Friday, March 13, 2009

Waterproof in the South

The world drips
Gurgling forth in a babbling babble
"You're a babbling baptist," said Mark to Max one night in the North where he sat in his sea of spirits and lined paper
Truth in indigo
Fade resistant
A crackling carpet of genius
The world drips

75 Comments:

Blogger chrispito said...

i can hear it dripping.

i love this.

i love, love love this.

13/3/09 7:06 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Chris, my real friend in a fake world. Thank you treasured one. Taurus and the genuine. The courage of pleasure.

We're all right.

To be an artist. A gift one can't refuse.

13/3/09 7:42 PM  
Blogger Tseka said...

I love this too, JM.
Poignant.

I can hear the humor and the tension in the stretch of the phone line, as it takes the place of some other conductive line of connection.

The images overflow...

14/3/09 8:38 AM  
Anonymous dbe aries said...

I love this too, as well as all the posts
I can feel the pleasure in the dripping.

14/3/09 9:41 AM  
Anonymous dble aries said...

The pleasure of the picture is wonderful, the clean feeling of the dripping.. Looking for clean fresh air.

14/3/09 9:48 AM  
Blogger chrispito said...

thawing.
i've wondered if pluto in capricorn would bring a feeling of eternal winter to me.
i think this is why i like this so much. a friendly reminder that contrary to what my cappy moon thinks, spring always arrives, somehow. somewhere.

14/3/09 1:43 PM  
Blogger dxp said...

I love this time of year. It smells like worms. Not that I like worms all that much tho. Or go out of my way to smell them. Maybe its that worms seem to start to make the springing back to life begin and THAT smell is wonderful, still underground, soon to be fully alive.

14/3/09 1:48 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It's a pleasure to share pleasure. Speaking of which, I do not like worms, although I'm eternally grateful that they're there.

i've wondered if pluto in capricorn would bring a feeling of eternal winter to me.

I was wondering the same about the country, but it's never like that. I think Cap Moons appreciate the warmth more than most when it comes. There's an added effect with the combination of sorrow and joy, although most Cap moons I know are kind of down lifelong. And most don't mind. They see through the pretense and deal well with adversity. I've been on the other end with my Sadge Moon and have needed the contraction and to see the world bare. I kind of missed last spring. I'll catch this one.

14/3/09 2:46 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Looking for clean fresh air.

Good point.

14/3/09 3:13 PM  
Blogger chrispito said...

"sea of spirits and lined paper/truth in indigo"

pluto in capricorn/mercury in pisces...perhaps i'm tempted by a fade resistant truth. pisces bringing faith to world-weary capricorn. the oldest amongst us are always willing to be called upon for guidance.

pisces and aries...both pioneers i think.

14/3/09 7:00 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

They must be pioneers, since they bookend the whole zodiac. :o)

14/3/09 7:36 PM  
Blogger chiron said...

Well Dripity do Dah!

Here is a good chuckle and very well written, I dare say, I do.

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/hope-change-and-elves-by-patricia-melton-and-the-mineral-city-coffee-club/#more-12741

14/3/09 7:57 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Chris, I'm stunned that you got that image. My favorite. Especially the "fade resistant."

pisces bringing faith to world-weary capricorn.

Exactly how it goes. You need it at the end after Capricorn. actually I think Aquarius is the most world weary and forlorn.

the oldest amongst us are always willing to be called upon for guidance.

Have to think about this.

14/3/09 7:58 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Uh-oh. Back to reality!

14/3/09 7:59 PM  
Blogger jm said...

LOL! I didn't say it and I always marvel at how others get away with it so easily

come to think of it, still doesn’t explain why Michelle Obama wore a Wilma Flinstone-inspired coffee filter frock to the Inaugural ball, designed by the same man who makes clothes for RuPaul and other drag queens or transvestites, and is now the single most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen a grown person (who is not Earl) ever wear in public).

Wilma Flintstone! Actually I felt nervous and sorry for them so I kept my trap shut.

Patricia's just a nice gal. Well put. Glad somebody's doing the job.

14/3/09 8:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Really, though. This world drives me crazy. I felt so bad when I saw that dress. Wilma Flinstone had it right. The over-the shoulder part was wide at the bottom tapering to the shoulder. Michelle's was stuck on at an awkward slant and led the eye directly to the bad design. Horrible design. Anybody with any sense of proportion could see that. So why on such a magnificent night didn't designers help her out? How did they let that go by? Maybe she won't let them. A control thing. I was shocked. But in a way ... relieved because I knew the fantasy of Camelot returned was not to be. I made not a peep. That mixed with the bungled oath told the story. All good in the end. Normal people, normal stuff. Things blessedly going wrong.

14/3/09 8:31 PM  
Blogger chrispito said...

joe...exactly my thought. loop de loop.

I should make the disclaimer that as a cap moon, old is a relative term. I was quite a bit older at the age of, say, 11 than I was when I was 28. And much more willing to be called upon than I am now re. some things anyway, heh.

