Sunday, February 18, 2007

South Node in Taurus or the Second House

The South Node in Taurus is an habitual clinging to attachments that prevent the leaps and bounds of the revolutionary changes they know they want. They plod along with the status quo, often doing things the hardest way, finding it difficult to release and make the clean breaks necessary to move into the unknown and find fulfillment. The material realm is their safety net that prevents passage into the spiritual realms they know are waiting for them, if they could only make the required sacrifices. They fear losing their grip.
The grip. Baggage comes with us on our journeys, but the Taurus SN takes the biggest bag possible. Filled with things they don't need, they are weighed down with the excess, but find it difficult to eliminate. This doesn't mean objects, necessarily, just the burden of carrying around what doesn't really satisfy them anymore....things, people, ideas, jobs, houses, everything. What's mine is mine forever. The age-old memory of a secure grasp is what holds them back from opening and receiving an even greater security.

Fear of poverty. Financial control. SN Taureans have an ancient terror of being in want, and in this life, they must have financial control 'at all costs'. They often say they are afraid of not being able to pay the bills even when fully employed with a hefty bank account, and sometimes residing in a million dollar home. Many work overtime to keep the imaginary wolves from the door. The bill collector is the devil around every corner.
Security, comfort, and self reliance. These nodeholders have a compulsion to support themselves, often finding it next to impossible to relinquish their self-sufficiency and melt into the supportive embrace of others, no matter how much the others truly want to help them. Even when they appear to accept this help, they withold trust, and stay stubbornly self-centered.They cling to the security they know and prefer cushioning to the sometimes agonizing upheaval of real change.
Prostitution. Taurus SNs know everything there is to know about the exchange of money. They understand fully the dirty dealings and just what is takes to make a buck. Sometimes I think they were there at the ancient temples when the game heated up, and they know how money is bartered for sex, both overtly and subtley, and used as a psychological tool to manipulate, dangle and humiliate. They know what the mortgage holder is really about. There is often a world-weariness in this pursuit of financial security.
Self worth. These people have spent many years establishing their value and putting a price on it, but while they know this from their own perspective in practical terms, they are sometimes unsure of their value in other ways, and to different types of people. They can overestimate or sometimes come up short. Comparisons can cause them distress until they recognize what others have to offer and merge these talents with their own, releasing some of the pressure to work hard to prove themselves, as the basis of their self-worth undergoes complete re-working.

Appetites. The translation of sense impressions to physical desire and an urge to possess and consume can lead the SN Taurus to a life of so-called pleasures that really don't provide contentment. While not always over-doers or collectors of too many commodities, they still know that the appetite for the non-material offers the rewards they are really seeking. If only they could take the packed grip with them.
Resistance to change. Taurus SNs often speak of the wonders of change, and even appear to make them, but so many times they don't change in the fundamental ways that would bring them new life and joy. They are reluctant to merge with new experience fully, and frequently find themselves back where they started. They know pain is part of the process of transforming, but sometimes even after experiencing pain, they hold back from the full step out, feeling depleted, hurt, and shortchanged.

SN Taureans are masters of the material plane of existence, with a profound understanding of the earth and its pleasures. This grounding serves them well as they now seek emotional, psychological, and spiritual fulfillment, release from themselves, and deep merging with life's greatest offerings. Next: the North Node in Scorpio. A good one.

77 Comments:

Anonymous Joe said...

Does one's Sun sign correspond with the opposite sign much, or at all? Much of what you say about Taurus' fear of want seems to ring bells for me. For example, I have this pathological fear of running out of gas in my car or not having enough to pay my bills. Maybe it's early conditioning, as we were somewhat poor when I was growing up.

Anyway, since Taurus is opposite my Sun in Scorpio, I just wonder if there's a "ping" or an echo from the other side of the chart.

18/2/07 7:27 AM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Excellent question Joe. Somewhat goes to my observation that every man in my life has had the 2/8 node axis, and /or taurus / scorpio. It is almost as if they arrive on the threshold looking for that Scorp Venus in my 8th that will guide them to the deep merging they long for yet fear. What an eye-opener. The pattern of similarity i saw but the astrology settles it into such clarity. I wonder if my Venus can take this wisdom and put it to better use?

18/2/07 7:36 AM  
Blogger Neith said...

Uranus on my IC yanked me back into family doings, and I come back to visit & find jm has done it again!! Another masterly analysis of the SN in Taurus!

The beauty of jm's gift for analysis of each sign applies whether the Nodes are involved or not. That's why a book from her would be sitting right on my shelf next to Lutin's SunShines & Betty Lundsted's books.

It may be the 8th house involved in both of your charts?! I will leave this to jm to answer. For me there is some resonance because Taurus & Scorpio are the signs on the cusps of the 6th, 7th, 12th & ASC (intercepted houses using the Koch House system & being born in more northerly latitudes), so the lessons of those signs are emphasized in my chart.

Now I have to go back & do some serious reading of comments . . . pure pleasure!!! :-) Plus get a dessert made for us . . .

18/2/07 9:11 AM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Remember the last Mars retrograde in Taurus? What happens when the ruler of the house of the NN criss-crosses the south node, a push perhaps to the north? Looking, in each case, there was a "destruction" of some "possession" they valued.

