It's kind of what I think about people who want to go into acting. Sure, the odds may be against many of them, but how else would the few who do shine get to reach their fulfillment if all of the aspirants were dissuaded? So it's tough. We can only lay out what they face, and let them evaluate for themselves as they go along whether it's fulfilling enough or whether they've had enough.

7/3/07 7:04 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's only that very few things can frighten me, physical, emotional, mental or spiritual, so I simply don't express a lot of worry. Each of us has already been through a lot, through many lifetimes, so whatever happens becomes part of the journey.

It' not frightening at all. Quite the opposite. Seeing things somewhat clearly allays fears. It gets more and more so as I learn the science.
I think not expressing worry is a great achievement. It does nothing. I am so much in favor of this.

My input is the ideal, which is unlikely for anyone. When the reality unfolds, we do well. Either way will be about equal in the end, so there is no need to worry.

This is just a map as we go. I personally make decisions according to what I perceive, but this is only for myself.

We can only lay out what they face, and let them evaluate for themselves as they go along whether it's fulfilling enough or whether they've had enough.

Beautifully put.

There is a reason this has come up. I think you have exceptional skill in helping people, so this could be part of it.

I must step out for a moment, but I would like to continue on the Neptune square when I get back.

Your sister's chart is fantastic and full of great potential. Very focused, which I like. For me, every time I see a clear situation around the nodes like this, I get very interested.

I will return.

7/3/07 7:18 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I think you have exceptional skill in helping people, so this could be part of it."

Well, thank you. :-)

Not everyone can be helped, though. So one has to allow for the opportune time, if it comes. Some people are just going to have to go through whatever their issues are.

7/3/07 7:35 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Not everyone can be helped, though. So one has to allow for the opportune time, if it comes. Some people are just going to have to go through whatever their issues are.

Exactly why you're so good at it.

7/3/07 9:30 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Not only are you skilled at helping people sort things out, but you have great innate astrological skills. Really really unusual. Also with the Pisces rising and the NN in the 6th...alchemical skills.

So this is a perfect chance to see how the chart is read, the person found, and then the synthesis.

Let's go back to start.

All the Capricorn. Saturn. Structure and boundaries.

Then we have Mars in Aries..selfishness to the extreme.

Then the big one. The Moon/Saturn in Scorpio. Guilt to the max. Emotional longing to the max. Very often Saturn in Scorpio women have reproductive problems. They usually force the issue and get into bigger trouble. The question is why they have this Saturn block. What to do with the emotional longing and desire to merge completely. How does this fit with the Saturn boundary needs?

That's where the nodes come in.

Moon/Saturn is life lessons around the mother and their own feminine needs. The feeling body.

If the nodes were reversed, the North in Cancer, then emotional bonding and closeness would be in the development stages. The Mars selfishness would be left behind to some extent. The Saturn would be teachng the native how to do this and melt some of the Capricorn boundary.

But in this case we have a NN in the 1st. This means now that the Mars in Aries is being developed, not relinquished as in the previous case. It also means that the boundaries are being developed as well. And that means that the ruling Saturn of all the Capricorn would be teaching how to construct these new boundaries and diminish the emotional need. The South in Cancer is ruled by this Moon, so the Saturn meeting the Moon in the 10th, is the nodes enacted. Cancer/Capricorn. But the North is capricorn..

No babies, no dependent merging, but rather a professional adult use of the emotional knowledge, leading to identity and self actualization.

The native is leaving closeness and finding boundary. The closeness will remain and happen automatically. That's why willful steps toward more bonding are unnecessary.

This is the chart itself and has nothing to do with the person's use of it and the decisions made. That is not revealed in the chart.

The options are infinite. The Neptune in Libra is a great set-up for a partnership in building a school for these children. The scorpio...fundraising and investment to the max. Things like this.

The SN in Cancer is leaving the personal realm and entering society in a bigger way. They usually take steps and then retreat. It all will unfold as it does.

Your part, if Pisces rules the 3rd, is the Neptune up there. Very important. I think you sense this. I think she looks to you for guidance.

7/3/07 9:57 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Wow, that's amazing how you put that together. Thank you. You keep saying I have innate astrological skill, but I don't get nearly that far with interpreting things. :-)

"No babies, no dependent merging, but rather a professional adult use of the emotional knowledge, leading to identity and self actualization."

Even if there are children, I suspect she would never be too dependent, at least not for long.

The desire to achieve in the world is truly marked. She worked her way up, thus she has well-rounded knowledge of her field, unlike many other dentists who don't do hygiene and can't teach it, and who don't touch the business side of their own practices, etc. She's been an assistant, and she's been the boss of other dentists.

She has such a strong will and firm idea of her long-term goals. She's kind of like a director or manager type with kids, too, but somehow they seem to like it.

She did leave home fairly early, well before reaching adulthood, South Node in Cancer or no, completely trusting her own ability to work. She always said that her very early childhood relationship with her father gave her complete confidence in that area. Small as she was, he let her mind the store, handle money, and deal with customers, heheh. She may be passing something of that onto other people, of any age.

"The options are infinite. The Neptune in Libra is a great set-up for a partnership in building a school for these children. The scorpio...fundraising and investment to the max. Things like this."

Well, I think it is possible. She's fairly likely to do things like that, so maybe a big opportunity will present.

She's been participating in the national Dental Awareness Day by offering free services to children. There's a press kit and advertising that she uses. She talks to principals of schools. She offers free services and lessons to children encouraged by the school to visit her offices. The principal tries to select children in most need. So, based on that, I would say that she is definitely suited to continued professional expansion. It will be interesting to see what develops.

7/3/07 10:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Very interesting. The Pluto transits will change a lot of things.

This synthesizing is the most important part of it, and where you have natural skills. I faced the losses and deaths in my life with full awareness because of my knowledge. I have no way of knowing how it would have been otherwise.

It absolutely matters not what any of our siblings do. We are called in to participate at times, and it's good to be aware. My sister has a lot of the same Saturn/Pluto stuff as yours, and now she is deeply unhappy. It hurts, but it's all right. She knows what she's doing deep down.

The Moon/Saturn hurt is so deep, I doubt if even therapists get anywhere near it. Very private. Past life recall is interesting in relation to these things.

But you are very different, although SN in the 12th is similar in leaving emotional stuff behind. Sometimes leaving it alone and not trying to work it out is the best way. My SN in Scorpio is like that. Just forget it and make money, in my case.

You have almost no activity in the sibling/family part of the chart, and I would guess that you don't have to do much of anything. Let it unfold and be there.

But because of your Neptune square, Scorpio, your sis, I think her emotional pull can sometimes be excessive, even if not overt. So it's good to have as much knowledge as possible. Moon/Saturn Scorpios can be very manipulative, even when unaware of it.