14/3/09 9:19 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I've never been old. Old soul and all that crap. Not me. I hope to die young and maybe do a Dorian Gray at the moment of death.

The elders should've done better. Maybe it was the tooth loss. Maybe the implants of the modern age will help the old folks guide us properly.

14/3/09 9:36 PM  
Anonymous duCan said...

I too can hear the drops. lovely imagery. Great comments.

Pisces bringing faith...

Have to agree with this.

But this double Aquarian is certainly not world weary or forlorn:o) LOL Not with chocolate mousse in the refrigerator.

14/3/09 9:53 PM  
Blogger chrispito said...

implants! funny...
B has 4 implants, courtesy of breaking his palate. You would not believe the amount of people who scoff at implants. I think they are brilliant.

I get you on the old soul thing. That annoys me too. It sounds trite. But I have heard that Cap grows in reverse and it resonates.

You are quite the host Jm. I cannot believe how much energy reverberates through the ether. thanks!:)

14/3/09 10:45 PM  
Blogger chrispito said...

teeth are apparently a fine indicator for overall health.

14/3/09 10:47 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Your welcome chris. The appreciation makes it worthwhile.

The people who have implants rave about them. Teeth in a glass really don't do well, so I'm all for them. Skin, especially, is a health indicator.

15/3/09 12:04 AM  
Blogger dxp said...

Chiron, Hillbuzz is a favorite of mine! - a sort of guilty pleasure sometimes - tho I visit the site every day. Sometimes the writers really bare their souls and reading their words is incredibly intimate. Other times (like this link which I'd already read with pleasure) their humor is revealing and a great romp - tho equally intimate. I've never thought enough about fashion (I'm a woman) and the way these guys approach it is very creative and revealing. Gads I'm glad I'm not in politics! I get enough heat as it is!

I would forgive Barack and Michelle for many faux-pas if there was not such a swagger in them. I did not like the swagger in Bush's "bring 'em on" stuff. And I don't like the Obamas swagger in how cool they are. I know it does not really have anything to do directly with policy but it does set the stage. Maybe there is no escape from the swagger - the electorate seems to require it.

Very interesting to think that Aquarius is the "most world weary and forlorn"! I've got sun, merc and NN conjunct in Aquarius and can rather relate to that.

JM, I bet you ARE an old soul. But that is not all that easy (sounds nicer that it is in practice). According to a shaman practitioner I know, that also includes having more 'baggage'. A heavier cross to bear? I like archetypal images. Capricorn and Aquarius as the end of the worldly energies, Pisces as the weariest of them and the letting go of them. Faith here is a belief in possibilities which at the end of worldly energies is really a new thought. One could think of them as densities. The older the soul the denser it is (more inclusive of a density of experience). Pisces is then a digestion and divestment of experience. And in the end it is a release of experience and makes room for the new.

15/3/09 12:15 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Dxp, what a great comment. This Cancer is world weary tonight but your comment perked me up considerably.

I must say, you have some fine masculine traits. I didn't know which gender you were, but I was leaning male. I'm usually perceived as male, myself. This is fascinating. The triple conjunction in Aquarius is great, and probably accounts for your unique expression. You are very singular with a refreshing confidence.

Aquarius is in between the surrender of Pisces and the attempt to make something out of society in Capricorn, so I think there's often an underlying depsair in knowing there's really not much we can do. It comes home in Pisces, but Aquarians are still slightly stuck in the system with one foot out the door, still trying to help despite disappointment. Some of my many Aquarian friends are like that. But others are detached living outside the system, not worrying about society much. There's still an underlying somberness to most I know, which I find relieving. A knowingness. Savvy, and the down effects that often come with it. The hoplessness is coming in full which can then be released in Pisces for a new round. I know that the moon every month in the final quadrant is much more depressing than Aries, Taurus, and Gemini. It's so marked.

I agree about the Obama's attitude, and I do think it has something to do with politics. He gets away with too much, but it's still the beginning. I read today, for example, that his game around Guantanamo is now centering around renaming them. And the people will swallow it because he's the rock star. One by one, he'll continue the same policies as Bush and one by one they'll meekly obey. Torture and many other horrendous policies are continuing and there's no use in denying it. They'll try as hard as they can though, and his slick attitude helps that fantasy develop.

Maybe there is no escape from the swagger - the electorate seems to require it.

I consider this one of our biggest problems. The SN in Leo now and in the admnistration's chart has revved it up. We don't need a rock star and that's why I think it's the end of the line. If problems mount in a real way, the people will be forced to accept it. They're not there yet. They still think things are going to go on as always with the swaggering and worship. I have my doubts. I've given up for now, but things will change when the time comes. The Obama's won't, so hopefully the smugness will eventually become tiresome. We'll see.

Your description of the end of the wheel is excellent. In Pisces the weariness dissolves in surrender, so that's why I think Aquarius maybe carries the heaviest burden. I love the way you put it and I trust your opinions.