Going to look deeper.

18/2/07 9:38 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I am so deeply pleased I can hardly find words. These questions are great. I'm getting settled and will be back in a minute.

18/2/07 1:42 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Does one's Sun sign correspond with the opposite sign much?

Yes. Sometimes we avoid the opposite, sometimes we attract. I think there are periods when we are fully immersed in the lessons of the Sun sign, and others when we seek balance. But the axis always operates with all signs and houses.
In your case, joe, most of your planets are clustered together in the interpersonal sector. So you seek quite a bit of balance with only one planet on the other side...Saturn...yourself in the 1st. You are seeking time away from the others, and your Taurus 12th house, retreat and solitude, is a good place to find solace.

The 12th house can be paranoia, however, and Taurus there might explain the pathology around the gas...:-) There probably is a deep fear of not being materially secure. Add to that the SN in Cancer, master of insecurity. The gas/bill fear could be a hook for other fears.

The Capricorn figures in too. Control. And the Saturn in the 1st. Running out of gas is symbolic. Fuel. Energy. Saturn block in the 1st house. Money. Expenditure of self. So control issues are part of this. I would think as you gain control over your life in the years coming right up, these other fears will diminish. Capricorn has a complicated relationship with money.

It's funny. I have the NN in Taurus, and I can let the gauge get all the way on empty. If I don't have enough money, I'll just starve merrily. Or pawn something..:-)

We all have the Taurus/Scorpio axis in our charts but it doesn't ruin our lives like the SN.

Your Taurus 12th is significant...old memories of want. Maybe starvation fears with so much Saturn. I'll go into an unusual and interesting way of reading the 12th after the nodes...and saturn:-)

18/2/07 2:19 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I wonder if my Venus can take this wisdom and put it to better use?

Great question. Venus also squares your Pluto, so this is a repeat.
Venus in the chart is powerful in determining who we connect with. Venus, natural ruler of Taurus in Scorpio, and in the 8th house, is the reason you attract them.

The first thing in coming to a conclusion is to ask yourself why? What are you seeking, aside from what they desire. In fact, this is a large part of this axis. Your completely personal needs and desires, and theirs.

With so many planets in the 7th it's hard to know what they want. Everything. But what complicates matters is all the Libra, also Venus. So in you there is a conflict between mental sharing and idealized love, and down deep visceral merging..ie...possession.

The thing to keep in mind, though, is the NN in the 1st lording over all of it, and leading you out of relationship ultimately in some way. So maybe the Taurus/Scorpio is a way to get your fill and eventually forgo some of this kind of merging with others. Turn it into merging with your creativity, since the Venus trines Uranus in the 5th.

There is a logical reason why they go. Maybe you don't have to do much of anything different. Just let them go. Venus in Scorpio can find this difficult but it all comes back to the detached Aquarius rising, NN in the 1st.

Some charts have a Venus like this in order to find merging, some in order to leave some of it. The emotional content is what you chart is after, without the bondage. All leading to your relationship with yourself. NN in the 1st.

18/2/07 2:41 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe, I just noticed something amazing!!! Your nodes are on the cusp of the 2nd/8th. Another house system could be different. I'm going to run more charts.

You could have a SN in the 2nd!!!!!!!

18/2/07 2:43 PM  
Blogger jm said...

What happens when the ruler of the house of the NN criss-crosses the south node, a push perhaps to the north? Looking, in each case, there was a "destruction" of some "possession" they valued.

That makes total sense. Where they go from there probably depends on personal evolution and how much they really want a fulfilling life. Destruction of possessions with the Taurus South is a big one. The only way, sometimes, they will let go. When they have no choice. Whether or not thay find replacements just as quagmiric, remains to be seen each time.

The amazing thing is that we get these pushes all the time. Some go, some stay. The destruction is a perfect opportunity, and you'll see some grow, and others practically not respond. Once you have consciousness, it becomes infinitely easier to help this push. As far as helping the others push ahead, probably not a lot of luck there.

That Mars retro, now that you mention it, was across my North, ruler of the house. I think you can see the results right before your eyes.

I had Jupiter across my south last year and it was harrowing as all transits to the South are, but more manageable than I can remember with previous transits. I think awareness is the key.
Very interesting. Glad you reminded me.

An interesting aside on this.... The upcoming Mars retro is in Cancer, in the house of the USA North Node. I'm going to watch it closely.

18/2/07 2:57 PM  
Blogger jm said...

The true Scorpionic type rejoices in total destruction. They fuel the flames and find ecstasy in irreversible release that gives them the freedom to emerge from bondage permanently. It's the passage they seek, as they get ready to go on to Sagittarius in the wheel and away from the interpersonal and material. The end of the Taurus start.

18/2/07 3:02 PM  
Blogger jm said...

JOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG!!!!!OMG!!!!!!!

You have a SN in the 2nd!

No wonder I use Koch. Thank you so so so so much for this. You just verified years of wondering!

Thank you my buddy.

18/2/07 3:21 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

Two new posts and lots of comments and I only NOW see them!!! Blogger REALLY REALLY does NOTTTTT like me!!!! ggrrrr!!!!