The best thing, I think, is to pursue our studies from the detached perspective you and I both enjoy so much. The SN in the 12th...yours...is coming from lifetimes of serving humanity to the 5th house. Being served yourself.

if you'd like me to pick you up in the limo, let me know what time. And I'll even hire a driver!

7/3/07 11:21 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Your node, being Leo, I mean. Even better.

7/3/07 11:22 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The SN in the 12th pretty much joined Jesus on the cross. They've suffered enough.

7/3/07 11:28 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"You have almost no activity in the sibling/family part of the chart, and I would guess that you don't have to do much of anything. Let it unfold and be there."

Well, that is probably true. I typically get called in for emergencies, special occasions, or for work-related issues. :-)

We all live in different states, we're pretty independent of each other.

We communicate most when we have professional questions or are working together on shared projects. I do this with my brother sometimes, in creative and design work. With my sister, it has to do with her practice management systems and sometimes graphics. We're thinking about making educational and promotional animations depicting dental procedures, since I have the skillset and she has the medical knowledge.

7/3/07 11:40 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Our personal lives, though, are pretty much completely separate, except for our father's occasional medical issues or birthdays.

7/3/07 11:41 PM  
Blogger jm said...

She always said that her very early childhood relationship with her father gave her complete confidence in that area. Small as she was, he let her mind the store, handle money, and deal with customers,

That's the Sun in Cap, entirely different from the Moon. The Moon is the guilt about abandoning the female role, and getting too interested in business. But that's her ace. The Moon/Saturn in positioned in the 10th for that purpose. To use the guilt productively in business, and help others. She could have a lot of influence on society, much needed at the moment. Between her and our Colorado friend we'd all be in business.

7/3/07 11:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

We're thinking about making educational and promotional animations depicting dental procedures, since I have the skillset and she has the medical knowledge.

That sounds fantastic. Perfect use of you (Neptune) square her nodes. Business together. Neptune in Libra. Partnership. The T-square resolved for the moment.

7/3/07 11:46 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"So it's good to have as much knowledge as possible. Moon/Saturn Scorpios can be very manipulative, even when unaware of it."

Well, she used to be slightly bossy on occasion, being the eldest, when she felt pressured to ensure that things are taken care of. As adults, we've learned to negotiate well enough. She say that I have the "relax, we'll deal with it" vibe. I think that helps her, actually, because I pretty much know what to do or where to go for the things she doesn't know.

7/3/07 11:49 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The great thing about your life is your freedom. Mine too. You can play it by ear and follow whims. All possibility. It's hard to imagine anything else, probably, but bondage is not for some of us.

That's part of the Moon joop luck and belief in fortune renewing itself as we go. A great gift.

7/3/07 11:50 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Between her and our Colorado friend we'd all be in business."

Intriguing how those kinds of thing turn out!

7/3/07 11:51 PM  
Blogger jm said...

"relax, we'll deal with it" vibe.

I love that one. The fact that she values it, is great.
I want that completely along with the golden curtain.

7/3/07 11:53 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Intriguing how those kinds of thing turn out!

You know, kad. I am a dreamer and even a Pollyanna. Mostly I consider myself Alice in wonderland.

but I believe this meeting of people going on now is special and related to real common interests and the betterment of our troubled society. I do get carried away, but I would love to see some real developments from all of this.

7/3/07 11:56 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I seemed to notice a nonsensical chat thing at first, that is now edging toward thinktankship.

I wonder if the rulers have given up hanging on to their thread realizing what's happening.

7/3/07 11:58 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"if you'd like me to pick you up in the limo, let me know what time. And I'll even hire a driver!"

LOL! One of my clients said that recently, when I said I was too busy to meet with him that week.

"The SN in the 12th pretty much joined Jesus on the cross. They've suffered enough."

Mm, yes. I know I did spiritual work in some recent lifetimes. When I was young, I could feel the pain of a lot of other people.

Just as I sometimes could feel my sister's emotions without seeing or hearing her. She and I could have a telepathy thing going, but I let it lie fallow after a successful test of it. Besides, we actually weren't that close as children, despite the hidden spiritual connections. We had our own things to do, free of interference by anybody else.

But it's like the cross changed into an upright sword along the way. Sort of like Excalibur that shone with the light of thirty torches. It's like if I need it, it hums. It made me sharper and strong. I don't really need to talk about it, though. It would be too hard to explain.

Anyway, it's not even close to being a problem now. I really did work hard on personal growth since childhood. :-)

8/3/07 12:08 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Now you've really got my interest.

I don't see that the sword would be a problem, considering NN in leo. The cross is useless now.

It brings to mind our symbols of defense. I'm looking at a nice, classy suit of armor, myself. Toned down silver, not too shiny.

8/3/07 12:14 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I really did work hard on personal growth since childhood. :-)

The beauty of freedom.

8/3/07 12:15 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"All possibility. It's hard to imagine anything else, probably, but bondage is not for some of us."

It's a lot of independence. A lot of clarity, too. I'm pretty much pleased with it. :-) I do get along really well with certain types. People with Leo energies meant unwanted competition as a child, but they are my friends and supporters as an adult. Interesting, yes?

8/3/07 12:17 AM  
Blogger jm said...

People with Leo energies meant unwanted competition as a child, but they are my friends and supporters as an adult. Interesting, yes?

Yes. I have found this repeatedly. I used to avoid Tauruses completely. Did not like them. Until I moved in next door to one.
The NN is funny that way. When we're ready, here they come. They are our mentors.
I've got one now that I can't stand. She literally walks into me, pushes me out of the way. But deep down, I feel relaxed around her. So funny.

8/3/07 12:28 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I don't see that the sword would be a problem, considering NN in leo. The cross is useless now."

Well, the cross is a good story, but it's all "Been there, done that." I sense the past connection, medieval. It was a cool drama. I understand it thoroughly. Does give me compassion and insight into people struggling with some things. Maybe so that I can help them.

I kind of like the sword, even though I put that down, too, after a while. It's shiny, fiery, and elegant. I think I have other forms for that energy now. It's also the pulsing in the solar plexus that I sometimes get from practicing tai chi -- originally a martial art but mostly practiced for its health and spiritual benefits. So it's interesting how the defense factor transforms into something else.

"It brings to mind our symbols of defense. I'm looking at a nice, classy suit of armor, myself. Toned down silver, not too shiny."

Or it could be like a space suit. Protection from the environment, connected to exploration and another kind of freedom.

8/3/07 12:29 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"but I believe this meeting of people going on now is special and related to real common interests and the betterment of our troubled society."

I think you're right. :-)

"I do get carried away, but I would love to see some real developments from all of this."