15/3/09 12:42 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I don't know about old souls in actuality, since I can't prove reincarnation, although it makes a lot of sense. But some people do have an odd maturity about them from having seen so much and comprehending from a broad perspective. Also in family lines, some experiences teach a lot about life in a short time. What about you dxp? You seem to have that extra something an old spirit might be delivering.

One thing I noticed that's unique is how you seem to take my small daily human agonies for what they are and still identify something bigger in my character. Many can't do that. I, myself, battle with this lowly human nonsense, but I'd like to let it be. I'd like to let my imperfections alone, and possibly enjoy them, knowing there is the other part of me that remains eternally wise. The less than stellar part is the part that governs joining the crowd, so I'm afraid I might have to drag it along and suffer the consequences with Pluto coming to my MC. They often don't understand what I'm saying except when it's not nice!! They get engaged then. What a conundrum.

I've always been on the outside observing and as a result I learned more than most around me. Others have responded in that fashion as if I have some information most don't, but that can come within a lifetime, maybe as much as within 1000s. Some people never learn. It's so hard to say where the seat of the old sage is in the consciousness. I think it's in everyone, but some access it more for reasons I cannot determine. It's all so fascinating. I do know that some people's eyes hold special perception that attracts me. My life had led me to make sacrifices most don't, so I wonder about that. A lot of worldy attachments have been forsaken, but that's not to say they won't come again at some point.

I've always thought that everyone really sees and knows, but maybe I'm wrong. Have I overestimated? Am I less naked than I thought?

15/3/09 1:12 AM  
Anonymous duCan said...

"Your description of the end of the wheel is excellent. In Pisces the weariness dissolves in surrender, so that's why I think Aquarius maybe carries the heaviest burden."

Once again quintessential JM analysis. I have totally embraced my Pisces Venus, Mars & NN through surrender, embracing unconditional love and faith over disappointment with Aquarian detachment. It took years of hard work and I am still a work in
progress but not world weary and forlorn. I always felt blessed with a kind of 'knowing' not knowing where it came from.

15/3/09 1:13 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Venus, Mars, and NN in Pisces, in an incredible conjunction. Yes. Lots of knowing. Lots. No forlornness there with Mars and Venus.

15/3/09 1:22 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Some Aquarians with the Pisces personal planets find refuge in relationship, some don't. I see you have. The NN is the cupcake.

15/3/09 1:24 AM  
Anonymous duCan said...

"There's still an underlying somberness to most I know, which I find relieving. A knowingness. Savvy,"

This is very true JM.

dxp is an Aquarian who loves Hillbuzz. I am also an Aquarian but I do not get any pleasure from Hillbuzz.

I never, never follow, or lead. I happily walk my own path.

15/3/09 1:30 AM  
Anonymous duCan said...

"The NN is the cupcake."

So true!.

The day I grasped what my NN was asking of me I realized that my SS was my problem. I went to work incorporating the polarities. It is not easy to love unconditionally. I screamed at the universe and cried over the disappointments. But with the help of the Aquarian detachment I am able to do it relationship by relationship. I know what my NN requires of me in this life time and I try my best to give it.

15/3/09 1:44 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Our pleasures are unique to each of us and are based on billions of messages in our brains. I find few who share mine, so I was especially pleased when chris resonated with the same lines in my poem that I did. I'm singular in my musical and literary tastes and rarely follow the crowd, but that's the good part. When I do find that connection it's genuine. Aquarians are off beat and quirky so I'm never surprised with their tastes. Pisces is not as odd, and often goes for the more sentimental and dreamy.

I don't know if you are familiar with the work of photographer, Diane Arbus, who was fascinated with the freaks of life. I revisited her and discovered that she was a Pisces with lots of planets in Aquarius, including the moon. She was deep into the despair of living and committed suicide. It's interesting to see the different ways these advanced plants manifest. None of them are right or wrong. All facets of life are worth noting. The problem we face is in our lack of confidence, I think, and the abandonment of our genuine selves in the face of outside pressure.

As an artist, I struggle with the pleasing and the not pleasing in terms of full expression. When I do it for myself, I tend to go into the abstract, which is neither here nor there.

Taste in blogs has endless varaiations. I don't read any of them, since there is too much input for me.

15/3/09 1:49 AM  
Blogger jm said...

The NN is rewarding, no doubt about it. It's great that you're able to direct your destiny, duCan.

15/3/09 1:51 AM  
Blogger jm said...

And wouldn't you know it???? No wonder we're here. As we speak, Mars is passing from Aquarius to Pisces. the 29th degree.

15/3/09 1:54 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Pisces is the most misunderstood sign in the zodiac and I've been meaning to go into it but then I think better of it. It covers all experience so unconditional love is a tiny speck. Unconditional hate is also valid. It's equally negative, covering degradation, torture, imprisonment, despair and every horrible experience you can think of. None of the signs are good or bad.

Pisces compassion can turn to cruelty and sadism just as easily, as in the case of Pisces Adolph Eichmann. The search for oneness in the universe was, of course, personified by Albert Einstein.

But an understanding of the vastness of the sign is a good idea for any astrology enthusiast. It takes a huge mental expansion to grasp it. The judgement of good and bad is the most important thing to be dropped, the real lesson of Pisces. It is what it all is.