I don't understand... :-(

18/2/07 3:34 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

*laughs* jm, I have no idea what I did but I'm glad it makes you happy. :o) If you discovered that my SN is in the 2nd, where did you perceive it to be, before now?

18/2/07 4:11 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

Ha! Ha well since my relationships can best be described as unusual i would be willing to bet the Aquarian asc and uranus trine venus have a whole lot to say!

I have always cherished my solitude. Always. The deep tantra comes with the art - lost in time - otherworlds- mabye the freedom to be one walking with my bobcat and other wild friends without fear.

Too much death at an early age and loss (8 miscarriages) not to learn something of non-attachment i guess.

18/2/07 5:51 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Placidus had it in the 9th, joe, and it didn't seem right to me. This is wonderful.

18/2/07 7:00 PM  
Blogger jm said...

My god, tseka. Eight is a big number. Shoot.

I thought about your question and this is it, which we can cover when we do our nodes. In your case, the object is to stop serving others and use your relationships to serve your own puposes. That's the gift of the NN in the 1st. And why you have that packed 7th house. Then watch them work out way beyond expectation. Not thinking of the other's needs first is almost impossible with the SN 7th. Solitude sometimes is the only way out.

18/2/07 7:04 PM  
Blogger jm said...

South in the third that is, joe.

18/2/07 7:05 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I have a similar situation, tseka, and it drives me to....?
NN in the 1st, Aries rising, blank check to be selfish, and I get Mars going right smack back into Libra...0 degrees. Starting all over. So I have to learn to dominate my relationships and get my needs met. Me first. Tough one. And also to learn to ignore what others think about me.

You, too, with all that Libra. complicated, of course , by the ever humble servant, Moon in Virgo. That's why you love the animals. They fulfill that delicate Virgo desire, and you don't even have to feed them, although you do...:-) But they would keep you company anyway.

18/2/07 7:19 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That's the real key. To have the human company without having to do anything for it. Serve yourself first, and the rest will follow. You can still do for them, but within reason.

18/2/07 7:28 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

JM i could just kiss you - well consider it done. You have summed up very well where i am at the moment:

Reveling in my solitude, long conversations, lovely full friendships, but adviso: "posted" "Keep off my land" What is truly helpful- the Sagittarian bluntness. Oh so handy now.

Tho using others to serve me (what a concept) is yet to come maybe? Relating to all others, personal and professional has undergone huge changes. i have, in the main walked away from serving others. Thank Pluto mostly for raising a lot of dust in the past few years. And that big Uranus transit over NN. The kicker. Whizzing thunderbolts and electric shocks for the Pisces in me, he has settled into the first house now for a long visit. Oppossing the moon coming up directly. i can't think it bad to have the chart ruler in your first for a long haul.

18/2/07 7:29 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

Filled with things they don't need, they are weighed down with the excess, but find it difficult to eliminate. This doesn't mean objects, necessarily

I used to save EVERYTHING. (Cancer Moon hoards too.) EVERYTHING.

People can't believe it when I tell them all that I had saved and carried with me from move to move (and I've moved A LOT), all my life.

Anyway, over the past decade, I purged. And purged. And purged. It was a process. Not yet complete, but almost.

When I'm done, I will be left with only the things I use daily, and a very few 'special things'. Very few.

I also cleaned up in the people department. The people left in my life now are people who feed me, and who I feed.

"Does this person or thing feed you or bleed you?"

Similar with beliefs, memories, etc.

18/2/07 7:45 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Oh tseka, you sweetheart. I'll take the kiss.

Whizzing thunderbolts and electric shocks for the Pisces in me, he has settled into the first house now for a long visit

No wonder we are so sympatico. Let him stay forever. I've got Pluto coming right into the square of my Mars ruler, and I'm in a similar boat.

The opposition to the Moon is your chance to really have it your way. You have to, in order to work unimpeded. I think we should continue to encourage one another to reach for that NN.

What's so perfect is the Pluto on your Sun. This is all about your ego and significance. It just seems to me that the whole orchestration is trying to nudge you toward your artistic statement in full. Most artists I know go through the mills, get grinded completely, and do their best work later in life. It takes so much experience, and so much learning to know how to live for one's self to the maximum. I think all artists are equipped to do this, and often have to get other things out of the way first.

That NN is a beautiful gift. To do just what one wants in her life. It's a karmic nod that we've been good and done well, and now we get to do anything we want. The only obstacle is our own fear. People instintively get out of our way when we really get going, the crusaders that we are. The missions we know we're on.

18/2/07 7:46 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Great description jane.

I used to save EVERYTHING

I have the opposite nodes, and I still save EVERYTHING. No problem. And now I even have room for it all, so I can collect more. Need a piece of string?

18/2/07 7:49 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

a compulsion to support themselves, often finding it next to impossible to relinquish their self-sufficiency and melt into the supportive embrace of others

Financially/materially, yep, that's true.

Again, people don't understand. They either think I'm stupid, or noble. I will explain later, with a story and details.

18/2/07 7:51 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

They know what the mortgage holder is really about.

Yep. For me, there are past life issues there. And family-of-origin issues.

18/2/07 7:57 PM  
Blogger jm said...

What about the past life?