Oh, I think it helps. We might not recognize all of the results at first, though. :-)

8/3/07 12:32 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Or it could be like a space suit. Protection from the environment, connected to exploration and another kind of freedom.

Great great thought! This is the one that I'm going to use. Thank you so much, my eloquent pal.

Well, the cross is a good story, but it's all "Been there, done that."

You have.

I understand it thoroughly. Does give me compassion and insight into people struggling with some things. Maybe so that I can help them.


You help them without even trying. More than you know. It naturally flows, which is why the South needs no more work. You know the whole spectrum of suffering.
The Tai chi, yoga, etc. is perfect for the NN 6th. Health is primary. The 12th is sickness and despair, not what you were born for. A new use of your Pisces rising.

Just as I get to develop a new use for my Mars in Libra.

And your sister gets a new Moon!

8/3/07 12:45 AM  
Blogger jm said...

The protection from the environment is the main thing. I'm going to concentrate on it now and get it planted, although I have another idea.
When I'm ready, I believe the environment itself might protect me. It will serve its purposes and I will stick around. I'm already seeing some of this.

8/3/07 12:48 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I love that one. The fact that she values it, is great."

Well, she probably didn't at first. But the type A approach only goes so far in life, and that's when she discovered how helpful I could be.

"I want that completely along with the golden curtain."

Heh. Well, there are many ways to do it.

I just make a simple sphere or cylinder from inside expand out around me. Alternatively, it can be congruent with the surface of the skin, instead of surrounding it. But you can be creative about it.

Some people make it constantly flowing. In that case, the energy flow is out of the top of the head, then over the body, and back up through the legs. Like a torus or donut. If I do it this way, it's more shimmery silvery bluish for me. Someone else told me that hers was more pearlescent.

But that's just the mental directives. I think that the more important thing might be boosting the power, especially if there is a long term weakness in that area.

Certain postures and movements in tai chi automatically direct energy, and focus it in that part of the body, strengthening the will. The mind moves, therefore the body moves. So moving the body properly is the mind doing something.

More energy gets stored there, and the center adapts over time to handling more energy. Then its stronger, you see.

Energy is also absorbed through food, from the air, and through the head, and from base of spine. So some people reach into the sky and the Earth. Golden roots reaching down to the center of the Earth. Light pouring into the crown and flowing into the body. There's more stuff about how the energy circulates within the body, but that gets complicated to remember, and I think this is sufficient to start with.

Additionally, for this one, I like to picture myself as a golden tree in a golden woods. I find it an enjoyable exercise. Probably similar to how people like to bask in physical sunlight.

Blessing the food before eating it is another way to get in practice. I actually direct the flow into the food until I feel that it's charged up. I may do this for rooms, too, before a special gathering. But then the energy seems white to me.

8/3/07 1:01 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"And your sister gets a new Moon!"

Yes. It'll be okay, I think. She's named after the Moon goddess. So it's been all set up from the beginning.

8/3/07 1:10 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Blessing the food before eating it is another way to get in practice. I actually direct the flow into the food until I feel that it's charged up. I may do this for rooms, too, before a special gathering. But then the energy seems white to me.

So simple and I know it works.

And you just did it again, kadi. Without trying, you helped me sort something huge out, from the comments above and the room blessing.

Instead of pitting myself against the environment needing protection, I'm going to consider the rooms my allies. From now on. This is it.

I will enter accordingly, with confidence and no need to retreat.

I can't believe how good you are at this. The sequencing. Or maybe the genuine interest in your fellow humans.

This is great and has now changed my approach permanently. Thank you.

8/3/07 1:11 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Great great thought! This is the one that I'm going to use. Thank you so much, my eloquent pal."

You're welcome. :-)

I watched a couple of videos today. In one of them, that Welsh singer who sang the song "They" ("Who made up all the rules? We follow them like fools.") was depicted floating in zero gravity in a space ship, and she was stripping off her space suit. Kind of sexy, actually.

8/3/07 1:13 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Yes. It'll be okay, I think. She's named after the Moon goddess. So it's been all set up from the beginning.

OMG.

8/3/07 1:15 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Instead of pitting myself against the environment needing protection, I'm going to consider the rooms my allies. From now on. This is it."

Hmm, very interesting. Like the Leo friends thing. Or the transformation from the crucified everyman to the sun-like fiery sword.

"I will enter accordingly, with confidence and no need to retreat."

Well, there was once a woman who dressed as a man. It was an experiment. Went back to work, fooled her former boss who didn't feel that she was as good as a man. She wrote about her experience, and it was made into a movie. One of the statements she made was how different it was for men in those days. The presumptions taken for granted. "The public space is mine to take," she reminded herself, feeling how it could be.

8/3/07 1:19 AM  
Blogger jm said...

yes. Stripping the false protection. Back to zero, one, and minus one.

It IS in the solar plexus, Confidence. I think chemotherapy goes directly for the SP, so cancer must be a breakdown in this area.

That's where the clenching is when we encounter what we perceive as threat in the environment. So that must be halted in order to perform with confidence. the SP can't be knotted.

8/3/07 1:20 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

So just walking on the street was a different experience. :-) The public space is mine to take. A perfect right to be there and head toward one's goal, whatever one chooses that to be.

8/3/07 1:21 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Or the transformation from the crucified everyman to the sun-like fiery sword.

OMG!!! YES!!!!

You are a genius. "The Crucified Everyman." Absolutely great.
It can be done. Leo, Sun and confidence.

8/3/07 1:22 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"OMG."

Oh, yes. Both her first and middle names connect to the Moon goddess. I won't write them out here, to preserve the principle of privacy, but they are. :-)

8/3/07 1:23 AM  
Blogger jm said...

The public space is mine to take. A perfect right to be there and head toward one's goal, whatever one chooses that to be.

Yes. this has been the crux of my problem. Not taking ownership of the space.
No longer. The light just went on. The environment is perfectly satisfactory as is. I'm just adding to it.

8/3/07 1:25 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

It could be like that third entity thing. :-) But for a long term relationship, you should still choose wisely.

"I can't believe how good you are at this. The sequencing. Or maybe the genuine interest in your fellow humans."

The inner images are never too far beneath the surface of the conscious mind. It's like fishing. :-)

Speaking of inner images, time for me to go fish! We do have some fun conversations. I sense much food for creative directions to come. Thank you so much for them! :-)

8/3/07 1:28 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I feel oddly relieved about your sis, and amazingly, an issue with my own is here too. Not so amazing, of course. But this week is sister week for me, and this has helped tremendously. We obviously both care deeply about them. I think you're right. We can trust them and have confidence in their decisions.

It's so easy.

8/3/07 1:28 AM  
Blogger jm said...

We do have some fun conversations. I sense much food for creative directions to come. Thank you so much for them! :-)

I love our conversations. What a touching comment. Thank you too..:-)
And I hope they're biting well!