Unity with life means accepting all experience. It is not the divine ecstasy so revered, necessarily. It's just as much divine agony. Once that's understood, the choices perhaps can be made more easily. Positive and negative have no meaning in Pisces land. They all happen at once. All vital to life.

15/3/09 2:12 AM  
Anonymous DuCan said...

I do possess those offbeat quirky traits JM and as an amateur photographer I really look up to Diane Arbus. My heart breaks over her tragic loves and life. I also love quirky offbeat people like Woody Allen. But I am in your salon to learn not to talk about myself. I really enjoy and marvel at your wide range of knowledge and would love to hear you play one day.:o)

15/3/09 2:14 AM  
Anonymous duCan said...

Unity with life means accepting all experience. It is not the divine ecstasy so revered, necessarily. It's just as much divine agony. Once that's understood, the choices perhaps can be made more easily.

You're on fire tonight JM. RIght on.

Accepting it all. Allowing it to wash over me. No saint, no sinner. Taking nothing personally not even myself.
Devoid of self importance, one of my Pluto lessons.

15/3/09 2:27 AM  
Blogger jm said...

Ducan, please talk about yourself. It's the way I learn and it's far far far better than talking about the famous on today's stage.

It was interesting how she came in at this time. I'm torn between the revealing honesty of artists like Arbus and the search for the beautiful coverup. I lean towards the beautiful but it can be cloying. I'm definitely not like Arbus, but the sentimental in music is tricky.

I ran across a photographer named William Gedny who really caught my eye. He was in the Arbus vein but not quite as cruel. There's more sympathy in his work and a stark beauty in the honesty.

I also love the purely beautiful, or shall I say pretty, as my blog shows. It's hard to say where truth lies.

My favorite artists don't draw that line. The genius is in expressing both as an enigma. Very hard to do.

15/3/09 2:28 AM  
Anonymous DuCan said...

Thank you Jm for allowing me to share with you tonight.

RU is the best!

You started something good.

15/3/09 2:30 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I did suddenly light up!!

No saint, no sinner.

Exactly.

The self importance is a lesson some need to learn, coming from too much humility. The beauty of astrology is that it shows us clearly how no one is the same as any other.

People with lots of Pisces and Aquarius perhaps were monarchs and self aggrandized types before, so they are melting into the collective. Others, have to learn to step into the spotlight and learn superiority. It's so unique in each case.

15/3/09 2:34 AM  
Anonymous DuCan said...

Never heard of William Gedny but I will look him up.
I admire the works of Man Ray and Heinrich Hoffmam.

The beauty of astrology is that it shows us clearly how no one is the same as any other.

You are right once again. Because every moment is different and unique which transcends into us individually.

Good night you raven haired beauty. To quote your dear friend Tseka:o) LOL

15/3/09 2:45 AM  
Blogger jm said...

You're welcome, duCan.

Now that we are so deep into Pisces it's worth noting what's ahead with Uranus leaving and why the question of torture is so important along with the 29 Pisces of the Iraq chart. The deepest degradation surfaced during the war and it remains. I also think the episode in Gaza is part of it, which our country sanctioned. We've been doing this all throughout our history. is the stock market more important than what we do to people around the world?

As you can see, it's not going away. Do we let it slip back into it's undercover spot, or do we grapple with our behavior now in the next year?

I think dxp brought up a great point. The crowd was celebrating the closing of the torture prison, but I doubt that it will be that easy to slip it under the rug. Can we continue to follow the swagger and ignore the deeper issues in our country? I'm not so sure the time will allow that. So I think we are gradually entering a more somber and serious stage where the rock star escapades won't work as well.

People want a good life in a good country, but they have to be willing to face the consequences of their actions head on. In Pisces that can be done theoretically.

15/3/09 2:45 AM  
Blogger jm said...

LOL! Raven haired beauty!

I like Man Ray too.

15/3/09 2:46 AM  
Anonymous duCan said...

JM, I made a big boo boo last night. I most certainly do not admire the work of Heinrich Hoffmann.((
I must have been asleep when I wrote that.

I meant the wonderful Heinrich Zille.

Sorry about that.

15/3/09 11:54 AM  
Blogger chiron said...

Yes Dxp, Hillbuzz is one of my favorites also, simply because I if I am in one of my moods, I gravitate towards clever, bitchy, gay humor. Wonder why? :) Can't be seriously reflective all the time. It begins to hurt. So..
My favorite recent comment by 'the boys'......"Bill Richardson is one of the most terrible people we’ve ever personally met. We would list him as THE most terrible, but it’s hard for even him to displace Claire McCaskill from her perch atop “The List” of Terrible People, because Claire McCaskill is, indeed, the most Terrible Person of all, but also because Richardson smells like freshly made curly fries from Arby’s, and that’s one of those olfactory zings that sends us back to happy memories in and around the suburbs of Ohio (where Arby’s is a beloved highlight of any week)." ROTFLMAO

Old souls, interesting, you know that the nodes indicate prior lives. JM for what its worth, I think that old souls are attracted to this site. I wonder why. (I am just filled with wonder this morning.)