It can be a real past life or one within the current one, the way these nodes work.

18/2/07 8:00 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

They are reluctant to merge with new experience fully, and frequently find themselves back where they started. They know pain is part of the process of transforming, but sometimes even after experiencing pain, they hold back from the full step out

I've been HUNGERING/STARVED for 'new experience' (on the bring-the-bacon-home front) for over a decade now. Definitely no 'reluctance'.

Tried various things. Changes. New things. That didn't work out. Both 'inner' and 'outer'.

Twice found myself back where I started. Sinking deeper and deeper all the while. Dying more and more.

I keep jumping from the proverbial frying pan into the proverbial fire, over and over and over, despite my most lucid attempts otherwise.

I'm on the edge again. Time for yet another choice/decision/action/JUMP. But it's just not happening.

Good thing I know all about prostitution. That's coming up next.

18/2/07 8:07 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

The past lives. There are many.

I'll mention two for now:

One I was a male slave in the American Deep South (ties in with my current post back at my place). DQ is part of that story.

The other I was the father of a family in the Dirty Thirties - Depression, on a farm, on the Canadian Prairies. (Your photo talked to me.)

18/2/07 8:10 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

The current-life family-of-origin issues play even more strongly in this thing about my not ever being dependent on anybody again for my survival/subsistance.

Or they did up to recently.

I have done much inner work/therapy on this, post-divorce.

Still, not sure how much I will be able to ever trust.

Trust is another biggy.

18/2/07 8:13 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

I think you mentioned trust for me somewhere in a previous post.

Yes, truth, trust, honesty, lies (by omission, commission and distortion), deception, betrayal are all recurrent issues.

Funny, because my friend Dancing Queen just moments ago said (as opposed to a certain other person in her life):

"You (Jane) are honest and trustworthy..."

Everybody tells me that.

Mirror, projection, and all that wonderful stuff.. inner work later... yes, I see how I have deceived/betrayed myself over the years.

And attracted 'bad guys' to carry my shadow for me.

~sigh~

18/2/07 8:22 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is the Taurus/Scorpio IC/MC axis I mentioned earlier and how your family is part of this Venus/Pluto money emotional manipulation dilemma. Up to you to break the pattern. Set limits. On yourself most of all.

18/2/07 8:24 PM  
Blogger jm said...

yes, I see how I have deceived/betrayed myself over the years.

Every single human does it. I think we have to until we're ready to see. We do it over and over, but I think somewhere we learn.

18/2/07 8:27 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

Btw, hello tseka! Sorry to be talking over your head like this!

18/2/07 8:27 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I got into the blogosphere through the political tragedy. What I found was shocking. The deception and betrayal was NOT the government. It was all the people who really believed that the politicians were the cause of their pain. And on and on they go refusing to see their own behavior and how they undermine their own happiness. It's universal. Self-deception.

But somewhere along the line. moments of revelation come.

18/2/07 8:31 PM  
Blogger jm said...

We are all in search of ourselves, and people and experiences are the hooks for our own relationship with ourselves. Trust, love and all of that don't come easily. The hurts, betrayals and all are our own self loathing. Our view of the world around us is a reflection of our self view. So we can't go to others for the cure. Only insofar as they have the wisdom to guide us to ourselves.

The deceptions. All around. At least we all have something in common.

18/2/07 8:36 PM  
Blogger jm said...

So this is largely what the NN in Scorpio is about. Scorpio at its best. The stripping away of pretense and the exposure of emotional/psychological honesty. The last of the personal before going on to god, or some such thing. An interesting node.

18/2/07 8:49 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

Thanks for all, jm. This was another excellent set, btw. I really appreciate all that you put out for us here, collectively, and the personal to me too.

I'm cheering for you and ~your~ NN/MC.

18/2/07 8:52 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I'm smiling, nodding, and receiving.

18/2/07 8:58 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

We are all in search of ourselves, and people and experiences are the hooks for our own relationship with ourselves. Trust, love and all of that don't come easily. The hurts, betrayals and all are our own self loathing. Our view of the world around us is a reflection of our self view. So we can't go to others for the cure. Only insofar as they have the wisdom to guide us to ourselves.

The deceptions. All around. At least we all have something in common.


Now that sounds more like SN in Scorpio to me . . . I have found trust issues where ever Pluto/Scorpio is prominent. It always comes back to learning to trust ourselves first. Sure, we all make bad judgement calls, it's how we respond to them that can help us or set us back. Scorpio does usually have a way of getting to the truth behind the smokescreen too.

Mature Scorpios have a surprisingly high tolerance for human frailties if the person is at heart kind & considerate of others. Otherwise, it seems a far better course of action to disengage. Personally, that's a very painfully learned lesson taught by the master himself, Pluto. Telling anyone how to live their lives in any way, shape or form sets off major alarm bells in this lady . . . as in, Do Not Go There!!!

19/2/07 10:46 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Telling anyone how to live their lives in any way, shape or form sets off major alarm bells in this lady . . . as in, Do Not Go There!!!

You're so wise neith. And I know you've learned the hard way..:-)

I agree about Scorpio and trust. And betrayals are always a big one. The Scorpio adds this dimension for reasons. Others just part ways, maybe with bad feelings, but the Big Betrayal is Plutonian. Probably to guide them the the self-trust you mentioned. Scorps, I think, sometimes struggle with lovability.