8/3/07 1:31 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

I'll just add a small note on the energy exercises.

The toroidal form, which for me was transparent bluish silvery, is from people practicing out of body experiences. It's like a flexible envelope, a kind of space suit. But more than simply protection, it is an interface. It has other uses. It reminds me a little of single-celled organisms, such as amoebas.

I associate the golden form of energy with the fiery solar plexus frequencies. The tai chi tradition also uses one of the energy centers, the tan tien, in this part of the body. The tan tien is probably closer to an etheric level, a more structured dimension than that of the chakras.

On a physical level, tai chi teachers point out that here is the center of balance in the body. So maintaining a background awareness of this part of the body is requisite to performing many of the moves in tai chi optimally.

The improved dynamic balance is like a marriage of stability and agility, prerequisites in arts of defensive and engagement.

This is one component of rootedness, and the ability to ground instantly, yet still move lightly on one's feet. Tai chi masters are said to be difficult to topple. There are sensitivity-training exercises where two students try to physically move each other off-balance, while maintaining their own balance and stability. Part of the idea is to be so attuned to the other person that one can anticipate their movements before they physically begin them. At an extreme demonstrated by an aged master, this could mean that one moves one's arms slower than the opponent does and yet they arrive precisely on time to counter the opponent's swifter move.

There are lots of implications to these kinds of things.

In the blessing of food, I feel that the energy rises up into the heart center, and then streams through the arms and out the centers of energy in the palms.

Somehow that is connected to the cruciform feeling because of the involvement of the arms, but there has been a lifting of energy above the levels where worldly status, dominance and hierarchy were major issues. It has risen to the level of a transformative power, and has something to do with the merging of the terrestrial and the celestial, just as unconditional love stands between agape and eros. Something new emerges when the split is healed. So that connects to an esoteric reading of the traditional crucifixion drama, and possibly to older stories of the sacrifice of the solar deity or divine child.

So when I talk about energy, it is not a mechanistic, reductionistic thing, but has mysterious connections to the experience of meaning.

8/3/07 9:38 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I feel oddly relieved about your sis, and amazingly, an issue with my own is here too. Not so amazing, of course. But this week is sister week for me, and this has helped tremendously. We obviously both care deeply about them. I think you're right. We can trust them and have confidence in their decisions.
It's so easy"


Oh, I'm glad. :-) There was an earlier post where I mentioned something about a dream of the Moon Princess.

I later realized, after speaking with a friend who was into astrologer, that it was during a Moon-Saturn-Jupiter conjunction-opposition transit. I had not realized the connection between my dreams and the planets before. Transiting Saturn was conjunct my Moon at the very minute of the dream, and roughly opposite transiting Jupiter.

The princess was calling off her engagement because, as she told her fiance, she had other plans and things to do. That was when my sister was heading for a divorce. But for me, my dreams were simultaneously glowing with support for my own life direction and my own changing relationships. So there is a kind of holodynamic thing going on, where beings that seem separate go through thematically related changes.

8/3/07 9:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it is not a mechanistic, reductionistic thing, but has mysterious connections to the experience of meaning.

I just wanted to see that again. sigh of serenity

Astrid

8/3/07 10:27 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"...or divine child." I should better say, "...or the birth/rebirth of the divine child." May have something tangential to do with the winter solstice myths, as in the song title, "Jesus was a Capricorn", and the sacrificial scapegoat. :-)

8/3/07 11:12 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

it is not a mechanistic, reductionistic thing, but has mysterious connections to the experience of meaning.

"I just wanted to see that again."

Enjoy! ;-)

8/3/07 11:16 AM  
Blogger jm said...

. Transiting Saturn was conjunct my Moon at the very minute of the dream, and roughly opposite transiting Jupiter.

Very very interesting.

The princess was calling off her engagement because, as she told her fiance, she had other plans and things to do.

There's something going on, with this major sister thing of mine going on as well. I always like to delve into the truth of the matter...love it... but I'm not sure others do. Disappointing to me because so much can be learned through honest shared insight.

It just so happens that saturn is just about back on your NN of the "Moon". opposing that crucified everyman South in the 12th.

So it must be bigger than your sister. This is getting interesting. Neptune (natural ruler of 12th) has just passed your south for good. Pluto just in your 10th.

I see something here.

8/3/07 1:50 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The fascinating discussion we had about your 12th house node has struck a chord with me. Interesting that we never discussed it before. Your understanding amazes me. And the transits now are an opportunity.

The sisters seem to be conduits as Saturn is now back on its last visit to my natal Saturn in Leo.

We both have a situation where we are leaving some of the Pisces merging with others, and as I mentioned, finding a new use for Neptune, probably more in an artistic expression.

I know exactly what my sister's problem is, but I can't do anything about it. What I'm learning is to let it not make me suffer. Try not to.

8/3/07 1:57 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The improved dynamic balance is like a marriage of stability and agility, prerequisites in arts of defensive and engagement.

As an Aries rising, Mars conjunct Neptune, I am very interested in this. I've long approached life like a dancer, and agility has been a major interest. Stability probably is the next step.

I think we got there last night in that the best defense is no defense. It frees up energy for other things. I think it would mean that the defense is so natural and ingrained, that no effort is required.

I look to the best warrior tactics, which lead the person to the lack of necessity for conflict.
I might be headed there. I've noticed an absence of interest in quarreling lately.

This is odd, too. Before I engaged with the public I was angry. But now that I'm here, I have a surprising interest in cooperation.

Could be that their contentiousness outdoes mine so much, that I see its pitfalls clearly..:-)

Everyday in the arena, the news is about someone slamming someone else, and it's gotten ludicrous to me in its lack of balance.

8/3/07 2:04 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Part of the idea is to be so attuned to the other person that one can anticipate their movements before they physically begin them. At an extreme demonstrated by an aged master, this could mean that one moves one's arms slower than the opponent does and yet they arrive precisely on time to counter the opponent's swifter move.

OMG!!! This is it exactly!! Thank you once again kadimiros.

This explains my adherence to slow speed, which I still sense is the best. The group effort to speed me up could be undermining my effectiveness.

I've always been good at anticipating with my quick processing of sense impressions. But too swift movements often miss the target. They can be inefficient.

In the night clubs when it gets busy, some bartenders pick up speed and make blunders. The ones who maintain the same steady pace with monor variation, do much much better. It takes a master to refuse to match the speed with the FLUX, but to know the optimum speed. Of course, sometimes fast is required, but that will be clear.

Very very good.

8/3/07 2:12 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Somehow that is connected to the cruciform feeling because of the involvement of the arms,

More on this in a bit. The shoulder socket is the thing, as it influences the neck and then the brain.