15/3/09 12:16 PM  
Anonymous DuCan said...

In January I visited Palm Springs where I saw an exhibition of Robert Mapplethorpe's work at the PS Museum.

While I was taking in Mapplethorpe's extraordinary works of art I couldn't help recalling how outraged I was at the late Senator, Jesse Helms (R) who called for cuts to the National Arts Endowment Fund.

Jesse Helms did not want funding to go to the NAEF because of Mapplethorpe whom he accused of photographing nude men.

There are 'terrible ones' in both parties.

Mapplethorpe was a gifted artist.

15/3/09 1:58 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I have one photo of Hoffmann somewhere in my collection, duCan, but I can't remember it. Zille I don't think I know.

I'm going to have to agree on Richardson, Chiron! He just oozed awfulness. So obvious. I'm a dyed in the wool iconoclast and I like that trait in me.

My naughty side is certainly intact, and the thing that drives me nuts, speaking of south nodes, is how I pull it in because of disapproval. They don't like me anyway. I can't seem to master that. Such is the way of the SN. Maybe you can keep me on track! Bitching is much better than torturing and murdering and they go along with that quite enthusiastically now. Each to his own. Oh, I know, I can rename it ... commenting accurately with displeasure.

I have held to the idea that the SN is past lives and I read it that way. The interesting thing is how those lives also repeat within this one. All the negative SN behaviors go on from the beginning. I wonder if all out lives come back in that way.

Yup, chiron, filled with wonder. You are wonderful.

What a thought. Old souls around daily. No "wonder" I'm so interested in what everyone has to say.

15/3/09 2:04 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Yes, there are terrible ones in both parties. There are terrible ones everywhere. We all have those traits but we stuff them inside for social approval. It's interesting how some don't do that and yet they get applauded and paid for their hate. Maybe they are acting out our collective hate and fear, and maybe that's actually good. Better than everyone acting out their impulses. I might have to rethink my aversion to politicians being such creeps.

I don't think I can vote again. I broke my pledge to the forces of good, but I think I'll be forgiven for my infraction. More easily forgiven than rejecting the latest and greatest. I know who to answer to.

15/3/09 2:11 PM  
Anonymous ducan said...

I am sure you will love Zille JM. He is virtually unknown outside of Germany - photographed Berlin street live through a social activist's lens. But he also photographed festivals and social events.

15/3/09 2:16 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Jesse Helms did not want funding to go to the NAEF because of Mapplethorpe whom he accused of photographing nude men.

Yet the crowd approves of funding to Israel to murder Palestinians whilst criticizing the likes of Helms. Or torturing under a new name with a dazzling smile. And throw in a few Afghanis while they're at it. As long as there is too much to consume at the cost of lives around the world, eveything's a-ok. The hypocrisy in this world never ceases to disturb me, but such is the way of the world in general. I don't know why I came this time. They don't care. Well, a few do. My hope.

I could never understand why people don't see themselves. My other hope is that they do but aren't revealing it. My dream.

15/3/09 2:21 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I will order Zille from the library today.

15/3/09 2:22 PM  
Blogger jm said...

B&W photography was my first choice in my artistic pursuit, then I decided on film making. But at the last minute I changed to music and ended up with Tim Hardin's group in Woodstock before going on to my own music.

I probably would have liked photography since it can be done solo and it's quiet. And it doesn't require live performance before an audience. But my Saturn in Leo 5 triumphed and made me face the audience. It's certainly laced with problems but the live theatrical experience is unique in its opening up of life's dimensions. The world is live theater every day, but without the attentiveness. Attention must breed great experience.

The great Thespian is my hero in theory with its face expressing every nuance of human experience, its body nimble, and the voice. The full human voice in its glory.

The came the microphone. Progress and all. But I love that contraption, I admit it.

15/3/09 2:49 PM  
Blogger dxp said...

"Yup, chiron, filled with wonder. You are wonderful." Ditto!

There is so much going on in this thread!

I like Hillbuzz because they are contrarian, and very compassionate towards women. I see gay rights, women's rights and children's rights as connected. And I think all are more than subtly important to a healthy culture. Hillbuzz guys are a bit too hard on Michelle sometimes tho. She is in a no win position, tho oddly, my intuition says that she is really the drive towards political power in the couple. He is more a symbol of how so many feel, emotionally, about themselves. He (literally) embodies a clash of race and culture, a seeking and a wounding. Seeking a vision. Unfortunately IMO that is not the best choice for our top executive at this point. We really need vision and the fight to achieve it. My favorite political site of the moment is TalkLeft where the commenters actually do debate and many are extremely bright and informed with a few as experts in fields such as finance, banking, legal issues. I like learning things.