19/2/07 1:49 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

You got that right.

19/2/07 2:05 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Hey joe! right from the Scorpion's mouth!

The reason I was so happy yesterday was because of the decsion on which house system to use. I decided many years ago to use Koch, but one wonders. Your chart with your evidence yesterday just answered the question for good. Great relief.

19/2/07 2:12 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I've thought about this with Scorpio. I think people are afraid of them becuase of the way they penetrate and can sense the emotional truth underneath people's coverup. There seems to be almost a force field that intimidates. I know with my Scorp sister I wouldn't even consider telling her nothing but the truth. In fact, she was the one who finally cut through to the agony I felt after my partner died. It was a purge and a releief.

Sorps can't be taken lightly. Now Gemini...that's another ball of rubber.

19/2/07 2:17 PM  
Blogger Neith said...

Scorps can't be taken lightly. Now Gemini...that's another ball of rubber.

Ha, Ha, Ha!!!

Speaking of Geminis, I will be doing a post on the latest addition to the family - her mom is my Gemini stepdaughter. Born 2/19/07, 11:07AM Yakima, WA (5 wks early)

19/2/07 2:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

You know how I feel about Gems.

19/2/07 2:46 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Congrats, Neith! :o)

jm, this is another reason why I'm so blessed to have found this place. The description you just gave of Scorpio, combined with my heavy Saturnian influence, explains very much why I usually end up the odd man out in social gatherings. People are unnerved by whatever vibes I seem to give out. It's always been this way. Now at least I understand why even if it doesn't always work in my favor.

19/2/07 2:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What if one has NN in Scorpio in the 2nd house, and SN Taurus in the 8th?

19/2/07 5:08 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe, once you understand it, you can use it, rather than 'it' using you.
Scorpio can almost be like a phantom presence, or a conscious reminder of what's being evaded. This is necessary, which is why we have them around.

Anon, I
I'll be back in awhile to go into this complicated one. I would like to hear your experience.

19/2/07 5:32 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe, I've noticed myself how you can deliver a stinging truth unexpectedly. I think this can be good.

I was talking above about taking the consequences of our actions in stride. We have to in order to fully and honestly be ourselves.
I often think you see more than you say, and I always want to hear about it.

19/2/07 5:36 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

Jm... you mentioned at one point something about there being similarities between Joe's chart and mine. Is that coming up? (Not pushing, just asking.)

19/2/07 5:42 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

I often think you see more than you say, and I always want to hear about it.

This is a huge part of what my NN in 8H needs to start doing again. Part of what got 'broken' and needs to be 'repaired' (mentioned previously).

My Mars-Merc tied to my Sun and NN = my purpose in life --> 'drive to communicate'.

Most people ~don't~ want to hear. No matter how 'gently' or 'appropriately' (that is soooo subjective!!) you present what you see.

19/2/07 5:46 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe has 4 planets in Libra square Capricorn. Add the Scorpio and you have a similar feel.
His Jupiter in Cap is on your Saturn...the important element you are about to deal with bigtime. He also has NN and Moon in Cap. He's good for our achievement.
He has the exact same dilemma about equal partnership vs the boss role. How to get it just right.

here's the breakdown so you can see the comparison...

Pluto: 3 Li
Venus: 14 Li
Uranus: 20 Li
Mars: 27 Li
Jupiter: 6 Cap
NN: 18 Cap
Moon 24 Cap

Nov. 11, 1972, 5:25 PM, Rochester, Minnesota.

Also 2nd/8th house nodes.

19/2/07 5:52 PM  
Blogger jm said...

you have to know just how much is appropriate to say. How much they can handle. I say about 1/4 of 1% of what I see.

19/2/07 5:53 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I've always been detached and able to observe, so I've seen a lot through the years and put it all together. I use to try to express it, but found what you did. they don't want it. So I've resigned myself to saying what I can and leaving the rest to circumstance. I usually wait for people to ask now.

It's hard holding the knowledge in, but I'm getting used to it. And when it gets through, it's effective.

Be back shortly.

19/2/07 6:01 PM  
Blogger Jane said...

Thank you, Jm.

Gonna digest all that.

19/2/07 6:02 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Wow, when you break it down like that, it really reinforces the Libra and Capricorn square.

19/2/07 6:20 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Joe you are so good at this. I love the way you really get it and are eager to use it. This is rare.

The Libra/Cap square is everything and soon it will be visited by Pluto. Big big opportunity in your life, especially since Saturn is in your 1st. Time to come into your own.

Libra is equality, Capricorn is not. It's superiority. The lesson is to do this diplomatically and subtley so they don't even know they are being bossed. To make them feel partnered in the venture, even though you make the decisions and have control.

Sometimes fairness is compromised for the good of the project. I see how you try to be fair around here, and you do well, but when it gets serious, sometimes this has to be released, at least momentarily.

19/2/07 7:02 PM  
Blogger jm said...

There is great money making potential with merged energies in your chart. Fundraising, corporate investing, and all kinds of things for the good of society with your Aquarius MC. Almost all your planets are in the interpersonal sector so you have infinite skill in managing people. The SN in Cancer is the thing to let go of, and not get involved excessively in their personal complaints, and try to solve these problems.