8/3/07 2:15 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"It just so happens that saturn is just about back on your NN of the "Moon". opposing that crucified everyman South in the 12th."

Well, the first time would have been around my mid-teens. I was learning about the world, and through my readings being exposed to things that brought back glimmerings of esoteric knowledge from the ancient past. It was great!

High school was semi-boring (I just breezed through it almost at the very top of my class, just about two persons away from valedictorian, which suited me perfectly), although I used it to begin developing my creative skills and talents in such a way as to be able to make a living from them. So there was some early laying down of foundations for the future, and how to negotiate my way through the world. And part of it was that I had this whole other realm with which to experiment.

So the Saturn connection is a mystical one for me, in that it seems to be connected to my form of higher intuition and creativity. It may not work that way for most people in the West who have a different relationship to the teacher and to material reality, but in Eastern traditions Saturn is not just a mean old man. I think that he could also represent the yogi who has self-mastery, and therefore concentrated mental powers.

8/3/07 5:26 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I know exactly what my sister's problem is, but I can't do anything about it. What I'm learning is to let it not make me suffer. Try not to."

I think that even that will help. If you immersed in her suffering or problem, that would make it worse for both of you.

But I believe one can still have compassion, which is sometimes called suffering with others, without actually being lost in it. The power of art to put even terrible feelings into an implied context transmutes them.

8/3/07 5:37 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Everyday in the arena, the news is about someone slamming someone else, and it's gotten ludicrous to me in its lack of balance."

That reminds me of that Ron Howard movie about boxing, the one starring Russell Crowe as James Braddock. :-)

8/3/07 5:41 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Oh yes, Cinderella Man. That was the title.

8/3/07 5:43 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Saturn is not just a mean old man. I think that he could also represent the yogi who has self-mastery, and therefore concentrated mental powers.

I think yes. Because I see Saturn as the matrix, the basic structure of all our actions, and the central support, I also get the element of focus and concentration. Consolidation.

Saturn is entirely self mastery in the chart, more than just the physical skills.

The point being, that once this foundation is established we are free to explore the other dimensions. A wobbly inner structure will draw attention constantly downward and inward to correct it.

So what is this saying about your NN in Leo now and the "crucified everyman" that still exists but does not need to be used actively?

Saturn is mastery over the material realm and the start, I think, of the move beyond. The concentric rings seem to represent this progressive move outward, while also serving to protect the inner structure.

Maybe in this Cancer country, the society has depended on a parental figure to take care of the structure, and now there is no one doing it as we approach Pluto in capricorn. It's an interesting interlude as the people search for stability, being used to having all their needs provided for.

I feel relieved when Saturn is around.

8/3/07 5:46 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

You know, I was reading last night that the square is associated with Saturn, having similar qualities, and that Pluto after it was discovered took over many of the keywords traditionally assigned to Saturn.

I came across an allusion to older astrological tradition where the square sometimes had the quality of a sextile or trine under specific conditions. It's a little complex to absorb, so I hope to find a detailed explanation of it eventually.

8/3/07 5:47 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The slamming boxing match is interesting. I realize it's just politicians doing what they always do, but it speaks of a larger approach to problem solving in societies.
It's simply the brute with the club getting the obstacle out of the way.

Saturn figures in. Saturn teaches us to face the obstacle, get to know it, and ideally incorporate whatever good we can from it. The immediate impulse to slam is problematic. back to the arms.

8/3/07 5:50 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"So what is this saying about your NN in Leo now and the "crucified everyman" that still exists but does not need to be used actively?"

Well, I guess I will find out how it manifests. But maybe we can associate it too with the expansion of the brow center that I mentioned recently. Connecting to ideas and events, and space-time becoming less of a barrier.

8/3/07 5:53 PM  
Blogger jm said...

was reading last night that the square is associated with Saturn, having similar qualities, and that Pluto after it was discovered took over many of the keywords traditionally assigned to Saturn.

THAT is fascinating.

The devil factor. Actually there is confusion between Pluto and Saturn about death. Saturn is time, the grim reaper, etc. and the guide to death. Pluto takes charge after death.

8/3/07 5:53 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I think overall, Saturn is our best guide through the maze of confusion we all experience. The order he represents is an offering if we are willing to enter the sort of machine-like structure needed to gain the mastery.

8/3/07 5:56 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Interestingly, the story of the boxer was from the Great Depression. For some, it was a way to escape being destroyed by poverty, and uplift their families. For others, it was about ego and dominance. Still others found their personal inspiration to persevere despite the overwhelming circumstances of those times.

8/3/07 5:57 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Connecting to ideas and events, and space-time becoming less of a barrier.

It's possible that with your 12th house node, you are actually moving toward space and time and not even seeing it as a question of barrier. The Capricorn indicates this. Escaping the confines in previous lives, but now embracing space and time as the way to this self-mastery.

8/3/07 6:00 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Interestingly, the story of the boxer was from the Great Depression

Hmmmm. Could it be that we are in a metaphoric one now, trying to punch our way out? I can see this is not going to work. The ring is becoming a place of empty ritual. The Swiftboat game seemed to be the pinnacle.

8/3/07 6:03 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"THAT is fascinating."

Yes, it is. I had never questioned it too much before. But it had to have happened.

There's also a trace of Moon in Pluto's keywords. They're both netherworld, I suppose.

Today, astrologers say that Neptune is a higher octave of Venus, but many Neptunean keywords come from those traditionally assigned to the Moon. Uranus blended some Mars and Mercury keywords.

8/3/07 6:15 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There is a lifelessness in the environment now.

I read an article by Merle Haggard about performing. he said there was no life left in the night life, and no places to perform. He's right in a way, and the end came when they took away the smoke and fire of the cigarettes. You can feel the zombieness easily if you've been in clubs like I have.
Not saying right or wrong, just that warmth and liveliness are gone. You can also see this in the mechanized dance clubs of today.

Perhaps this is why people have turned to the computer screen searching for the caveman fire we all need.

Where is Prometheus when we need him!!

8/3/07 6:17 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Could it be that we are in a metaphoric one now, trying to punch our way out? I can see this is not going to work. The ring is becoming a place of empty ritual."

Seems to be the higher lesson from it, becoming obvious to many. :-)

8/3/07 6:19 PM  
Blogger jm said...

As far as keywords go, there are many astrologers, lots who don't feel the entities, and place too much importance on the words. All the planets have their individuality. I don't do the higher octave thing. Venus is Venus.

8/3/07 6:20 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Seems to be the higher lesson from it, becoming obvious to many. :-)

Yes. I think it's time to face it. The upswing of anti-depressants was the harbinger. It has pushed the depression back down to gain power, and I sense it's release now. Certainly Pluto in Cap will do this.