I too really like hearing the personal - so very informative. I've always been interested in communication between humans - "interest" - more like a passionate obsession. It is one reason I've followed internet communication for the past few years. It is very unbodied which is odd and reveals levels and layers of people that are not often there in face to face communication. For example, a number of years ago I frequented an art criticism site and got into a protracted debate over some art issues with one man who really threw his successful career weight around and was extremely narrow minded and was a bully. I was the only one who would debate him. We really went at it. I, of course, 'lost' with him calling me names. I looked him up on a visit to Chicago, to make friends with him (since I don't mind disagreeing with someone), and met him face to face and he was strangely mild and timid in person. It was very revealing to me.

All the political sites are interesting but seem to navigate the surface of things which is why I'm so glad to find this site and y'all. There was recently a discussion on TalkLeft regarding fear and greed as driving forces in the economy. How interesting to think that Pluto is leaving optimistic Jupiter (greed) and is settling into Saturn (fear). In view of that, answering fear with a return to greed will not work, Pluto has moved on. A new solution will need to evolve.

DuCan - I remember being pretty pissed at Jessie Helms. But also at that time (was it Froenmeyer as director?) the direction of the NEA was confrontational and in a way preferred that to funding organizations. Deserving organizations. The backlash was predictable. Maplethorpe was incredibly gifted - an amazing artist. But some of his work was also shocking and extremely violent- the knives come to mind. Serrano (Piss Christ) was not very bright and his thinking behind his work simplistic. What was the NEA thinking? It saw itself as the discoverer of the genius of the age (the curator's conceit), and maybe it was, but one question is: Is that a good function of governmental granting?

The discussion of the nodes is interesting for me since I just cannot make sense of mine - all sorts of contradictions.

15/3/09 2:53 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Interesting, dxp, as always. You have a unique slant. I love your comments.

I don't like Michelle. Her SN in Capricorn does indicate that she is the political power and she is as controlling as it gets. Dictator territory. Her children are afraid of her. I saw that in my cousins who had a controlling Cap father. But the SN is leaving that behind and it is truly a no-win for her. She should be in social services with cancer NN and Saturn in Aquarius, if anything in society. She can't do it from the WH no matter how hard she tries. He has Saturn in Cap so he is getting into the system. He wants the approval of the wealthy and he will do anything to get it. So everybody can park vision in the lot for now.

Seeking a vision. Unfortunately IMO that is not the best choice for our top executive at this point.

You are absolutely right. "seeking" is the exact word. His Red and Blue America didn't cut it and he will have to dig much much deeper with his Saturn retro in he 12th. After he's gone from here. Meanwhile on the ranch ....

This tells the story.

Fantastic story about your art guy. I agree that the lack of face to face is very revealing. Also the smells. We judge an incredible amount by smell.
I am fascinated by the direct mind to mind connection. I got exasperated with the blogs and stopped reading except for one anarchist-socialist site, but that comes and goes. They are interesting at times. The divine love overfed enlightened from a book crowd gets to me the most. That's when I need a break. They know not with their open cruelty they believe is disguised.

All the political sites are interesting but seem to navigate the surface of things which is why I'm so glad to find this site and y'all.

My feeling too. People stab one another with comments at great velocity without actually listening and responding with mindfulness. Fear drives them to go so fast not believing that anyone really cares what they say, and you know what? That's probably true. The in-depth exchange is what gives dignity to human intercourse and that's what I'm a champion of. We are all important given a chance. I can't take the bedlam and pain of the blogs comments for long - the staccato - and yet, occasionally a great one appears to make it all worth it.

In view of that, answering fear with a return to greed will not work, Pluto has moved on. A new solution will need to evolve.

I talk about this all the time and still there is more to say. I wish more would get into the depth of this. Then we could advance rather than wait for these unfortunate creatures to lead us out. Ain't gonna happen. Glad to hear this about Talk Left. There are some difficult lessons ahead on this.

The nodes are impossibly contradictory. Your mention of the "swagger" speaks volumes about your South. You are especially attuned to that. I'd like to explore it further.

15/3/09 3:32 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I'm not a fan of violence in art. It's supposed to reveal, but most of the time I think it ends up glorifying it like the books and movies do. The obsession with violence is evolutionary, I think, and I do believe humans are trying to figure it out. The place of art in all of this is still a mystery to me. But I've never consumed violence when I didn't have to. Humanity can't seem to get enough. Maybe if they went on a diet they would lose some of their appetite for it.

15/3/09 3:42 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

Maybe if they went on a diet they would lose some of their appetite for it.

I somehow doubt it, unfortunately.

Coming up for air from the beeswax and dyes to skim the thread and ask a question from left field. jm, did you ever locate that Jim Henson movie The Dark Crystal that we talked about?

15/3/09 3:56 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I think the teacher I mentioned taught me the grace of listening to others as we did all year. 13 of us. Or my natural propensity encouraged her. I think that's one of our greatest sorrows. The basic belief that no one honestly cares what we say. They're thinking of what they will say next for impact. So the speed remains where people don't stay long enough to find out the truth of whether or not people care. People want to, I think. We're just not taught how. It's a manners thing that is above the Miss Manners system. The one site I read might not be great in content consistently, but the time and attention given to each poster is unique, no matter now furious the moment is or how many are there. They don't push one another. They take their time. It's a certain undefinable graciousness that's either there or it isn't. It probably can be learned. I don't know. I think self confidence is involved.