This is a serious chart with great potential. It's coming in now, and with this added knowledge you should be in good shape.

The isolation you sometimes feel actually serves you well, as you need occasional breaks from the tremendous social calling you have.

19/2/07 7:07 PM  
Blogger jm said...

My desire is to have people around me come into their dynamic selves and realize their potential. I get a lot of energy from people being an extravert, so this is my gain.

19/2/07 7:09 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Now about those nodes.

The SN in the 8th is usually someone who has given power away and is scheduled to get it back this time. I'll go into this in depth when we get there. In Taurus, it could be around financial control.

With Scorpio North in the 2nd it can mean that the lessons are repeated only with you having control this time. Most SN 8th housers don't want any more pain and crisis, but with NN in Scorpio there could be heavy experiences, but again, much more manageable this. The North in the 2nd could indicate a lot of money, still involving other people, but not used as manipulation.

It also can indicate a giving up of that kind of material pursuit altogether, and concentrating on other forms of satisfaction, It can swing both ways.

The North in the 2nd always wants contentment and centering of the entire life within the self, so what that entails is individualistic.
A pulling back to the self.
The Scorpio adds intensity.

19/2/07 9:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jm,

Thanks for the analysis on NN Sco 2nd house. My life has been full of upheavals. I am a singer/songwriter; I have also had a very hard time letting go of employment as a graphic artist to fully pursue the musician's life. On my own I have a big fear of, and often the illusion of, poverty, since I grew up feeling wealthy. I have had some success as a songwriter, but it has not yet translated into much money, even though I've received critical acclaim. I've always felt I am supposed to have a supportive partner in this life, but that hasn't yet happened.

I've often thought that there is a bigger calling for me than either of the above professions; perhaps ancient languages, or sound and healing research. Last year I acquired a 3rd job that came to me with absolutely no effort on my part--The first time that's ever happened. I am a longtime practitioner of yoga; I was asked to teach it. My classes have gotten very large. This, plus some strange, traumatic spiritual experiences over the last 3-1/2 years, have made me rethink my life's work and sent me on a spiritual quest.

I love music and singing, and the practice of yoga. I love learning and often feel a desire to go to graduate school. I also desire comfort and beauty, love and physical passion, and have a fear of not having enough of those things when I am older. Ever since I was a child I always said I wanted to be really good at one thing; so my present life is a paradox to me. I am, oddly enough, November 11, 1957, 2:25 am, Oak Park, IL.

Any insights appreciated.

20/2/07 8:44 AM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Another Scorpio! :o) And the same birth day as mine.

20/2/07 2:43 PM  
Blogger jm said...

That's right! And another singer/songwriter. Another kindred soul.

but it has not yet translated into much money, even though I've received critical acclaim. I've always felt I am supposed to have a supportive partner in this life, but that hasn't yet happened.

Exactly my situation. I had the partner and it completed my evolution to the artist I am today. But I have the SN in the 7th and had to let go. You need this. I think if you find the support you will bloom as a musician mixed with the yoga. Yoga does amazing things to people. And I remember the music specifically in the classes I take.

Scorpio needs this deeper spiritual filfillment. No way around it. And the merging to get the fuel required.

I will run your chart and look at the last specifics you mentioned. About school, etc. That's usually easy to figure out.

The main thing is walking away from the money trauma.

What is your music like?

20/2/07 3:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jm,

I appreciate the insights. I've only had my chart looked at once previously, and the astrologer said, "Oh, you don't have to be this!" I assume it's a challenging chart, but I think there must be good things there too. I know there are lots of Chiron aspects, and Moon, and Pluto. Sun-Mars-Neptune-NN in the 2nd house, so that may explain the money issues.

Thanks for asking about the music. My own music is folk/rock music; I have also written for country artists.
I see from your bio that you are a jazz singer--That is wonderful!

Yes, yoga is the best--My yoga practice has really helped me.

20/2/07 7:17 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I'm very anxious to see your chart, which I will do momentarily.
It's probably a good thing you haven't had your chart read. They are confused usually.
One astrologer years looked at my chart and said I had something a lot of musicians do. I'm going to see if there is a similarity in ours.

20/2/07 10:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jm,

Thanks for taking a look at my chart. I'll be curious to see what you say. Everything I've read describes NN 2nd house Scorpio as traumatic, but I think it is also about learning mastery.
And I wanted to tell you, your site and your writing are just poetic. (I also laughed out loud about the SN Taurus guy with the Hefty Baggage.) What brought you into astrology? You would do well writing an astrology book.

21/2/07 2:16 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Anon. Thank you so much. No one else seem to get that guy with the bag, but you would know! I loved posting him.

You are so emotional, no wonder you appreciate the poetic. I found the configuration for music, and you have it too.

I think I always was into astrology. I remember knowing everyone's sign since I was a teen-ager. I finally decided at age 30 to teach myself completely. I read books day and night, found a mentor, and the local astrology group here in Denver was top notch.
It does look like a book is in the cards.