There's a lot to look forward to if the populace can reconnect with joy. Anything's possible..:-)

8/3/07 6:22 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The point being, that once this foundation is established we are free to explore the other dimensions."

It's also having reference points by which to navigate. Like the stars. Then the personality can feel comfortable that it can find its way back.

"A wobbly inner structure will draw attention constantly downward and inward to correct it."

Drawing attention to what needs correction. Excellent point.

8/3/07 6:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I was resisting the full recognition of the down cycle out there, but it's there, no doubt.
I will have to figure something out since the clubs have changed dramatically recently. They aren't about to swing back to life just yet, so I will have to adjust. Could be good for me. Who can tell..:-)

8/3/07 6:25 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Society in transition, definitely. Always opportunities in the chaos when the existing framework is renovated.

8/3/07 6:33 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Not saying right or wrong, just that warmth and liveliness are gone. You can also see this in the mechanized dance clubs of today."

After it was recently reported that McDonald's coffee tastes better than Starbucks' coffee, the head of Starbucks wrote to senior executives that their brand had lost its soul during their rapid expansion, and that they needed to return to a sense of neighborhood and intimacy. He complained that he had heard some of their new locations described as sterile, without the soul their outlets once had.

8/3/07 6:38 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Always opportunities in the chaos when the existing framework is renovated.

Good point.

This is getting interesting again. Be back shortly.

It is very interesting, in fact, thinking about the framework and specifics about finding a place in it, not waiting for any particular change.

8/3/07 6:38 PM  
Blogger jm said...

the head of Starbucks wrote to senior executives that their brand had lost its soul during their rapid expansion, and that they needed to return to a sense of neighborhood and intimacy.

Really??????

He complained that he had heard some of their new locations described as sterile, without the soul their outlets once had.

Yup. It will reach its limit.

Keep talking. This is great information.
I don't think there's any doubt that people will return to small community. That's already happening.

8/3/07 6:42 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Really??????"

Yes. He used damning words like "cookie-cutter."

Because, as you know (and to borrow a quip I read), Starbucks is in the fashion business. Just like many other companies.

8/3/07 6:54 PM  
Blogger jm said...

But the people patronize these sterile places almost to the exclusion of the more human ones. I wonder why. The sameness must be some sort of security for them.

8/3/07 9:47 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Well people like to complain about the corporate stores but society created them. It could be related to their need for authority and uniformity. Knowing some central control is taking care of them and the sameness is reassuring.
Knowing you can go into a store in NY, then one in Montana and find the same thing in about the same place. Secretly, almost everyone supports this.

8/3/07 9:59 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

There's ease of use and streamlined convenience. People know what to expect. But it can be overdone, of course. If there's nothing unique, then other companies can easily compete for the same customers.

8/3/07 10:00 PM  
Blogger jm said...

If there's nothing unique, then other companies can easily compete for the same customers.

That's where they are now and headed for trouble. They will drive one another out. I've always thought the self destruct was written in, and the small guy could just go about his business in his own sphere. The only thing I wish would change, would be that people would be willing to pay slightly more for the small man's product. But they won't.

Whole Foods just swallowed up Wild Oats, but I think there are plusses and minuses to this. I don't like the attitude of Whole Foods, and after the buy-out I decided not to shop there at all. I usually don't do this, but I really don't like the store. I feel good about the decision.

8/3/07 10:07 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Part of Starbucks' problem is that they used to be more interesting, which led to their success, but they lost some of that along the way, trading it for rapid growth. So this does make them more vulnerable to competition and criticism.

8/3/07 10:09 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I don't like the attitude of Whole Foods, and after the buy-out I decided not to shop there at all. I usually don't do this, but I really don't like the store. I feel good about the decision."

I don't really care for Whole Foods in my town. A lot of young people go there, though. It offers a lot in one place, but I don't need much. Many of the same brands can be found no more than a few streets away in smaller neighborhood stores, and for less, so there's no need for me to walk farther.

8/3/07 10:14 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The whole thing is, everything follows a natural sequence. Birth, growth, decay, and death. So the faster they grow, the faster they will die. Doesn't this bother them? Don't they see the value of slow growth? Or are they taking all they can get and running, not caring about the future?
I could never understand this. I do know, though, that high-stakes merging is exciting, and this could be the motivation. Fast, cheap thrills. A favorite.

8/3/07 10:17 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

I think that a few companies do. They have happy workers. But we usually hear little about them. :-)

8/3/07 10:20 PM  
Blogger jm said...

When the huge Whole Foods opened here right in my neighborhood, I was struck by its abundant vulgarity immediately as I entered. Red snapper piled to the ceiling. I knew then, but I still shopped there a little.

Wild Oats started here in Boulder, and was an enjoyable place to shop for years. It went downhill and you could sense the decay. So it's no wonder it was eaten.

But another store that started years ago in Colorado, called "Vitamin Cottage" stayed small, with a great business philosophy, and they are thriving still. This is a good sign.

8/3/07 10:22 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Costco also is the wave of the future, I hope. They are doing very well.

I get a vibe in every store, and I think I should be ethical and shop in good ones. The vibe in Whole Foods is extremely bad. They put out prepared foods, then station people to police the area, making sure not a morsel of food connects with the mouth, and it's creepy.

Then again, it encourages self mastery and appetite control..:-)

8/3/07 10:27 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

I like unique stores. I wish my area would reverse course, but it seems not likely to happen soon. I may have to move! LOL

8/3/07 10:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

WHAT!!!!!!

You'll never move.

8/3/07 10:34 PM  
Blogger jm said...

OK. Theoretically. If you did move, where would it be?

8/3/07 10:35 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

California has come up several times over the years in impressions of the future. Somewhere north of San Francisco. But I seem to be married in some of those versions of the future.

Also, the precise occupation seems to change. In one, I'm almost like an engineer. In another, I'm learning something to do with acupuncture points, however, I'm not sure about that one, because the thought of memorizing information on all those points sounds awful tedious.

None of them have happened yet, so who knows. There may be more possibilities waiting in the wings. Generally, there's a sense of living in a warmer climate.

8/3/07 10:49 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Do you want to move?

8/3/07 10:53 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

I've moved about ten times in my life. I could do it again. :-) This neighborhood has had a nice creative energy to it, but it's changed over the years. I do like the idea of living in a warmer climate for a while, and I did like San Francisco when I visited.

If it fades a lot more, then I think it may be time to move on.

I just noticed that Condomania is gone! I didn't frequent it, but I liked that it was there. LOL!

Currently, I'm attached to my friends here, and my godchildren.

So I would want to stay close for some time, unless it's that I can make cross-country flights, say, on business.

The business persona working with new frequencies for communications or televised programs could have done that. But that possibility seems to depend on the course of larger events yet to be determined, changes in the industry and in regulation of frequencies. I'm not counting on it at this point, although there's something exciting about getting into a new business.