So often the sheer number of comments is the yardstick, and that's related to violence and panic usually. The hottest news. The confident can take the latest news and make it a work of art in commentary. With fluidity and rhythm in the dance of conversation.

Plus, people are actually interesting given the chance. Within one sentence are a million ideas.

And what's the hurry? We're never going to get there, really. Might as well be here.

15/3/09 4:03 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I think you're right about the violence, joe.

Great news! The beeswax!

This is really weird. I got the dvd from the library and it wouldn't run. So I'll have to get another copy!

I'm anti-movie again, but I'll relent soon enough.:)

15/3/09 4:05 PM  
Anonymous duCan said...

dpx wrote:
the knives come to mind. Serrano (Piss Christ) was not very bright and his thinking behind his work simplistic.

I don't have a clue what you mean by the above. I found the paragraph very confusing to comprehend.

I am talking about Mapplethorpe not Serrano! I am talking about the way Jesse Helmes not only attacked but singled out Mapplethorpe in a self righteous manner.

I would like to make myself very clear. I do not condone violence, knives, killings or any such dastardly acts in art, music or in any way shape or form in our society.
I am a 100 percent peace loving creative person.

I am very sorry if you misunderstood me. dpx

15/3/09 4:30 PM  
Anonymous duCan said...

DXP
I had to mention the NEP to make my point about Mapplethorpe.
You wrote:
What was the NEA thinking? It saw itself as the discoverer of the genius of the age (the curator's conceit), and maybe it was, but one question is: Is that a good function of governmental granting?

I am not interested in the above. I am not interested in the NEP's politics or it's curator's conceit.

I am only interested in the way an artist was attached by Jesse Helmes. That's all.

15/3/09 4:49 PM  
Blogger dxp said...

I'm sorry DuCan!! - I probably should have been clearer! Maplethorpe was an amazing photographer of nudes, but he also photoed very disturbing sexual scenes. I have one book where he had photos of knives inserted in men's penises. There were other props as well. These were photoed with his usual brilliance and they were very disturbing. I hid the book so my daughter and her friends could not find it. He was not all that secretive about this side of him and I think the conservative backlash was about this work more than his simple elegant beautiful and attracting work. Maplethorpe was a very complex man. This is what I was referring to. Also, conservatives seem to be particularly nasty when there is any real exploration of homosexuality or women. Both are very threatening. Even so, the darkest of Mapelthorpe's work is challenging for just about everyone.

Did not mean to misunderstand you.... please forgive my mistake!

15/3/09 5:01 PM  
Blogger dxp said...

I really am sorry DuCan. I feel like I've bungled this. I'm way too outspoken, and I was too rash with my earlier comments and did not take into consideration where you were coming from enough.

15/3/09 6:48 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I never saw the sexually violent ones and I have feelings about these things maybe being better off in the area of taboo. I'm against censorship, of course, but I'm also uncomfortable with broadcasting these things in an already too violent world. I don't want to see them in my daily goings on. And they're everywhere. The way people feed on the images disturbs me even more than the images themselves. Maybe out of sight, out of mind isn't such a bad idea, in the prurient feeding trough we live in. How much of the monstrous side of life do we need? Does exposure create more desire? The dark side is what it is. Maybe it should come into the light sparingly.

You are right, dxp, in that conservatives are uncomfortable with their sexuality in all their moralizing. The same way liberals moralize about equality yet they are some of the most prejudiced I've seen. The last primary proved that.

Freedom of expression comes with responsibility. And perhaps some respect for others' senses.

15/3/09 7:21 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Looking it at objectively, the exposure of the man's photos is equal to the exposure of Helmes' fears. You can't have one without the other. I think even worse is the behavior of our politicians that includes endorsement of these prurient rituals - being overlooked, accepted, and voted for. If the smile and party affiliation is right, the darkness is right.

How can we pick and choose with such blatant hypocrisy? Where are the leaders? The adults here?

15/3/09 7:28 PM  
Blogger dxp said...

Thank you JM for your thoughts. I've really wondered about this subject. An amazing art historian wrote a book about Hans Belmer. He was an artist who became famous for his photos of women tied in ropes. The ropes squished their naked bodies into unrecognizable monstrous shapes. They are horribly disturbing to look at. The author posited that the artist was simply revealing the violence in his early century German upbringing. And I heard her lecture on it. But I wonder if an artist simply 'exposes' is that not a cop out? Where is the resistance? Is this not just another reiteration of the same violent mentality? But in the larger picture, I see your point - this is a full flowering (so to speak) of a negative archetypal force. But is that in itself imbalanced? The concept of archetypes is that they embody a multiplicity, not just positive or negative. Just thinking out loud.

15/3/09 7:51 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It really makes no difference who snaps what or who shoots what as long as humanity hungers for violence, especially during peace. I would like to know why. What purpose it serves. Why do we, the prosperous, pay others to hurt our bodies in this society, while the others invade villages and do the same? What are we doing exactly?