People in my life have always said I a should be a writer. Music seemed more exciting and fulfilling, but now I'm not so sure. We'll see. There's a lot I could share with you about creating a music career.

Your chart is very interesting. Almost everything is in the self part of the wheel, almost nothing in relationships. And here you are...solo! Not that you don't have relationships, but they are secondary to your life aims. You don't need to put a lot of energy into them. The Libra you have needs someone, but the other should be doing the maintenance, while you develop yourself.

There is so much here. Lots and lots of emotional flow. Depth and knowledge of things you might not even want to delve into youself. Deep deep emotional understanding of the human condition, and a calling with the Moon in your career house, to nurture the collective. Music is Cancer and the Moon, so it's a perfect choice. They aren't getting the soothing and healing of hurts music is for, from the current bunch.

The moon also is involved with writers of fiction and you have Saturn in the 3rd and writing talent. The Saturn in Sagittarius there is a search for faith and a tendency to be pessimistic, wanting signs of something protective out there in the universe, but not one for hypocrisy and phony optimism.

The node situation is fascinating. You have many planets around the North and this is a karmic nod toward a good life. All the Scorpio wants the trauma experienced and released so this pleasure can be obtained and kept for good. Very much an ability to experience pleasure. This is what the communication of music is supposed to be.

There's a lot more. I will add as we go. You have great potential for self actualization, giving you the freedom to profoundly influence the world around you, which would be a good idea.

21/2/07 3:27 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Everything I've read describes NN 2nd house Scorpio as traumatic, but I think it is also about learning mastery.

This is Scorpio exactly. Contol over desire and the use of that energy for purposes other than consumption and sexual exchange with others. I think this is one of the most important aspects of Scorpio and not often achieved. It's the yogic master.

21/2/07 3:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jm,

You are right, I think you will have a book. Your personality comes through so clearly in your writing, and there is actually a soothing quality to your words, and a noticeable, unique rhythm.

I know what you are saying is true. The past 4 years have forced big spiritual change from me, though, and during this time, every seeming-new relationship has just suddenly evaporated, while my yoga/spiritual opportunities have expanded. I dearly want to have more study in my life, so I can deepen my spiritual/musical practice. Does Saturn in Sag in the 3rd indicate a desire for learning? I always wondered, with my Mercury in Sco at the anaretic degree in the 3rd, if there is something I am supposed to tell or write. Can you tell me what is the strongest planet in my chart?
When you mention self-actualization, are you talking about enlightenment?
Does having a self-oriented chart indicate a solitary life, or can there be a supportive Other?

Have you written and sung since you were a child?

22/2/07 10:23 AM  
Blogger jm said...

OMG what a great great post. I am deeply pleased and want to respond to everything. This verifies my belief that you know almost too much.

Will be back shorty. Such wonderful questions.

22/2/07 2:25 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I am moved so much by your comment on my soothing rhythmical style. The rhythm is my love and I was born with it. This is what my music is like, and it is almost always overlooked. I've been heartbroken by the public's appetite for discomfort that makes them follow the stilted, stiff, and punishing sounds around. Same with writing. I can't read the others becuase of the lack of rhythm and the pain it causes me to try and follow them. They make it too hard.
Yet many people are seeking the yogic easing of tension.

My music is very much about this, and I suppose the only thing I can do, is just keep doing it and hope that more people like you will appear.

Thank you so much for this appraisal. It gives me great hope.

Saturn in the 3rd is one of the most powerful indicators of learning. You'll do this all your life. Saturn is what we are working on and want the most but proves the hardest place to achieve the results we want. So your lyrics would be paramount. I can see by your words here how talented you are.

The Saturn rules your 4th house of privacy and deep feeling, and the cancer MC shows that you are destined to communicate this ultra deep and vast hidden world. Again, your words here to me, cut to the core.

always wondered, with my Mercury in Sco at the anaretic degree in the 3rd, if there is something I am supposed to tell or write

Absocompletelylutely.
I am heavy into the anaretic degree and I think it tells a big story. I always feel it. It's a last chance, reveal it all point, where the knowledge has been gained and should be disseminated so you can move on to the next phase. It's like being pregnant for 50 years.

Mercury in Scorpio has secrets. Now is the time to tell them.

The absolutely amazing thing is your 28 Virgo, also ruled by Mercury, so I'm going to go with the Merc as your strongest planet.

The Jupiter is also important in the first. The guru. The counselor. The spiritual advisor. In Libra, expressed through grace, beauty, and balance. It rules the Sagittarius Saturn as well.

Saturn in Sag is a search for god, simply. There is a belief in a punishing entity and a life of discovering the benevolence in the universe. So this Saturn is looking to unlock enthusiasm, faith, and the Jupiterian robust love of life and all experience. The water is fearful, but the Jupiter wants you to expand into the upper dimensions. The Mercury/3rd house is the way. The Word. So I would say your destiny is getting the word out, cutting through the falseness around. The honesty in you is superb.

That's such a great question about enlightenment and self actualization. I think they might be separate but in your case, they are combined. The self part is your separation from the crowd, but the enlightenment would bring you back in to shine above them and teach. The Jupiter in the 1st would make that natural, when you feel connected enough with yourself.