Another possibility is if I start a new relationship. Somehow that connects to traveling west, maybe to Hawaii again, and to living just above San Francisco. Something about a marriage, but I can't imagine whose wedding that would be. There is a branch of the family on the West Coast, but I don't think I've seen them since I was a tot. I used to know people in San Francisco, but they've moved to Boston, I think. And a few others I've lost touch with over the years.

I suppose if the old man working with the acupuncture points is real, and not just symbolic, I wouldn't mind learning from him. He's not using needles, but seems to be working with the body's energy points directly. I seem to have some potential, but I'll have to learn from doing. I can't imagine taking a traditional route and studying from books. Although, I suppose if I had someone who could explain the books and demonstrate, it would be tolerable.

8/3/07 11:32 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

A couple of years ago, I did hear of a friend of a friend trying to do something new that has to do with opening up communications frequencies for business purposes, but nothing has moved on that front as far as I know.

Oh, wait. There's more.

Something about a company moving from the West Coast. Maybe opening up a new branch on the East Coast, maybe in New York. And my possibly having to travel to Washington D.C. or nearby.

Generally, a broadening influence. International connections.

And a sense that I could form a new relationship through work. Or maybe it's a relationship that leads to a new line of work.

Not sure if that's all tied together dependently, but maybe it's the themes that are more important.

8/3/07 11:47 PM  
Blogger jm said...

So the answer to the question is: ?

9/3/07 12:09 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

The answer is "Eventually." :-)

People, work and avocation are more important than the exact location. I think I will move at least a few times more.

9/3/07 12:14 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Have you ever owned property?

9/3/07 12:20 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

No, but I've always liked the idea of owning property someday.

And designing a house, and building it. I usually picture it having a spiral staircase and tall windows. Lots of wood.

My brother has a degree in architectural design, so I could enlist his help. I'm trained in good draftsmanship and I helped him draw building plans once when he ran late on a class project.

My best friend has worked on building houses when he was younger. I could get his advice, too. He's currently a businessman working in the merchant accounts industry and with information technology.

So there are images fanning out from seeds in the present. Seeds that could sprout under the right care and conditions.

9/3/07 12:28 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

But definitely, I do think that property will come in at some point. Could be owning an apartment even, if I stay in this area.

9/3/07 12:31 AM  
Blogger jm said...

So there are images fanning out from seeds in the present. Seeds that could sprout under the right care and conditions.

Sounds good. It's amazing how those seedlings follow us everywhere.

9/3/07 1:26 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Interesting too. Tonight's Scorpio Moon had me on that part of the cycle, but after tomorrow, the seeds will be watered.

Which reminds me...my plants!!!

9/3/07 1:27 AM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

Gee, one of my clients just called and asked me to terminate one of her employees' computer user accounts.

Then she complained about how everything is suddenly uncertain in her life. It's all falling apart for her, professionally and personally. She's admitting to a looming marital separation from her husband, who is also her partner in business.

Then she asked my opinion on how long it would take for her to sort things out. So I gave her one. I usually don't put myself in a situation to give that kind of advice, though.

It looks like the transiting Moon is squaring transiting Neptune and transiting Saturn at this time.

The transiting Sun is conjunct the natal Ascendant in my chart, and the transiting Moon is squaring the natal lunar nodes.

Not sure what else is going on.

I think I'll look for another charting software; I want a better visualization.

9/3/07 10:46 AM  
Blogger jm said...

OMG!

I told you what it is. It's the nodal transit and the "crucified everyman", help the suffering (when they don't really want to be helped), give them therapy they won't use, feel their pain to no avail, and stay strapped to the cross in the 12th house.

Other than that, probably just a daily Moon transit..:-)

Then she asked my opinion on how long it would take for her to sort things out. So I gave her one. I usually don't put myself in a situation to give that kind of advice, though.

Wise. You don't know how much of her information is accurate, either.

On the other hand, NN in Leo is asking for ego at the moment. Do have any? Any to spare... my Saturn needs some.

9/3/07 2:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I think I'll look for another charting software; I want a better visualization.

Yes. It's so much fun with you and your natural instincts for astrology.

The visual is important. I learned on the old dot matrix charts and I loved them. Large and full of empty space. The figures were also light colored so this encouraged my intuition. It's a good thing I was an expert by the time they disappeared. I haven't found any charts I like as much.

9/3/07 2:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"crucified everyman", help the suffering (when they don't really want to be helped), give them therapy they won't use, feel their pain to no avail, and stay strapped to the cross in the 12th house.

Oh my! This is my greatest lesson!

Astrid

9/3/07 3:16 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Astrid!! OMG!!!

You and me both! It's our Saturns in Leo, among other things. When will we learn?

You mentioned Neptune, as I recall..:-)

Multiple choice:
1. artistry
2. suffering
3. artistry and joy

9/3/07 3:29 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"It's the nodal transit and the 'crucified everyman', help the suffering (when they don't really want to be helped), give them therapy they won't use, feel their pain to no avail, and stay strapped to the cross in the 12th house."

LOL!!! It's okay. I told her that things will be clearer in about two months, and gave her the number of my sister's therapist, the one who happens to be clairvoyant. She'll be in good hands. :-) And if it turns out that she doesn't follow good advice, then at least she'll be paying a professional therapist to listen to her.

I wonder if I can neutralize or invert polarities.

If I look at my natal chart, I see:

Venus + Mars = feminine + masculine

Mercury + Saturn = youth + age, quick + careful

Moon + Jupiter = container/medium for growth + expansion/growth, reflectent + radiant

"On the other hand, NN in Leo is asking for ego at the moment. Do have any? Any to spare... my Saturn needs some."

Me? Ego? What ego? :-/ Maybe you need to speak to my alter-ego.

Um, you can try simple things. If you feel sensitivity in the solar plexus, try rubbing that area gently in circles. Imagine you are softly adding warm, relaxing energy to that area. Breathe abdominally. Wearing gold metal or golden stones might be helpful. Keep something in front of you that reminds you of the feeling of confidence. Could be something with a warm, cheery color on your desk within your field of vision. Could be a Tarot card, such as Strength, The Chariot, or The Sun.

Then do something that is rewarding and yields positive results. Don't pick something too easy nor too difficult. What you are after is the feeling of success. Savor it and let it linger when you have it. Contemplate it just before you sleep.

And this is basic stuff you may know, but when you are practicing to improve something, anything, if you need to stop, try to stop at a point where you feel successful and your body/mind has the lingering imprint of a good performance. For example, if you're practicing a tai chi kick, make the last kick a good one. Don't let a misstep or fumbled move be the last thing. Make a corrected move, then move on to something else. Make success and the feeling of success a habit.