Are we imitating Aztecs, getting our hearts cut out? The Mayans would have loved Mapplethorpe.

I've also noticed that bravery is associated with war wounds as well as 1000 surgeries and all human traumas enacted. Very few dare go to the real motivations while lusting after the images.

15/3/09 7:54 PM  
Blogger jm said...

This is a very important subject for me, dxp. I am so alone with my questions and I've been bothered since childhood.

But I wonder if an artist simply 'exposes' is that not a cop out? Where is the resistance? Is this not just another reiteration of the same violent mentality?

My question exactly. I was going to say it. I blame the artist just as much. The whole thing is hideous - how it's justified and glorified.

They also hide behind the archetype argument. I just want to know where this stuff belongs and why it seems to have dominance in the human psyche. It's not because it's hidden, because it isn't.

15/3/09 7:59 PM  
Blogger jm said...

It gets overwhelming. The people who complain about some fool Republican being the cause of the evil in the world are the ones who look at the same bloody images over and over and over on their TVs ad nauseum. A killing spree makes their hearts beat with pleasure and anticipation for the next view of the bloody scene. I also mentioned how they lust for blood in war if it hurts the Republican's chances for election. The twisted path of our shadowed archetypes is impossible to follow.

If just for one brief moment in the universe, everyone could share responsibility, maybe I would breathe a sigh of relief.

15/3/09 8:10 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I'm pretty angry about this Gitmo thing but I knew it was going to happen this way. It was wrong in the last 8 years, and now it's going to be accepted. What is this saying? That torture is OK. It always was in the name of acquisition. Maybe it's better if it goes on in secret. I always thought so. A certain amount of S&M is a given in the human family. Exposure sure hasn't made any difference other than to give them pictures to gawk at. Where on earth is the protest? The karmic bank is getting heavy. Maybe after the other banks fail some rectification will come.

15/3/09 8:18 PM  
Blogger dxp said...

I have had an email friend from Australia for the past several years. I think the violence of the USA is perhaps a secret here, but it is not a secret everywhere. The torture of the past 8 years is a boil coming to a head. It maybe, maybe, maybe could be burst. Or diminished. Most (honestly I think most) in the USA want that.

There is so much more in your comments to stimulate thought and feeling in your readers! For me, I will ponder. Tired tonite. Sleeping on something might bring the dream time into it and that state seems to actually open possibilities.

15/3/09 8:59 PM  
Anonymous duCan said...

dxp you wrote:
I think the conservative backlash was about this work more than his simple elegant beautiful and attracting work.

It is this elegant, beautiful, attractive work of Mapplethorpe that is on display at PS. It is his Portraits Collection and there will not be any placard-carrying protesters at Palm Springs Art Museum.

I am with you- I do not appreciate the dark side of Art that is shocking, I never knew he was prone to extreme violence because I never saw those pictures or books until you mentioned them in your post today.

I was under the impression that he was singled out because he photographed nude men. I did not realize that his work was violent.

Let's not forget that his flowers and portraits are great.

The exhibition in Palm Springs is edgy but not disturbing.
Thank you dxp.

15/3/09 9:12 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I agree, dxp. I think most want a diminishing of the torture. I hope it comes.

Sleep well on those possibilities.

15/3/09 9:16 PM  
Anonymous NGO said...

People stab one another with comments at great velocity without actually listening and responding with mindfulness.
I'm not a fan of violence in art.

But what is the difference between violence in art movies TV, torture at gitmo saying people are terrible criticizing the way they dress, school yard bullies cliques.
and this.
I don't like Michelle. Her SN in Capricorn does indicate that she is the political power and she is as controlling as it gets. Dictator territory. Her children are afraid of her.

."Bill Richardson is one of the most terrible people we’ve ever personally met. We would list him as THE most terrible, but it’s hard for even him to displace Claire McCaskill from her perch atop “The List” of Terrible People, because Claire McCaskill is, indeed, the most Terrible Person of all,

All of it is cruelty.

16/3/09 7:06 AM  
Blogger jm said...

I don't like Michelle. Her SN in Capricorn does indicate that she is the political power and she is as controlling as it gets. Dictator territory. Her children are afraid of her.

That is not cruelty. And it's not violence. If you read up on Michelle you will discover that she rules the family with dictatorial precision, and their friends say so. It's not necessarily bad perhaps for them. It is for me. I don't like it.

."Bill Richardson is one of the most terrible people we’ve ever personally met.

Neither is that. There actually were some cruel things in that comment but you missed it, ngo.

Cruelty goes into different spot than these words go. My comment on Michelle is fact. The one on Richardson is feeling with no particular cruel barbs.

16/3/09 3:43 PM  
Blogger jm said...

Let me add, that I have cruelty within. And I am very not-nice at times. That will remain.

16/3/09 3:45 PM  
Blogger jm said...

I also think it's healthy for you to point these things out.

16/3/09 3:47 PM  

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