Virgo is purity, and the Virgo rising will project that image, despite the prurient aspects of Scorpio. There is an interesting path to this acceptance of the lower primitive self and trasformation into religious purity in this chart. Your knowledge of how bad the human can be is extensive. This is what the NN in the 2nd is all about. Coming to terms with this traumatic, often ugly, part of life and relaxing, breathing, enjoying, and using the power for higher purposes. Wrapping it in beauty and presenting it to the public.

Most of your 1st house is Libra, and Venus is in the 4th. Neptune rules your marriage house, so you need a dreamer/poet/dancer for a mate.

I don't think a solitary life is indicated here. What I think is in the cards is a partner who is immersed in your talent and helping you develop it. With peronal traumas at a minimum, and ideally someone who would support you financially.

This is a start.

I can remember singing forever. The writing started in my 20's.

22/2/07 3:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I hope that your book will include spoken word (maybe an audio book, eventually), and that the actual book includes images, since you always find compelling images for your site. They are beautiful--I just found the frog and the mirror...

I had to digest all of this. Also, I have been reading some of your archived posts on Saturn ( I am finishing Sade Sati this year).

About NN 2nd house Scorpio--I know with most of my 7th house in Aries, I am drawn to forceful people--but I think I have outgrown the domineering types. I believe as I find my own power and the belief that I deserve it, I'll find a partner who has true power, rather than one who is just masking insecurity; since theoretically, we attract what we are.

With Moon oppose Venus, I have always felt that aspect as a conflict between wanting comfort ( someone to come home to, a real partner and a real home), and wanting recognition for what I have to say (the artist's path). Is there another way to interpret/feel that aspect, that doesn't feel like a no-win situation?

26/2/07 10:46 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I'll find a partner who has true power, rather than one who is just masking insecurity; since theoretically, we attract what we are.

Beautifully said. I think our whole lives are a reflection of us, and for me, the best way to read who I am is by what is happening around me. I've run across few who are honest with themselves.

It's very hard to find someone who isn't masking insecurity, but if anyone can find this, you can.

I'll come back to the Moon/Venus in a little while. It's important, and there are several interpretations.

26/2/07 1:29 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Oppositions aren't that bad. You can do both. Most of your 1st house is Libra and Venus rules. So home is where you want to be quite a bit, with a partner. You probably can do much of your work at home. But the Moon elevated says that there is great emotional reward for you out in the world with your talent.

There's comfort both places which is lucky in a way. There are pulls to the opposite when on one side, but it's manageable.

Lots of people with 10th house planets don't get out, but to be completely fulfilled you should in some way. With all your introspection, the balance would be good. Then you can come back to the comforts of home.

A good partner is hard to find, but it depends on our inner projection, So the way to get there is to be honest with yourself, deal with the Scorpio in the best way possible, not demanding too much from them, work on your character and art, and it should come. It really is up to us to find what we want, and it's there when we're ready.

My issue is the stage, and I've struggled all my life to get there. I might. I've been working for a long time on it. Nothing is in the way but my fear. But the older I get, the less things matter that once did. I seem to be loosening up a little. Good time to get out there.

I think some of what we desire gets to us, and some doesn't. We do our best.

2/3/07 1:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jm,
Thanks again for the beautiful writing. This year has been a higher visibility year for me, AND I am moving back home to help my mom take care of the family place (she is physically handicapped). I have mixed feelings about it, but it will help her, give me time to write/practice my music, and to think about going back to school. On the downside, I worry about losing independence, and dredging up parent/child tensions...my mother wanted the life I have, and I have always felt guilty about pursuing my dreams--I was told growing up that love meant sacrificing your dreams to your husband's, believe it or not. I've developed a certain amount of detachment over the last year, and I am stronger, so I hope this is the right decision. I do want a partner. But the last 3 years especially, prospective partners have come suddenly into my life, and then just as suddenly evaporated. It's almost gotten comical.
I have to believe there is someone out there.

When you mention the stage, are you referring to musical theatre? Because it sounds like you have been onstage, as a blues singer. I think as we get older, we become more ourselves, and our souls are closer to the surface. That makes us less self-conscious (and more Self-conscious, I suppose), and it gets easier to step out on whatever stage we yearn for.

6/3/07 10:35 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I think as we get older, we become more ourselves, and our souls are closer to the surface. That makes us less self-conscious (and more Self-conscious, I suppose), and it gets easier to step out on whatever stage we yearn for.

This is one of the most beautiful comments I've read.
Yes. I'm a blues performer, but it's my Saturn in Leo life lesson coming hard. I agree with what you say completely, and that's why I still think I can forge ahead on stage which is my deepest desire. This is wonderful. So well stated. I want at some point to be completely comfortable in the spotlight, to lose all self-consciousness, and that will come with age. I especially feel that right now after reading this.

If you read this one, I'll be back to comment on the mother situation after I look at your chart again. It's your Venus/Moon opposition.

I don't think you can make mistakes with your intuitive nature so well-developed.

9/3/07 5:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah..plenty of mistakes!...painful ones. Mostly centered around choosing a partner and then finding the person to be unsupportive, insecure, controlling, and sabotaging (must have been a reflection of me, though--lack of belief in myself.)

13/3/07 3:18 PM  

<< Home