9/3/07 3:47 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Ha ha ha ha!!

Me? Ego? What ego? :-/ Maybe you need to speak to my alter-ego.

Either one!

THIS is the key.

Don't let a misstep or fumbled move be the last thing. Make a corrected move, then move on to something else. Make success and the feeling of success a habit.

I believe that full mastery would allow for the fumble to remain. The insecurity makes the step toward correction. The fact is, the correction will occur anyway, as well as the next fumble.

I want to see it all as equal, and mistakes are perfectly acceptable within reason. The letdown after one can be excessive. that is the place to go, I feel, even more than covering it up with a success.

Sucess, after all, is not based on these details. It's in the beloved "whole".

I wonder if I can neutralize or invert polarities.

Why would you want to?
Interesting breakdown.

9/3/07 3:58 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Wearing gold metal or golden stones might be helpful.

I have a strong aversion to jewelry. I was a slave most definitely, because of the knowledge of shackling. But also I know about the trade of wealth for marriage, in relation to jewels. I feel foolish in a way when I wear these things. The for sale sign is obvious.

Now, of course, sales might be good at this point. I would need some to even procure these solar plexed objects.

9/3/07 4:03 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Why would you want to?
Interesting breakdown."


Well, remember, when we were talking about portals or doors. The null point or equilibrium is where it becomes easier to move in any direction of one's choosing.

9/3/07 4:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I was thinking about the raised arms in relation to the SP. This might work a bit. When you raise the arms, it stretches the ab muscles around the area, along with the uplifting sensation.

This is fascinating. I'm going to do an experiment. Everytime I get the fear, I'll raise my arms and stretch all the way up.

This is going to be very very intriguing.

9/3/07 4:11 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"I have a strong aversion to jewelry."

Mm, jewelry as shackling? Aversion is a kind of tie to something, too.

Okay, though jewelry can have other connotations. A halo-like crown is a symbol of the aura around the head.

Maybe something else that is of gold or golden? :-) I like sunflowers.

9/3/07 4:14 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The null point or equilibrium is where it becomes easier to move in any direction of one's choosing.

Good point. But that place is there with the polarities as is. So you don't have to touch those. just recognize the neutral point.

I go back, however, to your nodes and other factors, which is staying within the confines and seeing the freedom there. The SN 12th seeks too much escape, having known it well in previous lifetimes when it worked. Being born with so much saturn and Uranus is learning to apply the freedom within the structure.

So the polarities are allies in this learning.

9/3/07 4:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd love to discuss my chart jm, but I'm just not willing to post the birth data on the world wide webb. I'd send it to you, but you have no e-mail listed. Phooey.

Kad, you're really a nice person. jm has attracted wonderful spirits.

Astrid

9/3/07 4:17 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"Everytime I get the fear, I'll raise my arms and stretch all the way up."

That's a good idea! Try palms upward, like you are a plant receiving light. But keep the feet flat and well balanced on the floor.

9/3/07 4:18 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Maybe something else that is of gold or golden? :-) I like sunflowers.

I'm not much for these symbols, although they work for some. The colors themselves I do favor, so fabrics and clothes would probably work.

A gold satin suit would be fine. Just wonderful. must get into the costume shop. I have some luscious gold rayon satin waiting on the bolt.

Thanks for this directive.

9/3/07 4:18 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Astrid! no prob. I can sense it.

I'm waiting until I get enough self-discipline around e-mail to start that wonderful exchange again fully. But I'm in central lock-up at the moment.

9/3/07 4:20 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That's a good idea! Try palms upward, like you are a plant receiving light. But keep the feet flat and well balanced on the floor.

Interesting about the palms. That changes the dynamics right beneath the shoulder socket, all connected to the plexus. The whole trunk.
The direction of the hands makes a big difference too.

9/3/07 4:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hear you.

Central lock-up sounds awful, but I suppose if it is self-imposed then it brings you happiness.

Astrid

9/3/07 4:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

But keep the feet flat and well balanced on the floor.

Here it is. The best way.

Arms up and then down to the floor, palms flat in front of the feet. That should do it.

9/3/07 4:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

happiness.

Ha ha ha ha ha!!! LOL!!!

I recognize the word though. It's English, I believe.

Me and central lock-up go a long way back. Everytime I've spoken the truth I've ended up there, not self-imposed, at least on the surface.

Aries rising has a military approach to discipline. I know now when it's for my own good, and I can self impose.

Happiness is a whole other domain. An emotion. Comes and goes.

9/3/07 4:30 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The insecurity makes the step toward correction."

Actually, I feel that it has more to do with how memory is imprinted in the brain in learning. The potential for reactiveness is there, but is another issue.

9/3/07 4:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I'm not seeking happiness. I'm seeking relaxation. Not easy for a Martian, but necessary with a NN in Taurus.

9/3/07 4:32 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Actually, I feel that it has more to do with how memory is imprinted in the brain in learning.

Could be. A lot of correction marks are on our papers all stored in the vaults. Red and loud.

9/3/07 4:34 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"The colors themselves I do favor, so fabrics and clothes would probably work."

Okay, that's a good solution.

The gold metal does have a virtue of its own on a molecular level, separate from the color, which is why I specifically mentioned it.

9/3/07 4:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All that desire I have to help and heal is kicking in jm.

I hear happiness in your words and see it in your choice in art. Evrerything about you is good and happy.

Astrid

9/3/07 4:36 PM  
Blogger Kadimiros said...

"A lot of correction marks are on our papers all stored in the vaults. Red and loud."

Hmm, I guess I don't have that negative or reactive relationship to "correction".

Painting is a process of successive refinement, so you could also think of it as "refinement." But, as you please. :-)

9/3/07 4:36 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The main lesson with Tuarus/Scorpio nodes is to keep pain at a minimum...DO NOT SEEK IT... and then the natural relaxation of the muscles will follow. Contentment then comes, and life is good.

The ultimate is a natural avoidance of pain, knowing that we've had enough and learned from it adequately. But also letting it through when it must come. In and out the door.

9/3/07 4:37 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I hear happiness in your words and see it in your choice in art.

It's so good to hear and say the word. You are wise astrid.

I have to say that people do make me happy, and I have gotten lucky here.

9/3/07 4:39 PM  
Blogger jm said...

You know, astrid. The strangest thing. I've been singing extemporaneously lately....that's the sign of happiness.

9/3/07 4:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tuarus/Scorpio nodes

I can relate.

Astrid

9/3/07 4:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Singing is absolutely a sign of happiness jm, and communication as well.

Astrid

9/3/07 4:43 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Hmm, I guess I don't have that negative or reactive relationship to "correction".

Of course not. You're a Capricorn.

Refinement is a good word for it. Correction is delicate. To know when enough is enough.

9/3/07 4:44 PM  

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